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evol ways
02-28-2012, 6:51 AM
Hey guys been searching for my .308 AR and I have been looking into the LMT MWS in .308. Now only thing is I know they come standard I believe in a 16" barrel. Now I would like to have a 18" or even if possible 20" barrel. Do they offer these sizes? I didn't see anything on there website.

Thanks guys.

Black Majik
02-28-2012, 8:17 AM
Yes, they offer replacement barrels in 18" and 20".

BillyGoatMachine
02-28-2012, 8:28 AM
They are the bees knees. Why do you want the longer barrel? Mine's a ringer all the way out to 700y with the 16" barrel. Just haven't taken it further yet. Great choice by the way.

Moving Chicane
02-28-2012, 8:54 AM
Hey guys been searching for my .308 AR and I have been looking into the LMT MWS in .308. Now only thing is I know they come standard I believe in a 16" barrel. Now I would like to have a 18" or even if possible 20" barrel. Do they offer these sizes? I didn't see anything on there website.

Thanks guys.

I believe problemchild (forum member here) has an 18" barrel model; you might want to ask him any questions you might have. I believe he ordered it direct and had a local dealer deliver it to him.

SGGear
02-28-2012, 10:20 AM
You can buy direct from LMT but the wait period is long and your going to pay a premium price for it. Purchase the 16" chrome and buy a 20" SS barrel. In the end, you ll pay $100-200 more for both setup but you will have two barrels.

Dhena81
02-28-2012, 11:27 AM
I'd wait until they start shipping their new rail pattern to save a bit of weight or wait until the price of the older gen drops as a result.

HK Dave
02-28-2012, 11:29 AM
The LMT 308 is bad arsed. They do come in different barrel lengths, but they get really pricy.

I personally like the new rail patterned ones coming out more.

evol ways
02-28-2012, 11:33 PM
Thanks for the replies guys! Appreciate the help. Looked on thier web site and actually saw that they do offer them with the 18 & 20" barrel. Now I don't want to wait the 3-4 months if I go through them. Any where local that carries then near the bay area?

I think I'm just goin to get me the old version. I'm not to worried about the weight savings. Not going to be used for competition or anything.

Jpach
02-29-2012, 12:13 AM
Why exactly do you need 18" or 20"? The 16" will take you out to all practical ranges, and more.

If you absolutely must have the 18 or 20, then by all means get it. I'm just trying to help a fellow LMT MWS brother and let you know that the standard 16" will likely be more than enough for you.

If you have any other questions regarding the LMT MWS, feel free to ask.

evol ways
02-29-2012, 12:55 AM
Why exactly do you need 18" or 20"? The 16" will take you out to all practical ranges, and more.

If you absolutely must have the 18 or 20, then by all means get it. I'm just trying to help a fellow LMT MWS brother and let you know that the standard 16" will likely be more than enough for you.

If you have any other questions regarding the LMT MWS, feel free to ask.

I have always wanted a longer barrel rifle. I have a .223 with a 16" all ready and just feel like I would be happy with one.

One question. How does a BB take care of the ambi mag release?

Ruiner
02-29-2012, 1:50 AM
LMT disables the ambi mag release from the factory and installs a BB. Awesome rifle and well worth the wait. I was lucky that one was available locally at the time so I didn't wait long.

evol ways
02-29-2012, 3:22 AM
LMT disables the ambi mag release from the factory and installs a BB. Awesome rifle and well worth the wait. I was lucky that one was available locally at the time so I didn't wait long.

Do you know if LMT includes the stock ambi release?

problemchild
02-29-2012, 7:26 AM
Got the 18" SS here and I like it a lot. Its heavy though. With a 3x15 NF and bipod its 14.8lbs.

A comparison of my LMT 308 to my wifes DD 223.
http://youtu.be/-dmQbBTDj20


308 alone
http://youtu.be/GasJ-IX1H0E

Mstnpete
02-29-2012, 7:38 AM
18" barrel should work out fine for you.

Please let us know how you like the LMT 308 when you get it.

I was thinking of getting the Larue OBR 308 as well.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f245/amgguy/284564_227138630659652_130971230276393_674254_7337 674_n.jpg

bubbapug1
02-29-2012, 8:56 AM
Most bench rest rifles have 16" barrels...why do some think a longer barrel means more accuracy? That's flat out wrong. A longer barrel means more velocity, but also more oscillation, hence less accuracy.

Any mws will be fine. Its never going to be a bench rest rifle, or a dead on sniper rifle, but for a semi battle rifle its very good.

HK Dave
02-29-2012, 9:12 AM
18" barrel should work out fine for you.

Please let us know how you like the LMT 308 when you get it.

I was thinking of getting the Larue OBR 308 as well.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f245/amgguy/284564_227138630659652_130971230276393_674254_7337 674_n.jpg

Hey that's my exact setup! Minus the can. :(

seainc
02-29-2012, 9:52 AM
One I got from Riflegear has all original mag release parts in a bag.

Do you know if LMT includes the stock ambi release?

therealnickb
02-29-2012, 10:41 AM
Do you know if LMT includes the stock ambi release?

Mine did not.

I found the 16" barrel great to 200 yds. It's still very effective longer but the bullet drops like a rock after 250 IMO.

I will likely pick up a 20" barrel sooner or later.

Here's 10 rounds of match ammo at 50 yards with a fuzzy Eotech from bags. The rifle shoots better than I do for sure.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o105/nickb_bucket/CIMG0091.jpg
(not the bottom 2, they are from a different group of crap ammo & off hand)

RuggedJay
02-29-2012, 10:54 AM
20" barrel if shooting past 500. More velocity=less drop. 18" is an inbetween compromise for weight and handiness vs. velocity. They are heavy.

Ruiner
02-29-2012, 1:33 PM
Do you know if LMT includes the stock ambi release?

Mine didn't direct from LMT. The ambi release is present but disabled somehow. I havent taken it apart to see how.

Omega13device
02-29-2012, 10:20 PM
I found the 16" barrel great to 200 yds. It's still very effective longer but the bullet drops like a rock after 250 IMO.


If it's still very effective why do you care if the bullet drops? That's what scope adjustments are for.

BillyGoatMachine
02-29-2012, 10:41 PM
They are nice, but a bit too heavy for my liking. No big deal if you drive to the range and only shoot from the bench. However, if you want to move around with it, the weight (with scope, base/rings, BUIS, etc.) start to add up. I sold mine and replaced it with a 7.62 LaRue Predatar with 18" barrel. Just as accurate, but much lighter.

I take mine pig hunting without any problems, scoped and all. If you have any meat on your bones and a sling, you will be fine.

RuggedJay
03-01-2012, 12:06 AM
If it's still very effective why do you care if the bullet drops? That's what scope adjustments are for.

theres more room for error with a flatter trajectory. The further out you go the more your elevation has to be exactly just right to make impact. The more velocity and flatter trajectory helps a little bit up to a certain point.

alfred1222
03-01-2012, 12:13 AM
why not just buy a REPR??? it isnt that much more

therealnickb
03-01-2012, 6:24 AM
If it's still very effective why do you care if the bullet drops? That's what scope adjustments are for.

I missed a deer because I ranged it wrong. In that instance a longer barrel would have made up for my mistake.

As was said, a flatter trajectory gives more room for error.

csterl
03-01-2012, 7:42 AM
why not just buy a REPR??? it isnt that much more

MWS is a far superior platform to the REPR. Even though there have been some good reports of the REPR's accuracy there have also been many of reports of them performing poorly. The MWS is a rock solid platform with the ability to quickly change barrel length and caliber and has mostly outstanding reports when it comes to accuracy.

Omega13device
03-01-2012, 3:28 PM
I missed a deer because I ranged it wrong. In that instance a longer barrel would have made up for my mistake.

As was said, a flatter trajectory gives more room for error.

The flatter trajectory issues make sense - thanks.

I wonder though, how much of a difference 4" more barrel is going to make, compared to just switching to a cartridge known to have a flatter trajectory.

therealnickb
03-01-2012, 4:09 PM
The flatter trajectory issues make sense - thanks.

I wonder though, how much of a difference 4" more barrel is going to make, compared to just switching to a cartridge known to have a flatter trajectory.
If I remember correctly it is about 50' per second per inch loss.

I ran some comparisons last year with online ballistics calculators but I didn't keep any. Some of the guys here can probably do it in their heads, but there are a lot of variables.

What I saw was dramatic bullet drop after 250 yards with speeds produced by a 16" barrel. My field experience proved it to me. I think I was using a hornady superperformance gmx 150grn. I'll check it tonight & see if I can dig up the numbers I had.

Sniper3142
03-01-2012, 5:27 PM
Why exactly do you need 18" or 20"? The 16" will take you out to all practical ranges, and more.



Some folks like to shoot things FAR away. ;)

A 16 inch .308 is okay for stuff up close (say... 300-500 yards). But beyond that, a longer barrel and the added velocity it brings helps a lot. A good .308 rifle with a 20 inch barrel can throw bullets pretty darn far (1,000 yards+).

And with the LMT MWS, you have the option for a quick barrel change to an even better caliber, like 260 Rem or 6.5 Creedmore if you send it to the folks over at DBMG.

therealnickb
03-01-2012, 8:45 PM
The flatter trajectory issues make sense - thanks.

I wonder though, how much of a difference 4" more barrel is going to make, compared to just switching to a cartridge known to have a flatter trajectory.

K, the ammo I used was hornady custom sst 150gr. The box says 2820 fps.

I assume their fps estimate is with at least a 22" barrel.

Someone else can work the numbers but I'm pretty sure there is much more drop from a 16" barrel than a 20" beyond 250 yds.

Jpach
03-01-2012, 10:37 PM
Mine didn't direct from LMT. The ambi release is present but disabled somehow. I havent taken it apart to see how.

I had my upper and lower shipped to my FFL in separate pieces. All you have to do is punch out the roll pin and the ambi mag release comes right out. I wish I could have it in though!

Omega13device
03-03-2012, 8:06 AM
K, the ammo I used was hornady custom sst 150gr. The box says 2820 fps.

I assume their fps estimate is with at least a 22" barrel.

Someone else can work the numbers but I'm pretty sure there is much more drop from a 16" barrel than a 20" beyond 250 yds.

I did some searching and the consensus seems to be around 25fps per inch of barrel, although it really depends on the individual barrel.

I used the 25fps as an approximation and ran the Hornaday SST through Ballistic at 2820 and 2720 fps. Here are the results.

http://i44.tinypic.com/35m07zq.png

problemchild
03-03-2012, 8:34 AM
Yeah I dont believe that. I was tagging a steel plate at 650yds with a 3.5x acog in side gusting wind 25mph. FIRST HIT FIRST SHOT. I could have gone to 1000k with a more powerful scope.




Some folks like to shoot things FAR away. ;)

A 16 inch .308 is okay for stuff up close (say... 300-500 yards). But beyond that, a longer barrel and the added velocity it brings helps a lot. A good .308 rifle with a 20 inch barrel can throw bullets pretty darn far (1,000 yards+).

And with the LMT MWS, you have the option for a quick barrel change to an even better caliber, like 260 Rem or 6.5 Creedmore if you send it to the folks over at DBMG.

JockItch
03-03-2012, 5:09 PM
I was at Bullseye in San Rafael. They have a LMT MWS and the REPR both in stock as of today.

therealnickb
03-06-2012, 2:27 PM
I did some searching and the consensus seems to be around 25fps per inch of barrel, although it really depends on the individual barrel.

I used the 25fps as an approximation and ran the Hornaday SST through Ballistic at 2820 and 2720 fps. Here are the results.

http://i44.tinypic.com/35m07zq.png

If those figures are good, then a longer barrel "might" have helped me. A 2 to 3 inch difference does not seem like a lot at 400yards. But maybe it is?

Using your 25fps loss I'd be curious if 2770 vs 2670 made much difference.

evol ways
03-06-2012, 4:26 PM
I was at Bullseye in San Rafael. They have a LMT MWS and the REPR both in stock as of today.

I called them just a minute ago and they don't have them in the .308. What's the other diffrences is there With the new enhanced version compared to the Gen 2 version.

problemchild
03-06-2012, 6:40 PM
If those figures are good, then a longer barrel "might" have helped me. A 2 to 3 inch difference does not seem like a lot at 400yards. But maybe it is?

Using your 25fps loss I'd be curious if 2770 vs 2670 made much difference.

That chart is not right. Is it showing 57ft-lbs of energy at 500yds?

Bullet Drop (Inches)
100y 91m 200y 183m 300y 275m 400y 366m 500y 458m 600y 549m 700y 641m 800y 732m 900y 824m 1000y 915m
M118 +16.5 +30.0 +36.0 +34.0 +22.5 Zero -35.0 -80.0 -144.0 -230.0
M118LR +17.4 +30.4 +36.3 +34.2 +22.6 Zero -35.7 -86.8 -156.1 -246.7
HSM 155gr +13.8 +24.3 +29.2 +27.5 +18.2 Zero -28.8 -70.3 -127.2 -202.9


Energy (Muzzle - M118 - 2605Ft-Lbs., M118LR - 2586, HSM 155gr - 2815)
M118 2265 1940 1678 1400 1195 1035 865 735 635 545
M118LR 2247 1944 1675 1436 1225 1037 877 743 634 547
HSM 155gr 2464 2131 1834 1571 1339 1135 944 783 635 522


Wind Drift (Inches) 10 mph Crosswind
M118 1.0 3.0 7.0 13.0 22.0 32.0 46.0 64.0 84.0 108.0
M118LR 0.6 3.0 7.0 12.8 20.8 31.4 44.4 60.5 79.8 102.1
HSM 155gr 0.6 2.6 6.2 11.5 18.7 28.1 40.1 55.0 73.5 95.9

problemchild
03-06-2012, 6:42 PM
I called them just a minute ago and they don't have them in the .308. What's the other diffrences is there With the new enhanced version compared to the Gen 2 version.

Repr gen 2 had a "CORRECTLY" sized magwell so it would feed ammo.
LMT gen 2 had new BC, new bolt, new upper
LMT gen 3 has slick side rails and ????

problemchild
03-06-2012, 6:44 PM
One last thing to keep in mind. The wait times for guns are going to go out to infinity as the election grows closer. Buy now and have a bird in the hand.

Sniper3142
03-06-2012, 6:45 PM
Yeah I dont believe that. I was tagging a steel plate at 650yds with a 3.5x acog in side gusting wind 25mph. FIRST HIT FIRST SHOT. I could have gone to 1000k with a more powerful scope.

What don't you believe?

That a longer barrel and more velocity are better for long range use? That is a fact of physics and ballistics.

I didn't say a 16 inch barreled .308 LMT MWS couldn't be used at long range. I said a longer barrel providing more velocity is better, and it is.

Omega13device
03-06-2012, 8:06 PM
That chart is not right. Is it showing 57ft-lbs of energy at 500yds?


You're not reading it right. The dashed lines plot the energy and the scale is on the right side. The faster round is delivering 1114 ft-lbs at 500 yards.

http://i44.tinypic.com/35m07zq.png

evol ways
03-07-2012, 12:09 PM
So I'll be ordering my .308 in the next week or so. What kind of scope should I get? I would like a NF but man they are expensive and well after the rifle it might take me a while to come up with the cash.

Knife Edge
03-18-2012, 12:22 PM
I have always wanted a longer barrel rifle. I have a .223 with a 16" all ready and just feel like I would be happy with one.

One question. How does a BB take care of the ambi mag release?

A world of difference between a .223 in 16" trying to throw 69 to 75 grain bullets and a 16" .308 throwing 168 to 178 grain bullets, not even in the same league when looking beyond 600 yards.


What don't you believe?

That a longer barrel and more velocity are better for long range use? That is a fact of physics and ballistics.

.....I said a longer barrel providing more velocity is better, and it is.

You wont gain as much velocity as you think, more or less based on the type of powder used. Some of the faster powders like XBR show minimal change in velocity from 16" to 18", however 18" is probably the ideal length considering OAL of the firearm and maneuvering it; 16" having an advantage offhand which is where you will likely find yourself hunting at 100 to 150 yards. Loads of shooters take the 16" OBR to 1,000 with 175g SMK or 178g Match, the theory a .308 isn't a 1,000y gun is a myth that's been busted over and over. If I had to buy an OBR again I'm not sure I could decide between 16 and 18, probably whatever was in stock. With the LMT its obvious, something smaller than .30 to get the BC up and that's where the advantage is hidden. Remember, you aren't building a bench a gun and loading the bullets to a few thousands off the lands, tuning the load, etc. in order to make one ragged hole at 400 yards, you are buying a great run of the mill medium range platform that will shoot long range but at a disadvantage with gusty wind or ranging errors.

Just my .02 and trying to help another .308 guy. FWIW, I had all the same thought processes as you. The average operator will tell you to put a 3-15NF or 4.5-14 Leupold on that gun with an angled RDS for CQB work. 15X is more than enough for 1,000y and steel work. Some of the newer Mark 6 Leupolds are really opening up the window with 3-18, even better but more money. FWIW, buying a graduate level .308 gas gun (OBR, LMT, custom) is deserving of an equivalent optic, optics are everything and often times cost as much as the gun. The Leupold Mark 4 ER/T M5 4.5-14x50mm can be found for $1350 with enough searching around; it's first focal plane, TMR reticle, mil turrets in a beafy Mark 4 scope housing with all the best optic treatments. The Leupy is about $1k cheaper than an equivalent NF but the NF has the zero stop feature, not a factor unless you are shooting in the dark and don't want to give away your position using a flashlight to read the settings (IOW, you reset to zero and count clicks). Most medium range shooters won't notice the difference in clarity between Leupy and NF if you were to put paper trash bag over the two scopes and look through, both have sufficient clarity to shoot under moon lighting with no light amplification optics, NF has a FFP illuminated reticle; again stuff you will never need unless you get paid to do that. If you an afford the NF, by all means you won't regret it. If you can't, get the Leupy and your kids will still tote it to and from the range, still under full warranty decades from now.

lates!