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Blackhawk556
02-24-2012, 5:21 PM
With all the advancements manufactures have done in the last 10-20 years does it really matter? The reason I ask is because every time someone doesn't post a rounds count on a for sale gun, 10 people ask the same question.

How many rounds down the pipe?



Sent from Los Alamos Nuclear Facility

CSACANNONEER
02-24-2012, 5:38 PM
Yep, per unwritten calgun's rules: anything over 200 rounds is not marketable on calguns. At 201 rounds, all guns loose 50-75% of their value. But, if a gun only has 50 rounds through it, one is supposed to ask MSRP plus 20% for it since, it's proven to work and "not even broken in yet".

llamatrnr
02-24-2012, 5:55 PM
Yep, per unwritten calgun's rules: anything over 200 rounds is not marketable on calguns. At 201 rounds, all guns loose 50-75% of their value. But, if a gun only has 50 rounds through it, one is supposed to ask MSRP plus 20% for it since, it's proven to work and "not even broken in yet".

round count ; fixed!;)

dan12580
02-24-2012, 6:12 PM
i get a kick out of the guys who say "50 rounds fired to FUNCTION TEST". no- you bought a gun and now want to sell or found something hard to come by and couldnt control yourself and shot a box of ammo. even though the 10 day wait may be retarded, it doesnt make our guns retarded to have to go through it.

tuna quesadilla
02-24-2012, 6:15 PM
With all the advancements manufactures have done in the last 10-20 years does it really matter? The reason I ask is because every time someone doesn't post a rounds count on a for sale gun, 10 people ask the same question.

How many rounds down the pipe?



Sent from Los Alamos Nuclear Facility

With all the advancements manufacturers have done in the last 10-20 years does it really matter? The reason I ask is because every time someone doesn't post the mileage on a for-sale car, 10 people ask the same question... "How many miles?"

scarville
02-24-2012, 6:16 PM
When bragging in the Calguns forums about how reliable your gun is, it has fired 100,000 plus rounds, only cleaned once yet never had a single failure of any kind. When selling, it was only shot every other Sunday by an elderly lady with arthritic hands and was thoroughly cleaned and inspected by a gunsmith after every range trip.

Yes round count matters. So does type of ammunition and the maintenance schedule. Before buying a used gun be sure to inspect it and know what to look for.

Remember, everybody lies ... Except me.

ckprax
02-24-2012, 8:13 PM
If it checks out ok, i don't care how many rounds it's seen. I buy used guns almost exclusively and have no idea the round count. I dont keep track of how many rounds I shoot either.

Fishslayer
02-24-2012, 9:16 PM
Yep, per unwritten calgun's rules: anything over 200 rounds is not marketable on calguns. At 201 rounds, all guns loose 50-75% of their value. But, if a gun only has 50 rounds through it, one is supposed to ask MSRP plus 20% for it since, it's proven to work and "not even broken in yet".


And no gun for sale on the Calguns auction WTS board has more than 200 rounds through it. ;)

Buy the gun, not the story.

Blackhawk556
02-24-2012, 9:22 PM
With all the advancements manufacturers have done in the last 10-20 years does it really matter? The reason I ask is because every time someone doesn't post the mileage on a for-sale car, 10 people ask the same question... "How many miles?"

You seriously can't compare a car to a gun.

Sent from Los Alamos Nuclear Facility

Press Check
02-24-2012, 9:26 PM
Personally, unless we're talking about 10's of thousands of rounds, I could care less. In the case of a 1911, the more rounds, the better. Know what to look for, though.

tuna quesadilla
02-24-2012, 9:49 PM
You seriously can't compare a car to a gun.

Sent from Los Alamos Nuclear Facility

Why not?

They're both mechanical devices that wear somewhat proportionally to the amount of [wear units] they have accumulated.

For a gun, the wear unit is a round fired.
For a car, the wear unit is a mile traversed.

Would you go to the car dealership and buy a car with 200,000 miles on it?

And you expect me to jump on the classifieds here and buy an IDPA competitor's practice gun with 15,000 rounds through it?

Anything mechanical has a service life, bud. When you're talking 200 rds vs 500 rds vs 1000 rds it's not a big deal, but if it's up in the multiples of thousands I want to know about it.

meaty-btz
02-24-2012, 9:54 PM
Actually, I am always suspicious of a low round count. Not because I just don't believe it, but because I will always suspect someone is dumping a "lemon" gun. Bought it, has problems, drop it like a hot potato into some poor saps hands. No way can you be proficient let alone get a "feel" for a gun on 50 rounds.

So when someone is selling a gun with a low round count my first question will always be: What malfunction did you experience that made you want to sell it?

With a High Round count gun I always would ask: What parts are worn sloppy that you now want to dump your worn-out junk onto someone else?

My personal favorite "low round count" guns are the USP's that are a decade or more old sold as 500 rounds or less. A quick gander at the pictures shows heavy wearing on the contact surfaces. If it was 500 rounds that wearing would not be there. Nope.. looks like a well used gun.. so again, what problem is making you want to sell it.

Even worse are the "bundled" deals. I don't want your crap, if I did, I would say so. Your bundle does not represent value. Instead it is a clever way to try and recoup your money from the exceptionally over valued price you paid for it in this lame *** state.

I hate to say it but I look at used guns in our classified section as pure "Used Care Salesman" experience. Maybe some of you guys have had good experience but I don't trust any one. Especially when it comes to a mechanical device.

G60
02-24-2012, 10:00 PM
Not really since no gun has ever had more than "200 rounds down the pipe" amirite? Or at least that's what the classifieds tells me :P

Oceanbob
02-24-2012, 10:10 PM
Round count isn't a big deal breaker. I look for wear and tear from holsters and nicks. That turns me off unless the price is low.

For 1911s it does matter. A 1911 with 5,000 rounds might have a frame crack (Colt). A Glock with 5,000 rounds really doesn't matter much considering a new recoil spring is only 8 bucks and usually a good cleaning is all it needs.

But wear and general appearance is important to me. I once bought a 2 year old GLOCK that looked nice. At the first cleaning the black ink (Gun Black Marker) came off and showed the slide had some serious holster wear. :(

Buyer beware.

As for the HK I recently sold. It was an HK USP .40 that I bought in 94ish. I shot a few boxes thru it, cleaned it and put it back in the box. Didn't shoot it ever again; sold it for $650. Looked brand new. (bought it a SOUTHLAND GUNS...a gun store that the ATF shut down here in Orange County..LOL)

Same for my Beretta 92SF INOX that I bought in 93. Very low round count, looked new, shot it once, back in the box. For instance I have a brand new GLOCK 23 GEN 2...NIB..never shot it. I had others I shot for fun however.

Some guns I own are 20 years old and have never been shot. NIB.

Be well, Bob

Striker
02-24-2012, 10:15 PM
Personally, if I'm the buyer, yes it is important to me. May or may not be a deal breaker, but I certainly want to know.

meaty-btz
02-24-2012, 10:18 PM
Round count isn't a big deal breaker. I look for wear and tear from holsters and nicks. That turns me off unless the price is low.

For 1911s it does matter. A 1911 with 5,000 rounds might have a frame crack (Colt). A Glock with 5,000 rounds really doesn't matter much considering a new recoil spring is only 8 bucks and usually a good cleaning is all it needs.

But wear and general appearance is important to me. I once bought a 2 year old GLOCK that looked nice. At the first cleaning the black ink (Gun Black Marker) came off and showed the slide had some serious holster wear. :(

Buyer beware.

As for the HK I recently sold. It was an HK USP .40 that I bought in 94ish. I shot a few boxes thru it, cleaned it and put it back in the box. Didn't shoot it ever again; sold it for $650. Looked brand new. (bought it a SOUTHLAND GUNS...a gun store that the ATF shut down here in Orange County..LOL)

Same for my Beretta 92SF INOX that I bought in 93. Very low round count, looked new, shot it once, back in the box. For instance I have a brand new GLOCK 23 GEN 2...NIB..never shot it. I had others I shot for fun however.

Some guns I own are 20 years old and have never been shot. NIB.

Be well, Bob
If your gun was low round count, it would be pretty obvious if your pictures were good. Esp USPs.

I am not dashing all low round count guns but it is pretty clear when they are not and people insist that they are. Even 500 rounds will not introduce polishing on certain surfaces of a USP. A thousand should result in brightness and smoothness of a fashion in certain areas, 4-5K rounds and you start to see what many people advertise as a low round count USP with wide bright marks that are mirror bright representing long and repeated metal on metal rubbing that does not MAR but instead polishes. A sign of use.

In revolvers I would demand to have a well lighted shot looking just above the force-cone. Looking for flame discoloration and then, later, divoting, and flame cutting. You can't hide that w/o bad pictures or intentionally hiding those features. They represent wear as a result of use. It isn't bad, but I would rather someone was honest with me, especially when dealing with a critical item that my life may depend on. It needs to be AS ADVERTISED or its total BS.

You an always spot the NIB safe-queens. For one, they are usually gorgeous and just amazing looking and usually backed up with quality photography and prices to match.

Tank 57
02-24-2012, 10:19 PM
I don't think it matters.Condition is what matters.If you are buying a used gun,you should know what to look for.If you don't know what to look for,you should probably buy new.

orangeusa
02-24-2012, 10:29 PM
I don't think it matters.Condition is what matters.If you are buying a used gun,you should know what to look for.If you don't know what to look for,you should probably buy new.

^^^ Yup. I have bought and sold many Berettas (it's just what I like, but substitute any brand name). I know what to look for, and can tell a gun with 100 rounds vs. a gun with 1k rounds and one with 5k rounds.

But as OP has mentioned, it really is not that big of a deal. I get a LOT more worried if a gun has rust than if it has holster wear... :)

.

Fishslayer
02-24-2012, 10:56 PM
My personal favorite "low round count" guns are the USP's that are a decade or more old sold as 500 rounds or less. A quick gander at the pictures shows heavy wearing on the contact surfaces. If it was 500 rounds that wearing would not be there. Nope.. looks like a well used gun.. so again, what problem is making you want to sell it.


Most cop guns & some civvies get "carried much, shot little." They'll show holster wear but be good & tight mechanically. I could see a gun being carried for 10 years & have 500 - 1000 rounds through it.

Blackhawk556
02-24-2012, 10:58 PM
I still don't think you can compare a gun to a car. Yrs they're bought mechanical but the car goes through rain, mud, snow, heat, and other harsh conditions. The damage can be hard to spot. Rust under the car can be hard to see. With a gun, you can open it and inspect it closely. I guess where round count does matter is when it comes to replacing springs but those are usually cheap.

CSACANNONEER
02-24-2012, 11:07 PM
Many used guns have a lot of wear due to being carried and/or heavy field use. This does not equate to a high round count just a lot of wear. I'd compare a gun to a motorhome. Some get driven a lot and others get parked but worn out by someone living in them. Some have a combination of wear. Guns can have similar wear patterns. Round count can mean a lot to a rifle chambered in an overbored catridge. But, the worst that will happen is that one will need to spend $300-$1000 on a new barrel. Anyone buying a gun like that will know what to look for in the first place and decide if the asking price is within the price the buyer thinks the gun is worth to him/her.

mr00jimbo
02-24-2012, 11:14 PM
I think it matters because the more rounds, the more chance that they have been neglecting preventative maintenance.

I have purchased pre-owned guns with low round counts, my Sig P220 unknown (although it seems low) my 1911 Colt 300, my Sig P226 Stainless 300, both from very reputable people and in immaculate condition.

But I will say this; it matters to me most on aluminum alloy framed guns. Steel and polymer, whatever, but alloy seems to have a comparatively shorter life span, especially if there has been neglect.

When I bought my P220 9mm, I didn't know much about guns. But thankfully, it seems to be of a low round count. If I could do it again, I'd be more hesitant unless I knew how many were in the gun. If somebody has shot 10-15 thousand rounds, especially +P ammo, that's going to affect the gun's life span.
I like to own firearms that I could shoot them my whole life and not wear them out, even though I'm a very low mileage shooter.

Take the Beretta 92FS. Say the frame has a life span of 50,000 rounds (Yes, this is a lot of rounds and a lot of MONEY, I know.) Somebody shoots 10,000 through it. That's 20% of the gun's life.

This is a non issue for most people, but just how I am. :)

Blackhawk556
02-24-2012, 11:47 PM
Anyone know how long barrels are spouse to last?

Sent from Los Alamos Nuclear Facility

Peter W Bush
02-25-2012, 12:16 AM
Most of the time I don't really care. However, I have been shopping for a nice precision rifle lately and with some cartridges 200 rounds means 25%+ of the barrel life is gone.

It's actually kind of funny. I put a gun up for sale here for the first time in a very very long time. It actually had 40 rounds fired out of it, but as I was typing it I thought "oh crap nobody is going to believe me" lol.

bruss01
02-25-2012, 12:24 AM
With all the advancements manufactures have done in the last 10-20 years does it really matter? The reason I ask is because every time someone doesn't post a rounds count on a for sale gun, 10 people ask the same question.

How many rounds down the pipe?



Sent from Los Alamos Nuclear Facility

When they invent a "round-count-ometer" on guns that can't be fudged, then round count matters. Until then, "round count" is whatever the seller says it is. Which can be dead-nutz on the money, or off by two or three orders of magnitude. The buyer will never know which. Consequently, such a statement by a seller will only be taken at face value by a gullible buyer. A non-gullible buyer will have to disregard the round count figure offered by the seller entirely and judge the piece based on it's own current intrinsic merits. Which is as it should be. If it looks like a new gun, and shoots like a new gun, then who's to say it's not essentially a new gun? But if it looks like a worn-down workhorse ready for the glue factory, and shoots likewise, then it's obviously not new and thus is worth less than a new gun. It would take a fairly sophisticated gun aficionado to determine where in the spectrum between those two states the average "for sale" gun falls.

It's nice to be offered a round count for a gun by a seller, but if you take it seriously then please don't ever shop for a used car without adult supervision unless you are the Dahli Lama or some other similarly charitable individual..

Speaking personally, I own 30+ guns. Do you think I kept records on how much I shot each one every range trip? did I shoot 100 rounds through this one, and 200 through that one? Or was it the other way around? Have I shot this one a half dozen times? Or was it that one over there that's very similar? You can see that simple human error figures into this as much as honesty or wishful-thinking. A round count based on a verbal account fetched from fallible human memory is about as valuable as trying to write down next week's winning lottery numbers. Neither one is likely to be right.

tbc
02-25-2012, 12:44 AM
OK. I confess. I am not being truthful on my round counts. I actually rounded the number UP when put them up for sale. Folks, when owning multiple firearms (ten or so), it is not easy to put thousands of rounds through each one.

Freq18Hz
02-25-2012, 1:41 AM
Round count doesn't matter today, and it never ever did. Round count is for people that don't know how to inspect what they are buying.

-Freq

GM4spd
02-25-2012, 4:38 AM
Round count is a term almost exclusive to this board. It's like the "post" count
which is for people who don't have a life,wife, or a job.;)

Pete

sirgiles
02-25-2012, 5:24 AM
if and when we stop embellishing, round count matters.
till then, buyer beware.

shooterdude
02-25-2012, 6:54 AM
Personally, if I'm the buyer, yes it is important to me. May or may not be a deal breaker, but I certainly want to know.

How does knowing this impact your perception?

shooterdude
02-25-2012, 6:58 AM
If you were in the military you would be handed a pistol that could have tens of thousands of rounds through it and may or may not have been well maintained or minimally maintained. You are also EXPECTED to shoot people trying very hard to kill you.

What are you going to do...ask for the gun with less than 50,000 rounds?:facepalm:

Mstnpete
02-25-2012, 7:01 AM
A perfect example is .... buying a used car, you want to know what the mileage is....... same with guns.

shooterdude
02-25-2012, 7:20 AM
A perfect example is .... buying a used car, you want to know what the mileage is....... same with guns.

What round count is good? Bad? Why?

sirgiles
02-25-2012, 7:24 AM
A perfect example is .... buying a used car, you want to know what the mileage is....... same with guns.

odometer rollback has a minimum penalty of $2k.
guns do not have a counter and buyer suffers no penalty for lying.

emy
02-25-2012, 7:45 AM
If the gun was well maintained round count shouldn't matter too much. I have a 1st gen Glock 17 with about 25k through it and still looks good and shoots great. Just look before you buy .The gun with less round may not shoot better than a gun with 500rd through it.

Mstnpete
02-25-2012, 7:57 AM
If the gun was well maintained round count shouldn't matter too much. I have a 1st gen Glock 17 with about 25k through it and still looks good and shoots great. Just look before you buy .The gun with less round may not shoot better than a gun with 500rd through it.

I have Glocks I use for competition and have placed more rounds on them. :)
But if I do decide to sell. I will not ask close to brand new pricing.
I shoot at least 200-300 per weekend.

On a high round count , it's always best to inspect the weapon first, specially on pistols. If there's to much play on a slide than I would think twice.

Uxi
02-25-2012, 8:04 AM
When bragging in the Calguns forums about how reliable your gun is, it has fired 100,000 plus rounds, only cleaned once yet never had a single failure of any kind. When selling, it was only shot every other Sunday by an elderly lady with arthritic hands and was thoroughly cleaned and inspected by a gunsmith after every range trip.


Insert clapping gif here. That was great. :D

I would tend to think that modern weapons aren't as reliable as WW2 vintage items. For all the advancements in technology, the race has mostly been to the bottom line. Tiny springs, etc are one thing but even the main receivers, etc. No evidence or anything, just what my gut feeling would be. That said, most casual shooters will outlive their weapons useful lifespan.

Grumpyoldretiredcop
02-25-2012, 10:22 AM
I use it as a check on the seller's honesty. If they tell me that it's only had 200 rounds down the pipe, and the wear patterns tell me differently, then I know that the seller cannot be trusted and I'm less likely to buy that item.

Tell me honestly or tell me you don't know if you don't. Don't try to blow smoke up my plumber's crack as that'll cost you the sale.

beretta929mm
02-25-2012, 10:24 AM
Does car mileage really matter these days?

Blackhawk556
02-25-2012, 11:12 AM
Does car mileage really matter these days?

You have to remember that cars have many, many more moving parts. Plus, remember all the electrical stuff. Guns don't have all this. I can't
Remember when was the last time I took my 1911 to an electrician to fix a short it had;)

Sent from Los Alamos Nuclear Facility

CSACANNONEER
02-25-2012, 11:22 AM
You have to remember that cars have many, many more moving parts. Plus, remember all the electrical stuff. Guns don't have all this. I can't
Remember when was the last time I took my 1911 to an electrician to fix a short it had;)

Sent from Los Alamos Nuclear Facility

Electronic triggers have been around for close to half a century now. Electronic optics are all the rage right now. Maybe you just like driving the old Model Ts and don't like the newer models????

chim-chim7
02-25-2012, 12:51 PM
Does round count matter? On modern guns not so much. What matters is how well the gun was maintained during ownership.

ap3572001
02-25-2012, 1:05 PM
My agency is using Glocks. We only shoot (even for practice) the very best JHP ammunition). Each gun is serviced, parts updated, magazines have new springs etc. I You got a pistlo like that even after 20000 it wiill be just fine.

Dhena81
02-25-2012, 1:30 PM
I think it matters but I think it matters to much for some people. I was selling a great gun last week that only had 1500 rounds through it and people kept trying to low ball me because of it. I think 1500 rounds is nothing but I think it might seem high since lots of buyers never put 1500 rounds down range in their lifetime. They just want a safe queen like a guy buying a jeep with rock tires to go to the mall.

meaty-btz
02-25-2012, 4:46 PM
Most cop guns & some civvies get "carried much, shot little." They'll show holster wear but be good & tight mechanically. I could see a gun being carried for 10 years & have 500 - 1000 rounds through it.

Holster wear shows wear on holster wear locations.

Firing wear is the only way to wear on bearing surfaces.

Why does round count matter? It is a litmus test for honesty of the buyer and a "quick assessment" of the arm in question.

Step one: find ad for gun you want
Step two: examine advertised usage (round count or an honest dunno but it was xxxxx)
Step three: examine pictures of arm in question to observe discrepancies
Step Four: Compare Pricing Structure vs new vs auction vs tax, etc. Aka the Economic Assessment of the Arm.

In my case step 4 is the sticky point and is based on previous points. If the seller claims low usage but the arm shows heavy bearing surface wear then I am going to assume the seller is a lier and his maint cycle is now in question. I will then low-ball because I don't trust the seller as he has proven dishonest in his first contact with me. I will presume fault in arm or heavy wear and will account my own repair costs and time against the value of the arm.

So the first thing people need to be is honest, with themselves and others, especially when selling something. It is even more dishonest to inflate pricing to meet some psychological failing as a result of knowing one has "overpaid" when one acquired the item in question. I was in a commissioned sales position at one point in my life. I made a killing. I was the only honest salesman and before I left I had them lining up to be served by me and me alone. I never sold them anything the didn't need and built a trust relationship that made me cold hard cash by the bucketful. As such, I despise dishonest sales people.

That is life. Buck up and be an honest seller and then you can lambaste the customer justly for being a dishonest person but you start with yourself, not the other guy. If you have to hype a product or fluff the description you are then certainly attempting to hide some product deficiency or attempting to make an over-abundant profit on something you KNOW to lack that value. Good product sells itself based on it's own qualities and value. If it cannot be accurately represented and sold at that value then you are over-valuing it.

SilverTauron
02-25-2012, 7:45 PM
Ive wondered about this being used as a criterion for the worth of a pistol.

I have seen firearms in person that looked like crap on the outside but had little to no breech wear marks on the slide, and ive seen shiny pistols that look like a coal mine internally . A gun with 10,000 rounds that's been cleaned and oiled with springs properly maintained is a much better buy than a piece with 1000 rounds that's never been cleaned or maintained with the factory lube still in the weapon.

Using "round count" as a buying criterion can cause problems where sellers state that gun has "less than 100 rounds through it!" , but the piece has less than 100 rounds because the extractor was jacked up from the factory and the owner never bothered to fix it. Beware what you wish for, as the saying goes.

blakdawg
02-25-2012, 8:40 PM
I don't keep track of how many rounds go through each of my guns and it's hard to imagine someone who shoots a lot and enjoys it doing so - at least for the types of guns I enjoy. The idea that someone's going to keep track of "round count" for a modern polymer pistol like a Glock/Springfield/S&W is ludicrous to me. If my $500 pistol breaks after I've shot $10,000 worth of ammo, do I give a ****? No. Same thing for AR's and AK's.

The cost of a modern polymer pistol or assault rifle, compared to the cost of ammo, equipment, time, travel, training, range time, and everything else associated with shooting, is comparatively small. If a modern gun costs $500 and is good for 50,000 rounds, that means the equipment cost is $.01 per round. If some random seller understates the "round count" for his gun by 2500 rounds, that's $25. I've spent that much on gas driving to an FFL to complete a transfer.

Blackhawk556
02-26-2012, 1:53 AM
I think it matters but I think it matters to much for some people. I was selling a great gun last week that only had 1500 rounds through it and people kept trying to low ball me because of it. I think 1500 rounds is nothing but I think it might seem high since lots of buyers never put 1500 rounds down range in their lifetime. They just want a safe queen like a guy buying a jeep with rock tires to go to the mall.

For some reason 1,500 does seem to push people away. When talking about having something reliable, 50,000 rounds seems to break in a pistol just fine. :D


Sent from Los Alamos Nuclear Facility

chim-chim7
02-26-2012, 3:42 AM
For some reason 1,500 does seem to push people away. When talking about having something reliable, 50,000 rounds seems to break in a pistol just fine. :D


Sent from Los Alamos Nuclear Facility



I guess you not suprised either when someone thinks 1,500 rounds and the gun is worn out. I actually had one member say to me, "you put 1,500 rounds on that gun in one year'? That's a lot. Then asked me a page worth of questions on how it was maintained. What ammo I used. What lube was used. My cleaning procedure, my method for field stripped the gun. How was it stored? Was it shot indoors or outdoors. Did I ever rapid fire it? Any broken parts? Ever use reloads? Ever been dropped? Ever had a round jam? Is there any rifeling left in the barrel? Were the extra mags stored with rounds in them? Was a mag stored inside the gun? Plus about 10 more useless questions. I knew if I answered his questions I would get another 20 questions back.

I only responed with "this gun is not for you, you might want to look at new guns".

DrewTheBrave
02-26-2012, 7:23 AM
I use it as a check on the seller's honesty. If they tell me that it's only had 200 rounds down the pipe, and the wear patterns tell me differently, then I know that the seller cannot be trusted and I'm less likely to buy that item.

Tell me honestly or tell me you don't know if you don't. Don't try to blow smoke up my plumber's crack as that'll cost you the sale.

Couldn't have said it better myself!

sephy
02-26-2012, 7:27 AM
I guess you not suprised either when someone thinks 1,500 rounds and the gun is worn out. I actually had one member say to me, "you put 1,500 rounds on that gun in one year'? That's a lot. Then asked me a page worth of questions on how it was maintained. What ammo I used. What lube was used. My cleaning procedure, my method for field stripped the gun. How was it stored? Was it shot indoors or outdoors. Did I ever rapid fire it? Any broken parts? Ever use reloads? Ever been dropped? Ever had a round jam? Is there any rifeling left in the barrel? Were the extra mags stored with rounds in them? Was a mag stored inside the gun? Plus about 10 more useless questions. I knew if I answered his questions I would get another 20 questions back.

I only responed with "this gun is not for you, you might want to look at new guns".

Hahaha I like that. I know if I ever tried to sell my CZ it would be the same story. Good thing I vowed to never sell a gun again! ;)

den888
02-26-2012, 7:38 AM
It provides only part of the picture. You should ask if there have been repairs, parts have been replaced and if it has ever been sent back to the factory for anything, such as a warranty recall.

Speedpower
02-26-2012, 7:40 AM
How can it be proven that it only have 50 rounds through the gun?

CSACANNONEER
02-26-2012, 7:53 AM
I've got a handgun in lockdown right now. The seller told me that he was the second owner and only put 50 rounds through it before deciding to part with it. I happen to believe him. The gun looks new. He's a lifetime contributor here. He really had no reason to lie about it and, the simple fact is that I DID NOT CARE. I would have given him the whole $90 he was asking for his .380 HP even if it had 10K through it.

cannon
02-26-2012, 8:02 AM
Round count does not matter tome. Condition does.

Most folks have no idea how many rounds they have shot through a gun I know I don't.

Mickey D
02-26-2012, 8:08 AM
If it checks out ok, i don't care how many rounds it's seen. I buy used guns almost exclusively and have no idea the round count. I dont keep track of how many rounds I shoot either.

^^ Exactly

Condition and care are evident when inspecting a firearm. I don't care about round count. In every other forum I visit, few mention or consider round count being a factor, except here.

USMC 82-86
02-26-2012, 9:37 AM
I recently traded one of my G19's for a Beretta 92 FS and the G19 I traded had a little over 500 rounds down the pipe and the Beretta had at least that many if not more. I would not hesitate to use either in a home defense situation. Both guns run smooth and show very little in terms of any wear. I have never been concerned about round count unless this is going to be a gun I plan to run hard and often but even then that number has to be pretty high. I have another G19 that has a little over 6,000 rounds through it and it would be hard for most people to find any wear other than the contact area between the top of the barrel hood and the slide and that is minimal even now. The recoil spring and trigger are still going strong.

I have one last note about round count even if a gun has 10,000 rounds through her based on the use by most shooters on this site they will never reach the expected life of that gun. I see people at the range and hear people here state that they may shoot 500 rounds in a year if they are lucky. If you are one of those people you will never reach a round count even close to approaching the life of that gun. I shoot between 150-300 rounds everytime I go to the range and at times I will shoot more. I take good care of all my guns and that helps to maintain the operation of that weapon as well as the physical appearance of my guns. I forgot to mention the G19 has yet to have a failure in a little over 6,000 rounds. The Beretta 92 I just picked up already has 350 rounds through it plus the 100 rounds I put through it on Feb 4th the day I traded for this gun and I just picked it up on Valentine's day. The Beretta as I mentioned was used and I am now the third owner with no real idea of the round count, but between myself and the last owner it has at least 950+ rounds through her but it runs like a champ.

12voltguy
02-26-2012, 11:33 AM
Yep, per unwritten calgun's rules: anything over 200 rounds is not marketable on calguns. At 201 rounds, all guns loose 50-75% of their value. But, if a gun only has 50 rounds through it, one is supposed to ask MSRP plus 20% for it since, it's proven to work and "not even broken in yet".

that is what I see:rofl:
& people pay it.....lol

shooterdude
02-26-2012, 4:46 PM
I only buy used guns from the French...they are typically only fired once or twice but dropped a few times...

c3 rolling
02-26-2012, 7:12 PM
I'm buying a non rail SA TRP with 1500 honest rounds tomorrow from a co worker. It's been flawless and already broken in so I'm paying premium (1,300 + dros) . When I see super low round counts on the marketplace, I think two things.

1. Seller does not like the gun enough to shoot it, hence selling.
2. Seller had problems with the gun, hence selling.

You would have to be a real retard to keep shooting a pistol into the 1000+ round counts when it has unresolved issues.

Shenaniguns
02-26-2012, 9:11 PM
I still don't think you can compare a gun to a car. Yrs they're bought mechanical but the car goes through rain, mud, snow, heat, and other harsh conditions. The damage can be hard to spot. Rust under the car can be hard to see. With a gun, you can open it and inspect it closely. I guess where round count does matter is when it comes to replacing springs but those are usually cheap.


Yes you can compare it, some people out there shoot 30-50,000 rounds plus a year and some guns have a service life of 30,000 rounds.