PDA

View Full Version : New gun lock required on ppt


hkim562
02-25-2012, 10:54 AM
I recently purchased a rifle from a Calguns member. The rifle came with a cable lock. When I arrived at the FFL dealer he stated that the gun lock must have a receipt that states the lock was purchased 30 days or less. The gun lock looked almost new. The lock was the same as the ones I have used before (cable). I felt he was simply trying to sell me something. Can anyone clarify is this is true? I went to the DOJ website and I could not find that specific law.

falbuff
02-25-2012, 11:03 AM
that sounds like turners call a different gun shop

223Junkie
02-25-2012, 11:12 AM
A couple years ago, I had the same thing happen to me while I was doing a PPT on a rifle. I haven't done a PPT since then, so I don't know if they are still doing it. I was talking the the gun store owner and he said the cables were given to them from the police department. Then I was told I had to buy one. I asked him if I could bring in one of my own and was told no.

Is it a law, or was the FFL just trying to make a few bucks?

Librarian
02-25-2012, 11:21 AM
I recently purchased a rifle from a Calguns member. The rifle came with a cable lock. When I arrived at the FFL dealer he stated that the gun lock must have a receipt that states the lock was purchased 30 days or less. The gun lock looked almost new. The lock was the same as the ones I have used before (cable). I felt he was simply trying to sell me something. Can anyone clarify is this is true? I went to the DOJ website and I could not find that specific law.
30-day rule is law.

See the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Buying_and_selling_firearms_in_California#Locks.2C _Safes.2C_and_Laws

paul0660
02-25-2012, 11:36 AM
12088.1. (a) All firearms sold or transferred in this state by a
licensed firearms dealer, including private transfers through a
dealer, and all firearms manufactured in this state, shall include or
be accompanied by a firearms safety device

It was. The OP didn't need to buy another. If it was not supplied with one, he could buy one from the shop, or present a lock with a receipt not more than 30 days old.

The idea of the 30 day deal, I think, is that you can't use one lock to buy many guns. If the gun shows up with one, or the dealer hands you one (even a freebie from LE), that is a new lock, to be added to your pile. (Or handed back to the friendly dealer later). Lots of ways to satisfy the statute.

maro69camaro
02-25-2012, 11:53 AM
its true. one of the FFL's I deal with told me that if I dont use the lock I can bring it back when ever I do a transfer and he will buy it back and sell it to me for the same price, that way we both stay legal.

The Gleam
02-25-2012, 12:09 PM
Unfortunately the lock issue per purchase is true; buy, show receipt, or show you got one from PD. Or... get a safe and complete the safe affidavit upon purchase. After a few purchases, you'll not only want a safe anyway, it's in your own best interest.

paul0660
02-25-2012, 12:10 PM
Or... get a safe and complete the safe affidavit upon purchase. After a few purchases, you'll not only want a safe anyway, it's in your own best interest.

Does not work for handguns, per Federal law.

ACE LT
02-25-2012, 12:23 PM
I recently purchased a rifle from a Calguns member. The rifle came with a cable lock. When I arrived at the FFL dealer he stated that the gun lock must have a receipt that states the lock was purchased 30 days or less. The gun lock looked almost new. The lock was the same as the ones I have used before (cable). I felt he was simply trying to sell me something. Can anyone clarify is this is true? I went to the DOJ website and I could not find that specific law.


DEFINITELY SOUNDS LIKE A TURNERS. IT'S RIDICULOUS, ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I REFUSE TO DO PPT'S THERE. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THE LOCK IS FACTORY NEW IN A SEALED PLASTIC BAG WITHIN THE CASE THEY'LL STILL MAKE YOU BUY THEIRS, ANYTHING TO MAKE A BUCK THESE DAYS. IN RECENT PPT'S I'VE DONE, THE SHOPS I FREQUENT DON'T MAKE YOU BUY ANOTHER AS LONG AS YOU HAVE YOUR OWN INCLUDED OR GUN SAFE INFORMATION, MUCH MORE SIMPLE AND STRAIGHTFORWARD.

Librarian
02-25-2012, 12:46 PM
Unfortunately the lock issue per purchase is true; buy, show receipt, or show you got one from PD. Or... get a safe and complete the safe affidavit upon purchase. After a few purchases, you'll not only want a safe anyway, it's in your own best interest.

DEFINITELY SOUNDS LIKE A TURNERS. IT'S RIDICULOUS, ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I REFUSE TO DO PPT'S THERE. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THE LOCK IS FACTORY NEW IN A SEALED PLASTIC BAG WITHIN THE CASE THEY'LL STILL MAKE YOU BUY THEIRS, ANYTHING TO MAKE A BUCK THESE DAYS. IN RECENT PPT'S I'VE DONE, THE SHOPS I FREQUENT DON'T MAKE YOU BUY ANOTHER AS LONG AS YOU HAVE YOUR OWN INCLUDED OR GUN SAFE INFORMATION, MUCH MORE SIMPLE AND STRAIGHTFORWARD.

Every time this topic appears, I pop into the thread and post the link to the wiki article on locks -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Buying_and_selling_firearms_in_California#Locks.2C _Safes.2C_and_Laws

And invariably, after that, there are a few posts that suggest that the posters have not followed the link.

C'mon, folks!

That is the single best explanation of locks, safes, and both California and Federal law on those things you can find anywhere.

paul0660
02-25-2012, 12:56 PM
That is the single best explanation of locks, safes, and both California and Federal law on those things you can find anywhere.

But it would be better, bordering on perfect, if shall include or
be accompanied by a firearms safety device were highlighted. I think that there is a disconnect between the raw code and the following 30 day, guns safe exemption etc. exceptions.

Turner relies on this confuseion to sell locks. So does Bullseye.

ACE LT
02-25-2012, 2:13 PM
But it would be better, bordering on perfect, if shall include or
be accompanied by a firearms safety device were highlighted. I think that there is a disconnect between the raw code and the following 30 day, guns safe exemption etc. exceptions.

Turner relies on this confuseion to sell locks. So does Bullseye.


:clap:
PAUL 0660 - BRAVO! LIKE I SAID ANYTHING TO MAKE A BUCK...

Librarian
02-25-2012, 3:33 PM
See revisions - always can use improvements - but the part that I was actually referring to was the persistent 'use the safe' when BATFE incompetence, amply explained at the wiki, says that no longer works for handguns.

paul0660
02-25-2012, 3:35 PM
My hat off, once again.

helpme
02-25-2012, 4:28 PM
Welcome to California, that's generally how it goes out here.

The Gleam
02-25-2012, 5:24 PM
Does not work for handguns, per Federal law.

I realize that; but the original post says he was buying a rifle, thus my point. Believe me, I'm WELL aware of this - :43:

...but for handguns, because BATFE has not yet ruled, the safe affidavit is NOT acceptable, and buyers may expect to purchase a gun lock with each handgun.

paul0660
02-25-2012, 5:30 PM
I realize that; but the original post says he was buying a rifle, thus my point. Believe me, I'm WELL aware of this - :43:

Well then, just include your full knowledge when you post, without assuming others'. It really does work better, that way.

The Gleam
02-25-2012, 5:35 PM
Well then, just include your full knowledge when you post, without assuming others'. It really does work better, that way.

Umm. His post above says:

I recently purchased a rifle from a Calguns member. The rifle came with a cable lock.

So must I now qualify EVERYTHING in a novella format for those that do not adhere to the original information at hand? Shall I publish a book on the matter? Should one ASSUME that I should also ASSUME more, and discuss in a three-part series that we should ALSO examine the need for a bullet button because PERHAPS he is buying a rifle that just also happens to be a Romanian AKM? Should we also cover EVERY possible scenario that is OFF-TOPIC merely because we feel a need to add more than is actually being queried? Hey, let's also talk about how to buy and sell Pre-1976 vehicles in California by chance that the original poster may be doing that as well.

No.

paul0660
02-25-2012, 5:41 PM
I'm WELL aware of this

So stick it in there. It takes two seconds, makes you seem informed, as you are.

I noted it because many people read these threads partially, or without backround.

Two seconds..........

paul0660
02-25-2012, 5:44 PM
So must I now qualify EVERYTHING in a novella format for those that do not adhere to the original information at hand? Shall I publish a book on the matter? Should one ASSUME that I should also ASSUME more, and discuss in a three-part series that we should ALSO examine the need for a bullet button because PERHAPS he is buying a rifle that just also happens to be a Romanian AKM? Should we also cover EVERY possible scenario that is OFF-TOPIC merely because we feel a need to add more than is actually being queried? Hey, let's also talk about how to buy and sell Pre-1976 vehicles in California by chance that the original poster may be doing that as well.

I did you a favor and did not read the above.

Librarian
02-25-2012, 6:46 PM
Umm. His post above says:



So must I now qualify EVERYTHING in a novella format for those that do not adhere to the original information at hand? Shall I publish a book on the matter? Should one ASSUME that I should also ASSUME more, and discuss in a three-part series that we should ALSO examine the need for a bullet button because PERHAPS he is buying a rifle that just also happens to be a Romanian AKM? Should we also cover EVERY possible scenario that is OFF-TOPIC merely because we feel a need to add more than is actually being queried? Hey, let's also talk about how to buy and sell Pre-1976 vehicles in California by chance that the original poster may be doing that as well.

No.

Imagine how I feel ...

Please, contribute at whatever level you find convenient.

hkim562
03-08-2012, 8:56 AM
So an update on my recent experience with a PPT at Centerfire Firearms in Riverside. I intiate a PPT at Centerfire Firearms. No issue. I buy a gun lock as required by California laws. One of the sales guys says "when you pick up the gun it will have the lock on it. ". 10 days pass and I pick up the gun. I take a quick look at my firearm (M&P 15) and go in my way. Drive home in Orange County. I get home and inspect all the items in case.....noticed there was no gun lock. So I called Centerfire Firearms and told the
I would drive back but it was too far. Salesman tells me that we don't ship anything and I have to pick it up. So I guess the moral of my story is make sure you check to have everything when you buy someone or process. PPT at Centerfire firearms ins Riverside because they won't care about you once your transaction is complete or better yet don't do business with stores that has shady business practices.

Gary13
03-29-2012, 9:15 AM
Instead of starting a new thread, I thought I would add something that happened to me yesterday.

I agreed to purchase a handgun from two different Calguns sellers, one to be completed Tuesday, one Wednesday. Knowing this, I stopped by Walmart on the way home Monday and picked up two Winchester 363035 locks, that on the DOJ website are listed as being ok for semi auto handguns.

http://safetydevice.doj.ca.gov/dsearch2.asp?select=fmake

Roster of Approved Firearms Safety Devices - Search by Device


Search results for: 3/29/2012

Device Make: Winchester
Device Model: 363035
Text Description: Auto-loading rifles, bolt action rifles, semi-automatic shotguns, pump action shotguns, double and single action revolvers, auto-loading pistols, single shot rifles, single shot shotguns, with openings and/or chambers large enough to accept a .300 inch diameter cable.

No firearms have been certified for this device.

On tuesday I went to do the PPT and had no problems. On wednesday, went back to the same exact FFL, but different employee, and he looks up this:

http://safetydevice.doj.ca.gov/fsearch_resp_new.asp

Search results for: 3/29/2012

Make: Glock
Model: G34



FIREARM
MAKE FIREARM
MODEL FIREARM
CALIBER BARREL
LENGTH DEVICE
MAKE DEVICE
MODEL DEVICE
TYPE TEXT
DESCRIPTION
Glock G34 9mm 5.32 Uni-Hardware Ltd 30mm Cable Lock
Glock G34 9mm 5.32 Uni-Hardware Ltd LPV/300 Cable Lock

Since the Winchester was not listed I ended up buying a lock from them.

For the Sig I purchased on tuesday:

http://safetydevice.doj.ca.gov/fsearch_resp_new.asp

Make: Sig Arms
Model: P220 Two-Tone / Steel, Alloy



FIREARM
MAKE FIREARM
MODEL FIREARM
CALIBER BARREL
LENGTH DEVICE
MAKE DEVICE
MODEL DEVICE
TYPE TEXT
DESCRIPTION
Sig Arms P220 Two-Tone / Steel, Alloy .45 ACP 4.4" Master Lock 106 Trigger Lock
Sig Arms P220 Two-Tone / Steel, Alloy All All Master Lock 107 Cable Lock Autoloading rifles, bolt action rifles, pump action shotguns, semiautomatic shotguns, double action revolvers, single action revolvers, auto loading pistols, single shot rifles, single shot shotguns, and single shot pistols, with barrels, chambers and/or openings large enough to accept a 0.215 inch (5.5mm) diameter cable.
Sig Arms P220 Two-Tone / Steel, Alloy All All Master Lock 107PCS Cable Lock Autoloading rifles, bolt action rifles, pump action shotguns, semiautomatic shotguns, double action revolvers, single action revolvers, auto loading pistols, single shot rifles, single shot shotguns, and single shot pistols, with barrels, chambers and/or openings large enough to accept a 0.215 inch (5.5mm) diameter cable.

Again, it does not show the Winchester, but the employee was fine with it. I could pursue it, but for the difference of $5, hardly worth it. Otherwise, the FFL was great and I will be using them in the future.

It is amazing though how different FFL's handle this. At one FFL I have done transactions at they do not require me to purchase a lock. At another FFL that I used to sell a handgun recently they were going to make the buyer purchase a lock, but I gave him a lock I brought with me, one I have had for several years, and he was fine with that.

SDM44
03-29-2012, 12:30 PM
that sounds like turners call a different gun shop
DEFINITELY SOUNDS LIKE A TURNERS. IT'S RIDICULOUS, ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I REFUSE TO DO PPT'S THERE.


I always http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:honda-tech.com/get//images/smilies/ugh.gif when I see people's immediate reaction to it being a Turners in these types of threads.

I do a lot of PPT's at the Turners in WC and I've never had to supply a gun lock if there wasn't one (3 pistol PPT's in the last 5 months had no locks).


Regardless if they're in the right or in the wrong, read the laws per Librarian's link.

USMC 82-86
03-29-2012, 7:49 PM
I hope for their sake that they are keeping copies of those receipts for the lock purchase in the file at the store. :eek::nuts:

y3kspoo
03-30-2012, 3:05 AM
If you purchase a gun with the original equipment that includes a lock, have the seller write up a receipt for the lock separate to the initial sale. There is no law that states that he has to sell the unit in the same kit that it was originally purchased. You will have the lock, you will have the receipt and it will all be in the timeframe required and meet the code. It was hard to argue against the logic in this transaction and counter allowed it to go through, no conflicts.
Good luck to all...
=Bill