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Catalyst81
02-25-2012, 9:35 PM
I'm working towards the purchase of my first handgun. I already have my HSC. I'm interested in a 9mm pistol. Went with friends today and shot a Sig SP 2022 and Beretta 92FS. Before shooting them I was leaning towards the Sig, but I fell in love with the Beretta. I think it was a combo of it being more aesthetically pleasing and feeling a little better in my hands. The Sig felt and shot great as well, but for some reason I kept finding myself picking up the Beretta. Now on to the questions...

1. I plan on using this gun as a range gun and HD gun. How crucial is it to have a rail on the gun for HD? The Beretta I shot didn't have one. Could I just keep a small light with the gun?

2. What should I expect to spend on a 92FS new? I'm in the OC area.

3. Best9mm.com gave the Taurus copy of the Beretta a glowing review. Is the review to be trusted? Would this be a good option to save some money?

4. Any suggestions on local shops that aren't overpriced in the OC area? Would it be less expensive to purchase online and have a local shop do the transfer? If so, any online store recommendations?

The only other gun I was interested in testing out is the CZ 75B. I may have to take some time to test it out at the range. I appreciate any insight you can provide.

jdewolf
02-25-2012, 9:47 PM
I wouldn't say a rail [or lack thereof] is a deal breaker, however it is useful. If you had to use your gun for HD it more than likely isn't going to be during daylight hours. Target acquisition and recognition is key... you don't want to accidently shoot someone trying to surprise you [in a good way]. Some might say you could just go with tritium sights. However in my opinion if it's dark having those little dots is nice... but if it's that dark again you need to know what or who exactly you're pointing that business end at.

You could go with a separate light. However practice with it in your offhand... shooting essentially 1 handed is a lot different. Also keep in mind if you are awoken in the middle of the night you probably won't have your full cognitive abilities. If you have to open any doors, use the phone, etc... you'll more than likely have to use that off hand for those tasks.

NewbieDave
02-25-2012, 10:17 PM
1. I plan on using this gun as a range gun and HD gun. How crucial is it to have a rail on the gun for HD? The Beretta I shot didn't have one. Could I just keep a small light with the gun?

2. What should I expect to spend on a 92FS new? I'm in the OC area.

3. Best9mm.com gave the Taurus copy of the Beretta a glowing review. Is the review to be trusted? Would this be a good option to save some money?

4. Any suggestions on local shops that aren't overpriced in the OC area? Would it be less expensive to purchase online and have a local shop do the transfer?

1) Get a gun with rail... it's not like its something you can just add on later. Better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it ;)

2) If new, you're probably going to be in the $600-700 range, used can be have at half that. Check CDNN and see if they already have a local FFL on file.

3) Taurus are good guns, I've owned & used couple in my times. I actually like the frame mounted safety (old Beretta style) on the Taurus over the current Beretta design. Keep in mind Taurus are made on Beretta spec-ed machines.

4) Cant help you... I get stuff out of state :)

johnthomas
02-25-2012, 10:22 PM
http://www.opticsplanet.net/surefire-mount-mr11.html

LikeAllGuns
02-25-2012, 10:34 PM
You can't go wrong with CZ 75 B... The 92fs is also a great pistol... Both are personal preference.

Not sure on your area price range but the CZ should run about 540 and the 92fs runs about 600 to 650.

If you go with beretta get the M9 its the same as the 92fs but less garbage written on gun and better sights in my opinion.

As far as rail there great but as soon as you put a light or laser on it you cannot use holster anymore.

DON'T BUY A TAURUS !!!!!

SLO1911Fan
02-25-2012, 10:44 PM
I'll take a CZ over a Beretta any day of the week. A CZ SP01 and a Beretta will both cost you around $650-700 new. The CZ75b and can be had for $450-500 used, while the Beretta tends to be closer to $500

BoJackUSMC
02-25-2012, 10:48 PM
I like sig 2022 more than Beretta because I don't like having decocker on the slide. Beretta will cost around $560 to $570 at Bolsa Gun Smith.

Spirit 1
02-25-2012, 10:53 PM
I'll also agree on the CZ being an excellent choice. Extremely accurate and I notice most people say they've never had a gun fit their hand so well. Built like a tank, fine quality and famous for being very reliable. Hard to go wrong there.

morfeeis
02-25-2012, 11:04 PM
http://www.berettacollection.com/dave/slide20.jpg
92G-SD "Special Duty" – 9mm with light rail and brigadier slide – factory night sights and aggressive checkering front and back beveled magazine well – extended magazine release - shown with M3 light.

Or
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/images/D11/62/62204.jpg
Beretta 92FS TYPE M9A1 9mm (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/52/products_id/62205/Handguns/Beretta/Beretta%2092A1%209mm%2010RD/)

1. i have a rail on my Ruger and my Glcok and i have yet to buy anything to put on there, i keep a flash light right next to my Ruger for things that go bump in the night.

2. if you get the M9A1 look to spend $750 out the door

3. Taurus makes their 92 clone on the same tools used to make the older 92's, so yes they are up to par.

4. i'm not in the OC so i cant help with a local shop but i can tell you if you do order it online make sure and ask the FFL you plan on using how much they charge for out of state xfers. Some FFL try and screw you by charging like $120+dros+tax.

Good luck and i wouldn't be a true Ruger fan if i didn't tell you to look at the Ruger SR9, it's a great pistol.

Catalyst81
02-26-2012, 7:47 AM
You can't go wrong with CZ 75 B... The 92fs is also a great pistol... Both are personal preference.

Not sure on your area price range but the CZ should run about 540 and the 92fs runs about 600 to 650.

If you go with beretta get the M9 its the same as the 92fs but less garbage written on gun and better sights in my opinion.

As far as rail there great but as soon as you put a light or laser on it you cannot use holster anymore.

DON'T BUY A TAURUS !!!!!

Why not? It seems like the Beretta clone gets good reviews and is made to similar specs. Did you have a bad experience with the PT 92?

Rhythm of Life
02-26-2012, 7:52 AM
1. doesn't matter
2. dunno the area
3. no
4. dunno the area

Buy the CZ 75B

I was stuck between the M9 and the SP 01, I went the CZ route and haven't been happier.

CSACANNONEER
02-26-2012, 8:04 AM
Handguns with rails are a newer fad. If you feel the need to be a tactifool mall ninja, a rail is a must. If you want a gun with extra weight and features that can snag on clothing, a rail is a plus. If you think that a laser or a light is going to help you in a SD situation even though you've never be3en able to practise with them in the dark or have any traing on how to use them, you're a fool. If you just need a firearm for HD, a simple shotgun is normally the best option. For a first handgun, a .22lr is normally the best choice. A .22 will save you a lot of money while learning to shoot and practising. In fact, it should more than pay for itself and a 9mm within a few months.

Finally, get a gun that fits YOU right. It has nothing to do with how anyone else can shoot it. It has to work well in your hands.

Old4eyes
02-26-2012, 8:19 AM
A rail is nice to have, hard to add on later. There are some aftermarket bolt on rails, I haven't tried them for my 92. As was already mentioned, the M9A1 has a rail, so if you were buying a new Beretta, that would be the choice. If you picked up a used 92 cheap, the thought of adding a rail might make the best economic sense.

Is a gun mounted light a must? They are easier learn. When you grab the gun from the nightstand, it's a no brainer as to where is the light. People will argue vehemently about the fact you may be covering a good guy with your muzzle while search for the bad guy. You'll have to be your own judge on that aspect.

I've got a light on my nightstand gun, and I have Surefire handheld which I practice the Surefire/Rogers technique. I have guns without a rail so I want to be able to handle a situation either way. It may be that you go for a non-railed 92 and choose a hand held light - then you train that way. And someday when you go to a free state and get a concealed carry and have a small gun that does not have a rail, then the non-gun mounted technique will be the ticket. In the house with a full sized gun, I'll go with a rail and light on the gun.

Go out and shoot some more guns. The 92 is a really good gun if it fits your hand. I don't like the placement of the safety/decocker on the rail. Do look at the CZ line of guns, similar feel to the Beretta. And as with Beretta, some have rail, some don't.

Finally, become a member of Taurus Armed web page. When you join, you get to see the complaint section. I've got a Taurus Revolver, and my experience with it and the support from Taurus leads me to not get another Taurus product.

Lucky Scott
02-26-2012, 8:53 AM
Although I am no expert, and still consider myself to be learning as a beginner, here is my opinion.

I dont like lights on guns, but many people do.
Get what you like.

If this is your first gun, dont consider it your only gun as you will probably end up buying lots of guns over the next few years.

If possible, try to rent, or borrow a gun you are interested in and shoot it before buying it.

Buy used on the classified forum here on Calguns, or watch for sale prices at gun stores for best deals.

brassburnz
02-26-2012, 9:55 AM
For a first handgun, a .22lr is normally the best choice. A .22 will save you a lot of money while learning to shoot and practising. In fact, it should more than pay for itself and a 9mm within a few months.

Finally, get a gun that fits YOU right. It has nothing to do with how anyone else can shoot it. It has to work well in your hands.

+1 on this. There's a reason more people are taught to shoot with a .22 rimfire than all other calibers combined. Reduced ammo costs means more trigger time. More trigger time means faster learning curve. The skill set learned with a .22 rimfire is EXACTLY the same as the skill set needed to shoot any caliber firearm properly.

If you're in the market to buy your first handgun, better be ready to buy at least 3 more within the first year whether you can afford it or not.

LikeAllGuns
02-26-2012, 11:38 PM
Why not? It seems like the Beretta clone gets good reviews and is made to similar specs. Did you have a bad experience with the PT 92?

No not the PT 92..... My own exp. with tauras is.... I bought a brand new .44 mag tracker 4''
Which the timing went out within 200 rounds..luckily it didn't go off in my hand when it clicked with chamber 3/4 turned...

Sent it back with there ''lifetime warranty'' and they ''fixed it'' and sent it back to ffl.

I picked it up and went to range and before I finished 50 rounds CLICK 3/4 chamber turn..
Sent it back again and when it arrived back at FFL I sold it to him for a big loss ( he offcoarse knew about problems with gun)

I have read reviews were tauras pistols have blown up in hands.

Oh thats what tauras does is copy other guns and make a crappy replica..

smittty
02-27-2012, 8:25 AM
The Taurus PT92 is their best gun and it's excellent even by Beretta standards.


No not the PT 92..... My own exp. with tauras is.... I bought a brand new .44 mag tracker 4''
Which the timing went out within 200 rounds..luckily it didn't go off in my hand when it clicked with chamber 3/4 turned...

Sent it back with there ''lifetime warranty'' and they ''fixed it'' and sent it back to ffl.

I picked it up and went to range and before I finished 50 rounds CLICK 3/4 chamber turn..
Sent it back again and when it arrived back at FFL I sold it to him for a big loss ( he offcoarse knew about problems with gun)

I have read reviews were tauras pistols have blown up in hands.

Oh thats what tauras does is copy other guns and make a crappy replica..

LikeAllGuns
02-27-2012, 9:07 AM
Hey smittty........:rofl2:

Catalyst81
02-27-2012, 11:00 AM
Thought I'd tack another question on for you more experienced people. What is the benefit of buying online? It seems like prices are a little less expensive, but unless you find a stellar deal, you end up paying the same or more because you pay tax and the transfer fee. Am I missing something? I'll probably buy local if prices are reasonably close.

Lead Waster
02-27-2012, 11:08 AM
Well, you USED to be able to uh, defer paying sales tax on out-of-state purchases, so you'd pay shipping and FFL, but not sales-tax (use tax). But FFLs are required to charge you use-tax on guns shipped in, even though the gun wasn't sold in the state, the state wants your money.

Try "Gallery of Guns", it's actually reasonably prices. It's a network of local gun shops and it's not much different than buying online and shipping to an FFL, then paying sales tax and FFL. Also, if there is something wrong with the gun, it gives you the option of bringing it back to the local shop. Can't do that with the internet!

Online guns are for other non-CA states, where you can order a gun and have it shipped to your doorstep. Tacking on the $75 or so for FFL processing kills the deal now.

P220ST
02-27-2012, 11:41 AM
Check out Turner's and their weekly ads. If I were to buy a 9mm right now, I'd probably get myself a Springfield XD9 or a Glock 17.

Kempfer
02-27-2012, 1:09 PM
1. I plan on using this gun as a range gun and HD gun. How crucial is it to have a rail on the gun for HD? The Beretta I shot didn't have one. Could I just keep a small light with the gun?


Get a gun with a rail. You want two lights and not just a handheld. You also want Night Sights as well. Problem with having just a handheld is you assume both hands will be free, sometimes they aren't so when they aren't you have no light.

sparrow
02-27-2012, 9:21 PM
Just an FYI, if you find a great deal on a used 92 without a rail surefire sells clamp on rail kits. They mount on the front of the trigger guard and still keep a pretty slim profile. I donít have a 92 or the kit but have one on my older style Jericho941 and it works great. Mines made by a IMI but the reviews for the surfireís are positive from what Iíve seen.

Freq18Hz
02-27-2012, 9:31 PM
I'll take a CZ over a Beretta any day of the week. A CZ SP01 and a Beretta will both cost you around $650-700 new. The CZ75b and can be had for $450-500 used, while the Beretta tends to be closer to $500

^this

Shoot more guns. Think twice about the rail, you might not always want to point a gun at what you are looking at.

There are far 'better' 9mm options out there than the two you've mentioned.

CZ is one of them.

-Freq

glockman19
02-27-2012, 9:35 PM
I personally think that Glock makes the best 9mm semi auto pistol...17/19/26.34 you can't go wrong...Unless...You don't like the grip angle...then liik at a Beretta or S&W MP

What ever gun you eventually purchase...shoot as many as you can in the caliber you are looking for and buy the one that you shoot best and feels the best in your hand.

scotty99
02-27-2012, 9:37 PM
Honestly, if the Sig and the Beretta are all you have fired, you need to go back to the range and try a wider assortment. The Beretta is a fine and beautiful gun, but the DA/SA combination can be a real issue for a new shooter. A decade or more ago, Beretta dominated the LE market. Now they have nearly disappeared, and first shot accuracy and maintenance (along with cost) were major factors. Shoot a Glock and shoot a Springfield XD, and unless you just hate them or don't shoot them well, I would recommend you start there. Much simpler construction, no safeties to trip you up with your life on the line, and the same trigger pull every time. Spend the money you save on ammo and range time. You won't stare lovingly at a Glock or a XD like you might a 92F, but if the SHTF I and millions like me prefer the dull feel of plastic in our hands. Reliability and first shot accuracy count for a whole lot when it comes to defending yourself.

MyGlock17
02-27-2012, 9:51 PM
I think you'll like the CZ 75B if you liked the Beretta...But if you want a striker fired gun i would go with Glock...If you are thinking about getting accessories for your gun Glock is the way to go...Same with the XD...

em9sredbeam
02-28-2012, 7:18 AM
Personally I like cz's better, and you can get them railed. The only problem I have with lights is if it is a dangerous situation, you are easy to find, just look for where the light is coming from. I have 2 Taurus Handguns, A snubnose 357 titanium model, that is great. The trigger is a little heavier and rougher than a Smith, but has been great. I also Have a Taurus 1911, Which is good, but a little more Finicky than other 1911's I have shot. For a semi-automatic HD gun, I would spend a little more and go for more reliable. Also Look into xd and glock. Sigs are great but a little pricey.

Go Navy
02-28-2012, 7:21 AM
You can't go wrong with the Beretta. I have owned one for 20 years and I love it. It shoots and functions well. Now I want an all stainless ("Inox") version, but I have three other 9mms (Glock 17, HK USP Compact, and Sig P226), love them all, and can't justify yet another 9mm.

I support your choice of caliber. There's some wisdom to starting with a .22, but you can learn to shoot a 9mm well without too much trouble, and there is nothing wrong with it as a self defense round.

My nightstand weapon is my Glock 17 with Tritium sights and a Streamlight mounted on it. Why the Glock in that role? Because it is dirt simple to operate and I figure I'd be a little groggy when the situation arises. The drawback to the Glock is that the trigger is so different from all other pistols. You gotta practice with it to get good with the trigger and I'm still on that learning curve.

My advice, though, is to get the Beretta......you'll likely keep it for the long haul while you add to your armory.

Gryff
02-28-2012, 7:40 AM
1. I plan on using this gun as a range gun and HD gun. How crucial is it to have a rail on the gun for HD? The Beretta I shot didn't have one. Could I just keep a small light with the gun?

Doesn't have to be a deal-breaker. Just get a good handheld light and practice (a lot) with it.

3. Best9mm.com gave the Taurus copy of the Beretta a glowing review. Is the review to be trusted? Would this be a good option to save some money?

Tauruses are good guns, but I like Berettas better. I would imagine that there would be some differences in the way the trigger feels, since it is a product by a different company (even though they are very similar designs).

chucksolo69
02-28-2012, 1:32 PM
I have a CZ 75B, Sig Pro 2022, Star Model B and a Browning Hi-Power all in 9MM. None will hold a candle to the Browning.

enzo357
02-29-2012, 5:38 AM
Congrats on getting a first gun. It is the beginning of an expensive sickness. For the money you want to spend, a glock, Cz, or xd sounds really good. Do some research and see what guys are using for competition in production division. They use those guns largely because of great reliability and accuracy. Really do not see too many Beretta or Taurus. Good luck.

Catalyst81
02-29-2012, 7:14 AM
Thanks for all the suggestions. I ended up with a CZ 75BD. Put it in jail yesterday. The CZ and the Beretta were my favorite after testing a bunch. For some reason I liked the heavier steel guns best. Maybe because of less recoil? Who knows, but I'm excited. Thanks again for the help.

markm
02-29-2012, 8:00 AM
Hello OP,

Some people responding to your thread have requested that you think about your gun buying tactic. I think they may have a point--and I would like to add a different twist.

First off, most of the guns listed on this thread are great guns. Buy whichever one you like most--please yourself.

For overall fun, a reasonbly inexpensive learning experience, and a "universal" HD weapon, think about this:

1) Buy a .22 automatic. I own a Ruger Mark II. It is used more than any pistol I own and by the most people. I shot about 200 rounds through it last Saturday. It is a good training gun for all experience levels.

2) Buy a 586 or 686 type gun for HD (Ruger SP101, etc.). Yeah, I know, they are revolvers...YEESH......MAN THAT THING STINKS...ARE YOU CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, for my situation it is not a poor decision. My house has different people coming and going. Mostly family members or close friends who make check-up visits when we are gone, or they are performing "maintenance" work. Relatives stay with us often.

I don't keep a loaded firearm in the nightstand for obvious reasons. The revolver is secured in the nightstand with ammo close by. My wife can unlock the gun, load it with low recoil .38 Specials, and fire the weapon easily. She knows how to legally pack-up the gun and take with her on business trips if she feels the need.

I tried having one of my .40 S&W guns in my nightstand. Again, the gun was secure and unloaded. Several times, when I was alone in the house at night, I practiced un-securing the semi-auto and loading it (I practiced when I had to wake-up and use the bathroom--you know, in a groggy state and in the dark).

The results were not good. One time, I racked the slide incorrectly and sliced my hand. On two other tries, I did not cycle the slide completely and jammed the gun.

Also, my wife has difficulty operating the slide on a semi-auto (not a problem with her favorite gun, the Ruger Mark II).

I would choose a semi-auto for HD if I could keep it loaded and in my nightstand, but I don't feel I can.

The revolver is a much better HD choice for my household.

There are no "one-size-fits-all guns." My .44 magnum is on my hip while hiking Yellowstone, Glacier, Grand Teton, et allia. While hiking into my stand at night in the UP of Michigan, my SR40, with a Michigan legal 15 Round mag, is on my hip (wolf packs roam freely around hunting camp)(No, I don't hunt at night and no, I don't hunt wolves!!).

My 7mm magnum is my hunting gun-of-choice in the west. My whitetail gun is a 7mm-08.

No gun is perfect for all situations.

My Ruger Mark II and my 10/22 get the most use, and abuse; however, they keep on ticking.

Have fun with your new hobby.

markm

markm
02-29-2012, 8:02 AM
Thanks for all the suggestions. I ended up with a CZ 75BD. Put it in jail yesterday. The CZ and the Beretta were my favorite after testing a bunch. For some reason I liked the heavier steel guns best. Maybe because of less recoil? Who knows, but I'm excited. Thanks again for the help.

Hey Catalyst,

Congratulations!

And disregard my previous post as you already have a new gun!

markm

chucksolo69
02-29-2012, 9:14 AM
Congrats. You will like the CZ. I love mine, but my hands are small and the grip is a bit wide. That is why I usually shoot my Hi-Power. The CZ is a fine weapon.

Chrushev
02-29-2012, 9:38 AM
I'm working towards the purchase of my first handgun. I already have my HSC. I'm interested in a 9mm pistol. Went with friends today and shot a Sig SP 2022 and Beretta 92FS. Before shooting them I was leaning towards the Sig, but I fell in love with the Beretta. I think it was a combo of it being more aesthetically pleasing and feeling a little better in my hands. The Sig felt and shot great as well, but for some reason I kept finding myself picking up the Beretta. Now on to the questions...

1. I plan on using this gun as a range gun and HD gun. How crucial is it to have a rail on the gun for HD? The Beretta I shot didn't have one. Could I just keep a small light with the gun?

2. What should I expect to spend on a 92FS new? I'm in the OC area.

3. Best9mm.com gave the Taurus copy of the Beretta a glowing review. Is the review to be trusted? Would this be a good option to save some money?

4. Any suggestions on local shops that aren't overpriced in the OC area? Would it be less expensive to purchase online and have a local shop do the transfer? If so, any online store recommendations?

The only other gun I was interested in testing out is the CZ 75B. I may have to take some time to test it out at the range. I appreciate any insight you can provide.

I am in a similar situation to yours, (I am picking up my frist gun this friday). Also live in OC area.

Ive done a ton of research and the best Beretta i could find was for about 585$ (650ish out the door). Most go for 600-640ish though in OC.

Buying online I found that even though its 10-20$ cheaper, you end up paying that in shipping, because you have to pay for it to be shipped to the store.

As someone else mentioned, unless you have a ton of practice with it, getting a rail and a tactical light is probably not going to help you much. A flashlight should do fine, although personally it scares the hell out of me to shine a light at someone who is potentially armed, and have this nice little bright bulls eye for them to shoot at (with my face right behind it, aiming).

I personally love the Beretta's look, and thats why I would choose that over the Sig.

As far as clones are concerned, I made a post a week ago or so about this topic, and most seem to agree that they are as good as the real Berettas, you just dont get the Beretta name, and some of the newer features (like slide decocker/safety), although Taurus has same features on the frame now. Some prefer the Taurus safety. Here is the thread --> http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=354508

In OC:

Beretta 92FS - 600-640$ ish
Taurus 92 - 400-500$
Turkey Made C92 - 300$ or so... but impossible to find since they are no longer made, there are limited quantities of them in the world.

Lead Waster
02-29-2012, 10:36 AM
^^ I don't think a flashlight is a big problem. If you get a really powerful on, aiming it at the possible bad-guys face will make it pretty darned hard for them to aim at you, or even see you! Meanwhile, they are lit up and you can decide what to do without having to point your gun at anyone.

USMC VET
02-29-2012, 11:23 AM
If its going to be a range or HE only gun then I thing the 92GA is a great gun, but if you want a dual purpose gun for possible LTC I'd go with a G19 or XD9

LikeAllGuns
02-29-2012, 11:48 AM
Thanks for all the suggestions. I ended up with a CZ 75BD. Put it in jail yesterday. The CZ and the Beretta were my favorite after testing a bunch. For some reason I liked the heavier steel guns best. Maybe because of less recoil? Who knows, but I'm excited. Thanks again for the help.

Nice !!!!!! great chioce.......It well last a life time......