View Full Version : Assembly Member Mike Feuer responds to my email:

04-05-2007, 4:21 PM
Here is what I sent to him a few months ago:
>Mr. Feuer,
>It has recently come to my attention that you are attempting to propose a
>bill that has in the past failed due to the unrealistic demands that the
>legislation requires.
>This is specifically in regards to the "micro stamping" of guns.
>Numerous technical issues and bypasses have been shown to illustrate how not
>only is this currently not technically feasible, but how easily a criminal
>could bypass this.
>The intent of your legislation of course is a very noble cause: to curtail
>the criminal element and allow law enforcement one extra tool at their
>disposal to solve violent crimes.
>However noble this ideal is, it is not founded in reality. Maybe in the
>future this will be possible (like in the sci-fi movie "Judge Dredd") but
>currently it is not.
>First off, let me explain to you what a criminal is. A Criminal is an
>individual who acts without regard or care to the law. Such an individual
>ignores the laws and as such, a law cannot prevent a criminal from acting.
>It requires enforcement to curtail a criminal and enforce the laws. Laws
>don't enforce themselves, it is up to the law enforcement officers of this
>state to do so.
>The purpose of your proposal is such that each cartridge casing and each
>bullet would have a unique "stamp" emplaced upon it so that the bullet
>could be traced back to a single gun and thus a suspect could be cross
>referenced and discovered.
>However since such an individual would be presumed, if they were in fact the
>suspect, to be a criminal and since criminals by definition do not adhere to
>the law, what would stop them from altering their firearm such that no such
>micro-stamp would be left, and thus your lengthy and costly to the citizens
>of California legislation would be totally negated?
>All it takes is a 50 file from your local hardware store to remove the
>micro engraving or alter it such that it would not be recognizable in your
>proposed database. However a law abiding citizen would have yet another hoop
>to jump though to remain legal.
>By enacting yet another form of regulation upon a firearm, California legal
>firearm owners would have even more difficulty in legally obtaining a
>firearm, yet this would not hinder a criminal at all.
>Do you honestly believe that criminals go to the gun store and buy guns? How
>absurd! Of course not. If the DoJ and ATF were doing their job, the criminal
>would not be able to buy said gun due to their background check.
>So if that is the case, why do criminals have so many guns? That is because
>there are illegal guns smuggled into the country from places such as Mexico.
>When I was 14 I witnessed my first firearm at my Jr. High School (Santiago
>Middle School, Orange) where I saw another student trying to sell a fully
>automatic Mac-10. Fully automatic weapons have been regulated since 1930's by
>the NFA act. So since this was highly illegal, why was it at a MIDDLE
>The answer is because criminals do not follow our laws. No law abiding
>citizen would own or utilize said firearm, otherwise they would be a
>CRIMINAL not a law abiding citizen.
>The firearm that I saw was illegal. And most likely smuggled into our
>country. Is it the fault of the manufacturer that their product is misused?
>If so, then every automobile maker in the world is responsible for millions
>of homicides.
>So I must ask you who are you against?
>Criminals or your fellow law abiding citizens? Because of your legislation,
>it is apparent that you do not value highly your fellow law abiding citizens
>who are firearm enthusiast. And you wish to bind us with useless
>restrictions that serve no actual purpose to curtail criminals.
>We, the law abiding citizens of California, ARE NOT CRIMINALS. Do not treat
>us as such in your legislation.
>We have enough gun laws. We have so many gun laws, that if I were to ask our
>Department of Justice: Firearms division a single question at 3 different
>times, I would get a different answer each time.
>Shooting people is illegal. Using a gun in a crime is illegal. Having a
>non-registered firearm in your possession is illegal.
>Have these stopped criminals at all? No!
>We need better enforcement of our laws, not more laws. Laws MEAN NOTHING to
>a criminal. Criminals fear the Law Enforcement however. And it is only the
>Law Enforcement that can stop criminals.

His response to me today:
Thank you for contacting me regarding Assembly Bill 1471, the Crime Gun
Identification Act of 2007, a measure that would require all semiautomatic
handguns manufactured after January 1, 2010 sold in California, be equipped with
microstamping technology.

I introduced AB 1471 because of the 2,400 homicides committed annually in
California (2004 Dept. of Justice data) more than 60% are committed with
handguns, of which no arrest is made in approximately 45% of these crimes.

Microstamping is not an expensive technology. It would cost approximately 50
cents per gun and causes no inconvenience to law-abiding gun owners. AB 1471
would not require any new permitting or licensing requirements.

While we have differing viewpoints on this legislation, I believe that Los
Angeles County Sheriff Lee Baca and Los Angeles Police Captain William Bratton
would only support bills that would help to solve crimes, and that is why I am
proud to have their support, and the support of numerous other law enforcement
agencies and officials in California.


Mike Feuer
Assemblymember, 42nd District

So using his own number, he is passing this law to stop 2400x60%x45%=648 criminals.

But wait, it gets better! According to the "City Journal" (http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_1_the_illegal_alien.html)
In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

So how exactly is Mr. Feuer's bill going to successfully identify the weapon of these 648 homicides when 95% of said homicides involve an illegal alien?

Can an illegal alien buy a gun from a gun store that has this new microstamping on it? Where are these criminal ilegal aliens getting their guns... oh yeah...

Someone needs to pull his head out of his ***. Those aren't roses he's smelling.

04-05-2007, 4:30 PM
Criminals will just start using revolvers - or filing off the microstamp - or not cleaning their gun.

Law enforcement supports measures like this because it has the net effect of decreasing gun ownership (less vendors will be willing to sell to California).

04-05-2007, 4:31 PM
i recieved the same e-mail. i know this bill will do nothing in crime prevention and or solving.

04-05-2007, 4:54 PM
Obviously this won't work. And they don't want it to work. Since it won't work, they'll state that additional gun controls are needed. And so on and so on and ..........

04-05-2007, 5:04 PM
Well, of course this bill won't work. It's an indirect form of banning handguns and eventually eradicating gun owning culture in California, as has already happened in New York, etc. Most manufacturers will pull out of this market rather than mess around with this stuff. None of this is about crime. Mark Feuer knows this.

Technical Ted
04-05-2007, 5:09 PM
Someone needs to pull his head out of his ***. Those aren't roses he's smelling.
I believe the technique is similar to that described in a recent thread about tick removal. Gently grasp Mr. Feuer about the neck with tweezers and pull slowly.

04-05-2007, 5:27 PM
Your math is correct but your logic is off. It won't stop 648 criminals, it will only lead to identification of 648 handguns assuming 100% of handguns used by criminals have the microstamp BS. 648 murders will still occur and I'm pretty sure none will be solved with the help of BS technology because criminals don't do DROS.

By "your" I mean the bill's sponser. There is no intention of solving crime here, just harrassment of law abiding gun owners.

04-05-2007, 6:07 PM
Don't try to reason this, guys. We all know what they are after-it's the guns. Anyway. Anyhow. Screw him.

04-05-2007, 6:33 PM
Idiot. How exactly does he know that microstamping technology is not expensive when it doesn't even exist yet?

04-05-2007, 7:08 PM
"While we have differing viewpoints on this legislation, I believe that Los
Angeles County Sheriff Lee Baca and Los Angeles Police Captain William Bratton would only support bills that would help to solve crimes, ..."My stock in Bratton just drop several points.
I like the math here.... "2400x60%x45%=648 criminals." but I believe the 648 criminal number is actually even lower since single shooter multiple homicides have not been figure in. Even more depressing to spend all this effort and funds for a handful of chicken sh#@'s.

Bad Voodoo
04-05-2007, 9:01 PM
I received the same form letter response today. I'm at the end of my rope with professional politicians.


04-05-2007, 9:09 PM
The only cops Feuer & crew could find were Bratton & Baca.

Not a single line sherriff's association, POA or other organization like PORAC did anything else other than laugh this away.

From what I hear, it has zero LEO traction. It won't even get casual AG support.

M. Sage
04-05-2007, 9:30 PM
Meh, I was annoyed, so....

Mr. Feuer,

I'm writing you about your ideas on adding a requirement for "microstamping" devices for pistols sold in California. I'd like to know what research you've done that proves or even suggests that this plan will only add a cost of fifty cents per pistol.

I'm also very interested in the math you use to justify this as far as how many crimes will be solved. This plan won't affect 100% of the 45% of the 65% that you mention (while you're at it, do the math on how few homicides that adds up to out of the total number...). It won't be failsafe in solving homicides. A couple of things for you to think about:

Criminals use STOLEN or otherwise ILLEGALLY OBTAINED weapons in most instances. How is microstamping going to help track a weapon that doesn't have a paper trail back to the shooter? Hmm? Please give me an answer for that.

I put it to you that common sense (well, for anybody who knows the first thing about manufacturing) tells us that microstamping WOULD be an expensive technology. Have you any CLUE how much the tooling to make this stuff happen will cost? How hard it is to work things like this into the inside of a cylinder?

What about the other consequences? What happens if I buy a pistol with this technology? I decide that I want better accuracy, so I decide to change the barrel. I've just broken the law, right? If not, what if I decide to change the barrel AND the slide? The pistol's microstamping feature is gone.

In case you try to refute that, let me explain a basic fact about semi-automatic handguns. The only two parts of the pistol that the case touches are the slide at the rear of the case, and the chamber, which is integral to the barrel. The magazine is the only other thing that the cases touch, but that's not actually a part of the firearm, being designed to be removed under normal operation.

Slides can wear out or break. There are other reasons to change them - cosmetics, performance, etc. Barrels also can wear out and are also commonly replaced with upgraded versions for improved performance, or to change the caliber of the firearm.

This microstamping nonsense needs to end. It's just one more burden for hard-working, law-abiding Californians to bear while criminals won't be affected at all. It will cause many gun manufacturers to decide that the California market isn't worth the investment, since the tooling costs alone for this would be astronomical. Let me tell you, too, that any new tooling does NOT work right without many, many failed attempts, dialing it in, and then some much stricter than normal quality control while the bugs are worked out.

Does that add up to fifty cents per pistol?! No. Not a chance. Maybe in fantasy land, but not here in the real world.

Please, if you truly care about crime prevention, let's start going after the root causes of that crime - the socio-economic causes. Just look to the UK for how gun control laws don't work. They're working on knife control now, by the way. Who knows what's next? Fist control laws?

You cannot punish the majority of Californians who are law-abiding, good people for things that they haven't done.

You cannot punish them for the things they MIGHT do.

You cannot put restrictions on tools just because of the ways they MIGHT be abused.

Drop the microstamping idea. It's idiotic.

I've decided that venting at the elected morons is better than venting at my family and friends.

04-06-2007, 10:05 AM
Do understand why the freshman legislator Feuer is carrying this bill.

Do understand why most? all? other gun bills in CA are being carried by freshman legislators - it's because it's way too much grief for the more senior ones that have "learned". The senior guys let the junior guys take the flak.

This is a Brady-sponsored bill, where 'lobbyists' Mary Leigh Blek and her husband walk into legislators' offices and start screaming about dead babies, getting kicked out of several offices - including several Democrats'. (BTW, I'm using the term 'lobbyist' loosely since a real professional lobbyist would never conduct himself as such).

Bad Voodoo
04-06-2007, 10:24 AM
Do also understand that his responses are form letters. He's not reading your concerns because he doesn't *care* about them.


04-06-2007, 10:46 PM
Maybe we could send all these politicans to Iraq to solve their weapon related high murder rates.

04-06-2007, 11:03 PM
Bad Voodoo,

They do track numbers and if the vast majority of all his mail is against this bill he'll notice. That's usually what happens btw - anti-gun bills get more pro-gun response than the entirety of the rest of a a legislator's sponsorship slate.

We just have to bring the calls, emails, and faxes when its time.


04-07-2007, 10:30 PM
Criminals will just start using revolvers - or filing off the microstamp - or not cleaning their gun.

Why would they go through all that trouble when non-microstamped parts would be readily and lawfully available online and out of state? Heck, once a couple guys get busted I'm sure out of state handguns will become the standard in unlawful gun sales.

Bottom line: this bill will only really affect the desirability of california legal handguns on the blackmarket.