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View Full Version : We must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately


jdberger
04-03-2007, 11:34 PM
"We must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately."
-Benjamin Franklin


The latest from the Gun Guys:

http://www.gunguys.com/images/MainLogo.gif
April 3, 2007

Gun Lobby Infighting on the Second Amendment Case (http://www.gunguys.com/?p=2034)

Here’s an interesting article from one of the central figures in the DC gun ban case, showing a rift between two sides. On one side is the author, Robert A. Levy, who’s currently attempting to take down a publicly-supported firearms ban in the District of Columbia (he’s one of the attorneys in the Parker case that judges took advantage of to make their politically motivated decision (http://www.gunguys.com/?p=1993)). On the other side, strangely enough, is the NRA. And apparently, according to Levy, they’re working to take him and his case down instead. (http://www.examiner.com/a-653443~Robert_A__Levy__Should_Congress_or_the_cour ts_decide_D_C__gun_ban_s_fate_.html)

Now, in this situation, both sides are wrong, and the public is right. The DC gun ban is necessary for the safety of citizens in the District of Columbia– and it would be even more effective if it were supported by strong gun legislation in the states surrounding the District. But even though Levy is wrong about the gun ban, he’s right about the NRA– they’ll cut down anything and everything in their path to accomplish their extremist and dangerous goals.

"Parker is the first federal appellate decision to invalidate a gun control statute on Second Amendment grounds. Federal circuit courts covering 47 states have held that there’s no recourse under the Second Amendment when state and local gun regulations are challenged. That means Parker could be headed to the Supreme Court.

Enter Congress and the NRA. First, Reps. Mike Ross, D-Ark., and Mark Souder, R-Ind., introduced the D.C. Personal Protection Act. Then, on March 28, Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas, followed suit in the Senate. Both bills, pushed hard by the NRA, would repeal the D.C. gun ban.

Ordinarily, that might be a good thing. But passage of the bills would kill the Parker litigation. It isn’t possible to challenge a law that has been repealed. Yet, Sen. Hutchison claims in her press release that she favors “both a legislative and judicial remedy. I hope the Parker case goes before the Supreme Court and that the court asserts that the right to bear arms is an individual, and not a collective, right. …”

Incredible.

So the NRA is working around the clock to repeal the firearms ban before Levy can get it overturned. And Levy, of course, hopes that his case goes to the Supreme Court, because if he can get it there, and get the Supreme Court to render a decision that the Second Amendment does guarantee an individual right to own firearms (which would be a decision going against years and years of legal precedent), he thinks he can finally give gun guys the ammo they need to shoot down reasonable gun laws once and for all.

So. While Levy is hysterically counting his chickens long before they hatch, let’s look at what’s really happening here.

First, it’s important to realize that the NRA isn’t work for the American people by any means. It’s long been known that the majority of Americans are for stronger, reasonable gun laws, and the NRA has opposed those for years. No, the NRA is the gun lobby, and so they work for the gun industry. They tell their members otherwise, and fill them with thoughts of “liberty” and “tradition,” but the truth is that they work for gun manufacturers.

And gun manufacturers, apparently, don’t want to see Levy’s case get to the Supreme Court.

Why? Because though Levy is certain that he’ll get the Supreme Court to render a decision for the individual right of the Second Amendment, the gun industry isn’t taking that chance. If the Supreme Court overturns the individual right ruling, it will take away the gun lobby’s last defense against reasonable gun legislation. And that’s why the NRA is still working against Levy, even though Wayne LaPierre is trying to tell him otherwise.

There’s another problem for Levy, however. Many scholars have already stated the truth: that even if the Supreme Court upholds the politically motivated decision from the District Court, there is still good and strong reason to put (and keep) good firearms legislation on the books. Even if the Second Amendment grants an individual right to own firearms (and remember that court precedent says that it doesn’t), there’s no reason Americans should be forced to live under the tyranny of gun violence. A Supreme Court ruling in his favor still isn’t the magic bullet Levy hopes it will be.

But the NRA’s opposition to him is exactly what he thinks it is: The NRA will trample anyone it can to pass the gun industry’s extremist agenda. They’re not in this for the safety of Americans, and they’re not even in this for the “rights” of gun owners. They’re lobbying in Congress to do one thing. Even though our country is already flooded with firearms, and thousands of Americans die every year to gun violence, the NRA is pushing for laws that let them sell even more.

bg
04-03-2007, 11:58 PM
Who wrote that story ? Sounds to me like someone with an anti agenda
is trying to plant discord as well..


There’s another problem for Levy, however. Many scholars have already stated the truth: that even if the Supreme Court upholds the politically motivated decision from the District Court, there is still good and strong reason to put (and keep) good firearms legislation on the books. Even if the Second Amendment grants an individual right to own firearms (and remember that court precedent says that it doesn’t), there’s no reason Americans should be forced to live under the tyranny of gun violence. A Supreme Court ruling in his favor still isn’t the magic bullet Levy hopes it will be.If that doesn't read subliminally one sided, I don't know what does. I guess I must be reading it wrong...

jdberger
04-04-2007, 12:04 AM
Click the links.

Gun Guys make Sarah Brady look like an NRA recruiting poster. They (actually, he - it is one guy) out wackos Josh Sugarman.

That said, I really enjoy their daily emails. It's like watching my kid play t-ball. A lot of frantic misdirected activity with little effect.:D

bwiese
04-04-2007, 12:19 AM
I must thank the Gun Guys for trying to alert folks that Bill Lockyer forgot to update the banned list of AWs since 2000.

Since our campaign to list, early in 2006, did not get much attention, I think more gunnies read The Gun Guys than anyone else.

Super_tactical
04-04-2007, 2:19 AM
????

Surveyor
04-04-2007, 12:53 PM
Isn't the "Gun guy" , in Penn & Tellers Bullsh*t?

The smug A-hole with the little dog?

anotherone
04-04-2007, 1:00 PM
The author of Gun Guys is likely delusional to point of thinking that all those hits on his page are from supporters of his cause. His views are so extreme that even many gun control advocates are likely visiting the page for the same reason we are: shock value and amusement.

I reccomend a new title for his page:

"Manifestos of a Moron"

mikehaas
04-04-2007, 2:17 PM
First, it’s important to realize that the NRA isn’t work for the American people by any means. It’s long been known that the majority of Americans are for stronger, reasonable gun laws, and the NRA has opposed those for years. No, the NRA is the gun lobby, and so they work for the gun industry.
To me, this sounds like someone that is jealous of the attention Zumbo got and would LOVE to have a job that was good enough to worry about losing. For some, any attention is considered a Good Thing(tm).

I believe there are plenty of calgunners that have now seen, firsthand, NRA in California having to quietly cleanup (where possible) problems caused by the industry's contract lobbyist. Those who have been paying attention have seen seen other "pro-gun" groups supporting last year's mail order ammo ban and then backtrack when an uproar ensued (blaming a Members' Council volunteer for spreading false rumours about their PUBLISHED position.) They've seen "the industry" lobbyist supporting PETA's dog bill last year - scroll down to the "Support" list HERE (http://leginfo.ca.gov/pub/05-06/bill/sen/sb_1551-1600/sb_1578_cfa_20060905_135024_sen_floor.html) for a real laugh. Talk about keeping bad company! Let's join hands with PETA, the Doris Day Animal League, Dogs Deserve Better, In Defense of Animals, Last Chance for Animals and many others. THAT'S advancing gun-owners, target shooters and hunters, eh?

It is true that sometimes, manufacturers/dealers interest can run counter to gun-owner interests (remember the British S&W? - and in all fairness, they stood alone during that fiasco). But in my experience, NRA holds the interest of IT'S MEMBERS in top priority. I've seen that play into their strategies over and over and over again. (And sometimes, it pisses off those who present themselves as "pro-gun".)

NRA is the one group you won't see publicly attacking other pro-gun groups, no matter how screwed up they are. The "Gun Guy" simply doesn't understand there's an entire UNIVERSE of things that happen below his radar - much like other amatuers who love to hear themselves type. Always been that way, always will. If only their ears and eyes worked as well as their mouths.

Mike

Directshot
04-04-2007, 2:30 PM
The Gun Guy is way out there by himself. I've been on his site, just thought he was a whacko trying to muddy the waters. Now I'm sure of it.....