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thefinger
04-05-2007, 2:43 AM
What are the rules regarding black powder pistols? They aren't considered firearms, but are there any specific rules that need to be followed when transporting/carrying a black powder pistol?

I assume that you can't concealed carry a 1858 Remington Army.:p

VeryCoolCat
04-05-2007, 3:25 AM
LOL..... well I don't know about the laws on carry for black powder/flintlock... buttttt...



I figure if you dressed like a pirate..... bought a pair of These http://replicagunsswords.com/weapons_gallery/catalog/ENGLISH-FLINTLOCK-PISTOL-DUELING-BOXED-SET-p-2000.html

http://replicagunsswords.com/weapons_gallery/files/productpics/detailed_images/d_1334.jpg

And one of these but actually sharpended
http://replicagunsswords.com/weapons_gallery/images_backup/t_1402_02.jpg
http://replicagunsswords.com/weapons_gallery/catalog/PIRATE-BOARDING-CUTLASS-p-1402.html

And Two of these http://i24.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/94/c6/06e5_1.JPG
http://cgi.ebay.com/Renaissance-Pirate-Flintlock-Pistol-Holster_W0QQitemZ180103152986QQihZ008QQcategoryZ82 161QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Then bought this costume
http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/imageserver.x/00000000/dianestreasure/1rubjackpirate.jpg

You'd probably be able to walk around without anyone noticing the loaded flintlock pistols... if anyone argues you can claim its your right to be a pastafarian

megavolt121
04-05-2007, 9:50 AM
You'd probably be able to walk around without anyone noticing the loaded flintlock pistols... if anyone argues you can claim its your right to be a pastafarian

LOL
:D :D :D

Directshot
04-05-2007, 10:01 AM
One question............... WHY???????

DarthSean
04-06-2007, 12:52 PM
One question............... WHY???????
To try and find any legal loophole to carry SOME kind of gun.

Fjold
04-06-2007, 2:50 PM
One question............... WHY???????

5 rounds (I would leave the hammer down on a dry cylinder) of 180 grain roundball at 700-800 fps

SunshineGlocker
04-06-2007, 3:13 PM
If you could find a sheriff or police chief willing to put a BP weapon on your permit, you would be able to CCW it here. Is there any sheriff or chief who would sign that? Maybe! NB, you can't carry a BP weapon without a CCW. I'm pretty sure that a BP weapon is a "firearm" under California law, at least with respect to CCW.

Python2
04-06-2007, 4:52 PM
If you could find a sheriff or police chief willing to put a BP weapon on your permit, you would be able to CCW it here. Is there any sheriff or chief who would sign that? Maybe! NB, you can't carry a BP weapon without a CCW. I'm pretty sure that a BP weapon is a "firearm" under California law, at least with respect to CCW.

The sheriff or chief, will probably roll over laughing first before he can answer you.

wilit
04-06-2007, 5:11 PM
Hmmm... Technically BP guns are not considered firearms, which is why they are exempt from the DROS process.

As for a non-flintlock pistol, you could always get this cutie.
http://www.naaminis.com/pix/magcb.jpg

http://www.naaminis.com/naac&b.html

SunshineGlocker
04-06-2007, 5:12 PM
Yes, anyone who has a CCW in California should be thankful for it and not propose such things as carrying a BP revolver.

That said, with 500 or so chiefs in this state who can issue, there's gotta be some chief in some tiny department somewhere who has a good friend who could get a BP gun on a permit. The system has a lot of flexibility. My reading of the laws leads me to think that long guns could also be put on a CCW, and I'm sure that has happened.

But for most Californians, just getting a plain old Glock onto a plain old CCW is a big challenge so be happy if you can.

Technically BP guns are not considered firearms, which is why they are exempt from the DROS process.

I think that's at the Federal level. At the state level, I can assure you, you cannot carry a BP gun without a CCW, and I can assure you that, unless you are close friends with a very pro-gun police chief in some very small town, you won't get a BP gun put onto a CCW in this state.

anotherone
04-06-2007, 6:05 PM
Last time I checked Black Powder firearms and Air guns are considered "firearms" as applied to CCW laws in this state. Hence a CCW would be neccessary to carry even an airsoft gun loaded in public.

m1aowner
04-06-2007, 10:01 PM
I want to be just like Bill.:D

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a91/cherrioes02/wild-bill-hickock-sized.jpg

SunshineGlocker
04-07-2007, 1:07 AM
Last time I checked Black Powder firearms and Air guns are considered "firearms" as applied to CCW laws in this state. Hence a CCW would be neccessary to carry even an airsoft gun loaded in public.

That's also my understanding. Airguns, BP, pre-1898 guns, whatever, you need a CCW to carry it, and you're doing well just having a CCW in this state, much less trying to persuade a police chief that there's some reason he should let you list that BP gun on the permit.

Of course, CCWs aren't the only legal mode of carrying a concealed firearm.

Parag
04-07-2007, 10:35 AM
Of course, CCWs aren't the only legal mode of carrying a concealed firearm.

Hrrm? Your statement intrigues me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.:) Would you please expand upon your comment? Thanks.


-- Parag

SunshineGlocker
04-07-2007, 1:18 PM
Carrying without a CCW? There are a few other modes of carry. I'm sketchy on the details, so I may very well get some of this wrong. This all based on "I heard...", but these do make a lot of sense.

1. People who are here with diplomatic immunity can carry based on that.

2. I know of one person, who is in fact an occasional poster here, who had a court rule that he was not guilty of carrying without a permit because he had a need to, and now he is not bothered by LAPD for doing this.

3. Various law enforcement status. Some people are "honorary" US Marshalls and can carry in all fifty states, regardless of permits and local laws. Congressmen used to be able to get such status pretty easily, but the DoJ sent a memo saying that that was not a good idea. I'm sure plenty of other people have this though.

4. Various other law enforcement status: certain types of reserve or special deputies (I don't know the correct terms) may be able to carry without permits.

Again, please don't tear into me for getting these wrong. This is not widely-documented stuff and I'm not clear on it myself. And none of these options are available to ordinary people.

Whitesmoke
04-07-2007, 1:54 PM
.....and I can assure you that, unless you are close friends with a very pro-gun police chief in some very small town, you won't get a BP gun put onto a CCW in this state.


Not really true.....I can walk into my sheriffs office with $3 (the fee to type a new pistol on my card and photocopy it) and just give her a slip of paper with the make, model, serial number, and caliber and the gal at the counter will type it on my card. There is no need to even tell her that it's a black powder firearm....and she wouldn't know the difference from any other pistol.

example: Make: Navy Arms, Model: PRU054 (commonly known as a 1851 Navy...but I wouldn't need to include that info...just the actual model number), Add a serial number to the pistol if it doesn't have one, And list it as a .44 caliber


The sheriff (nor any other officer) will never will see what I asked to put on my card anyways....just the girl that handles the permits.

Now...I wouldn't try that when initally applying for my CCW though...;)

SunshineGlocker
04-07-2007, 2:16 PM
Interesting point, Whitesmoke! Hadn't thought of that, but that sounds quite reasonable and easy. I guess not all counties require you to qualify with the guns on your permit, so in that case it would be easy. I thought that most counties wanted you to qualify and have the gun inspected by an armorer (someone who knows not to allow a BP gun), and many counties require the gun to be on the "approved" list also.

By similar logic, I guess you could walk in and put down Remington 870, 12ga, serial #12345678. Or (if you happen to have one registered pre-2000), Bushmaster PC15, 5.56mm, Ser #987654. Wow. It's a bit of a loophole I must say.

I wouldn't encourage anyone to attempt such things. If you're fortunate enough to have a CCW in this state, be normal about it.

Goes to show, there are wide variations in the application of CA's CCW law.

E Pluribus Unum
04-07-2007, 2:58 PM
SunshineGlocker:

You are a bit off.....

Nothing says you cannot carry a shotgun or rifle concealed. Concealed firearms or "Firearms capable of being concealed upon the person" is a handgun or the like; if one can find a way to conceal an 870 shotgun in his britches it would be legal.

Another point. Black powder firearms alone are not firearms; LOADED black powder guns are firearms. Example: If you carry a Glock concealed without any ammo it is just as illegal. If you carry a BP handgun unloaded it is not a firearm. I would think that if you carried a BP firearm with the charge and the ball but did not put in the primer it would still be "unloaded" and therefor not a firearm.

Black powder is much more volatile than other forms of powder; it might not be wise to carry one around concealed anyway.

SunshineGlocker
04-07-2007, 3:04 PM
Nothing says you cannot carry a shotgun or rifle concealed. Concealed firearms or "Firearms capable of being concealed upon the person" is a handgun or the like; if one can find a way to conceal an 870 shotgun in his britches it would be legal.

Whether a shotgun is concealable or not, I couldn't find anything in PC 12050 that says that you can't list a shotgun on a CCW. And there's a practical case where that might be a reasonable thing to do. There might be a legitimate reason to want to have a loaded shotgun kept in the passenger area of a car. Maybe not for self defense, but for transportation, wildlife management, whatever. If you could put the shotty on the CCW that would be legal, I think. I think that the shotgun would have to be covered (concealed) in the passenger area.

Anyway this is all nonsense... even if the law might allow it, CCWs are for ordinary handguns and that's that.

Another point. Black powder firearms alone are not firearms; LOADED black powder guns are firearms. Example: If you carry a Glock concealed without any ammo it is just as illegal. If you carry a BP handgun unloaded it is not a firearm. I would think that if you carried a BP firearm with the charge and the ball but did not put in the primer it would still be "unloaded" and therefor not a firearm.

Hmm. Obviously it's one of those things where actually doing it makes no sense and I wouldn't want to be a test case.

Black powder is much more volatile than other forms of powder; it might not be wise to carry one around concealed anyway.

Yeah, it's a foolish idea. CCW is a serious matter and all this stuff is making a joke of it.

E Pluribus Unum
04-07-2007, 3:18 PM
Anyway this is all nonsense... even if the law might allow it, CCWs are for ordinary handguns and that's that.

That was my point from the start.

It takes all of 3 seconds to load a shotgun. I carry a single shot 12 guage around in between the seats of my truck with 5 rounds attached to the buttstock. I can pop open that action and have a round in the chamber ready to go in 3 seconds.... If that is too slow then I guess I am screwed....

1911_sfca
04-07-2007, 5:27 PM
For some reason, I can't stop laughing after reading this thread. Yes it's sad and lame that we have such problem getting law abiding, good citizens CCWs in this state.. But at least we still have a sense of humor... I mean, humarrrhhhhhhhh