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View Full Version : What we have to overcome if we try to pass CCW via initiative


Zin_dawg
02-25-2012, 7:57 PM
San Jose Mercury News (http://www.mercurynews.com/california-budget/ci_20007591) :

And, boy, are some of them wacky.

Under David John Clark's proposed initiative, you wouldn't need a good reason, or even have to prove good moral character, to carry a concealed weapon. Past criminal investigations, indictments and restraining orders? No problem, if Clark gets his way. And under the measure's proposed
language, police couldn't force permit seekers to take firearms-safety training, nor could they order psychological tests.

SilverTauron
02-25-2012, 8:07 PM
San Jose Mercury News (http://www.mercurynews.com/california-budget/ci_20007591) :

Don't expect the press to line up for right to carry anytime soon.The press considers a firearm the way Dracula would look upon a crucifix.

Why not circulate a petition? Worst case scenario you guys are out $200 and are clued in to what the local population really thinks regarding shall issue concealed carry. Contrary to what the incompetents like to print, out here in Shall Issue world people don't get shot over parking lot disputes. In fact, in this state of the $10 instant background check carry permit the only time someone is likely to be shot is if they're going to a doctor. I still have yet to drive down main street and see a duel at noon over a parking space. Ill be sure to post on here if I do though.:rolleyes:

blakdawg
02-25-2012, 8:08 PM
Well, we're not going to try to get shall-issue CCW by initiative. Fundamental rights are not subject to the whims of a majority.

I don't think any of the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights would even be able to qualify to appear on the ballot in California, and if they were on the ballot they would not pass, given today's political and intellectual climate.

Dreaded Claymore
02-25-2012, 9:51 PM
Don't expect the press to line up for right to carry anytime soon.The press considers a firearm the way Dracula would look upon a crucifix.

Why not circulate a petition? Worst case scenario you guys are out $200 and are clued in to what the local population really thinks regarding shall issue concealed carry. Contrary to what the incompetents like to print, out here in Shall Issue world people don't get shot over parking lot disputes. In fact, in this state of the $10 instant background check carry permit the only time someone is likely to be shot is if they're going to a doctor. I still have yet to drive down main street and see a duel at noon over a parking space. Ill be sure to post on here if I do though.:rolleyes:

I already told you not to come here if all you're going to do is taunt Californians who are being deprived of the freedoms you enjoy. Cut it out, right now.

SanPedroShooter
02-25-2012, 9:54 PM
There are a million threads on why this is a bad idea, win or lose.

As bad as the search function is, you can still find at least one or two, and thats saying something...

SilverTauron
02-25-2012, 9:58 PM
I already told you not to come here if all you're going to do is taunt Californians who are being deprived of the freedoms you enjoy. Cut it out, right now.

Taunting?

There is no way I can explain what life is like here 2A wise *without* sounding like I'm mocking you guys.I know what you guys are dealing with,which is why ignorant diatribe regarding the so called dangers of giving a CCW to "anyone" needed to be exposed as such.Many will read that article and think nothing about questioning that perspective,false as it is.

G60
02-25-2012, 10:12 PM
Burn!

ke6guj
02-25-2012, 11:59 PM
AFAIK, Mr. Clark pulled his initiative after conversiing with CGF about current and upcoming carry cases.

GOEX FFF
02-26-2012, 12:14 AM
AFAIK, Mr. Clark pulled his initiative after conversiing with CGF about current and upcoming carry cases.

^^ This

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=7956614&postcount=829

Kid Stanislaus
02-26-2012, 10:14 AM
If we are ever stupid enough to try it the CA voters will knock it down so hard that courts will use the vote to declare its not what Californians want.

Sgt Raven
02-26-2012, 11:36 AM
The San Jose Murky News, need I say more? :facepalm:

hammerhead_77
02-26-2012, 1:00 PM
Not to mention the fact that they completely misrepresent all the points in Clark's initiative!

- requires 16 hours training (FS 2-day syllabus)
- prohibition of anyone with a history of medication for mental issues (incl. stress, etc)
- prohibition of anyone involved in DV (potentially even a victim)

The very reason the CGF leadership worked so hard to convince both Clark and Dr. Piazza to pull the initiative is that it was poorly worded and would have been too restrictive!!

Now, how do we get these purveyors of misinformation to correct themselves??

randian
02-26-2012, 4:49 PM
- prohibition of anyone with a history of medication for mental issues (incl. stress, etc)

Depending on how this is worded, could snag hundreds of thousands of men who were treated (I use this word loosely) with Ritalin as kids.

ke6guj
02-26-2012, 4:52 PM
Depending on how this is worded, could snag hundreds of thousands of men who were treated (I use this word loosely) with Ritalin as kids.which is why the proposed initiative has been pulled.

vincewarde
02-26-2012, 6:53 PM
We should not rule out the method - even though it appears that we will do better in the courts.

I say this, because those opposed to shall issue are desperate, and telling more and more lies that are less and less believable. Check out this link: http://reasonedpolitics.blogspot.com/2012/02/gun-control-advocates-react-to-spread.html

BigDogatPlay
02-26-2012, 7:29 PM
And under the measure's proposed
language, police couldn't force permit seekers to take firearms-safety training, nor could they order psychological tests.

There is a reason that it's called the San Jose Murky Skews.... those two things, among others, are in part what Mr. Clark's now pulled initiative would have put into place. Psychological testing was not 'required' in the initiative, but the initiative was so closely written relative to past medical history (which would have put issuing authorities in violation of HIPPA, IMO) that many thousands would have been forever barred LTC out of hand.

The Murk is very late to the story and could stand for a nice big helping of STFU by way of letters to the editor.

Librarian
02-26-2012, 8:36 PM
Hmm.

Just as a matter of followup, the Secretary of State's list (http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ballot-measures/cleared-for-circulation.htm) does not show any status but 'cleared to collect signatures' for "1528. (11-0056) Concealed Firearms. Initiative Statute."

jdberger
02-26-2012, 10:19 PM
I'll look into it.

hoffmang
02-26-2012, 10:38 PM
The proponent is working with Don Kilmer. There is no real way to "withdraw" the initiative but he is just not going to turn in any signatures.

-Gene