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ap3572001
02-28-2012, 8:07 AM
Quick question for an FFL.

COlt XSE is on the roster.

Say , Your costumer buys one on line, gun gets shipped to Your store, You open the box (Colt box with serial number of the gun , model etc) and You do see a Colt there with correct serial number and all ,BUT what You find in the box is something that WAS a Colt XSE at one time , but no longer is .

Can You complete the transaction?

What prevents You from filling everything out on the COLT XSE? After all , it is a COLT XSE.

Would like an opinion./

PS. The pistol in question DID sart its life as an ON ROSTER COLT XSE. I am using COLT as an example, we can take use any pistol for that.

kemasa
02-28-2012, 10:09 AM
There is no color only exemption to the roster OTHER than the manufacturer can write a letter and say that it is only a cosmetic difference AND THEN get it added to the roster and pay the money. The law is stupid and it is harassment, but it is still the law.

The simple answer is that the firearm is not what was certified and placed on the roster, therefore it should not be transferred as it does not match the information listed. Does the barrel length match? Does the color match? Does the caliber match? Does the name on the firearm match? How do you know that it has been changed? Would someone who is not familiar with that particular model know that it is not the same as when it was originally sold?

Perhaps no one will ever know, unless the person doing the transfer is a DOJ agent and the FFL is being tested.

ap3572001
02-29-2012, 7:44 AM
There is no color only exemption to the roster OTHER than the manufacturer can write a letter and say that it is only a cosmetic difference AND THEN get it added to the roster and pay the money. The law is stupid and it is harassment, but it is still the law.

The simple answer is that the firearm is not what was certified and placed on the roster, therefore it should not be transferred as it does not match the information listed. Does the barrel length match? Does the color match? Does the caliber match? Does the name on the firearm match? How do you know that it has been changed? Would someone who is not familiar with that particular model know that it is not the same as when it was originally sold?

Perhaps no one will ever know, unless the person doing the transfer is a DOJ agent and the FFL is being tested.

I understand . But isnt as Colt Series 80 ( ON ROSTER) 45acp, is STILL Colt Series 80 ON ROSTER pistol even AFTER it was totally worked over by Clark's or Novaks???

Isnt it INDEED a Colt Series 80 in .45ACP that is on CA roster?

If someone opens or buy's a gun shop , do they HAVE TO know how EVERY new and USED on roster pistols should look like?

kemasa
02-29-2012, 7:56 AM
It is an issue which is hard to deal with. If it does not match what is described, then it would not be on the list. If it was modified, most likely it would not be considered to be on the list. It is not clear, but the FFL can only transfer firearms which are on the list and there is nothing to help with ensuring that it really is on the list and what would cause a firearm on the list to not be able to be transferred due to changes.

Yes, FFLs are in a bad situation. For example, a Sig P229 SAS is on the list, but as it turns out that is the old version. The new version is marked SAS as well, not SAS2, but is not on the list. It is possible that a FFL could transfer the new version thinking that it was the old version.

I am not sure that there is any documentation to detail whether a firearm is still on the list if it was modified. It might be best to not ask either since it could cause problems.

DEPUTYBILL
02-29-2012, 8:03 AM
Would it be easier just to buy an on roster gun,then ship it to a gunsmith to have additions done? The way I understand the law is a person can ship to and a gunsmith can ship back a gun to its owner after the work is done. Then there is the SSE as well. It seems that to be in a non-gray area,the gun must be the exact gun listed on the roster.

kemasa
02-29-2012, 8:11 AM
Yes, it is much easier to buy a rostered model and then do what you want with it. There are no restrictions, other than making it into a so-called a-salt weapon, once you own it. This is how the SSE works since it exempts it from the roster, then you can do what you want, although the CA DOJ does not seem to like that.

Yes, the gun must be the exact gun listed on the roster. I am not sure how the CA DOJ would prove it since the person could change it after the fact, but there could be issues. To be honest, at times it can be hard enough to determine if the firearm is on the list without adding modifications into the picture. Some modifications are not obvious as well.

Colt-45
02-29-2012, 9:54 PM
I'm sure handguns with a very minuscule difference have been resisted "by mistake" of the FFL as something else.