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View Full Version : CCW coming soon; WTB Single stack .45 ACP. Sig, Kahr, Taurus, or????


Netzman
02-24-2012, 2:40 PM
First off, yes I'm certain I want a .45. :cowboy:

Now that that's settled, I'm looking for any of the following:

Sig P220, Sig P245, Kahr CW4543, Taurus PT745, or a 1911 carry version.
I could also check out other .45 ACP single stack guns you have too.
Most of the guns I want are not on the Cal approved list, so I'm searching.

**not interested in guns with wider double stack grip profiles such as the Glock 36. I want to be able to hide this easily without printing.
Thanks

Willing to meet in or around the Sacramento area.

c3 rolling
02-24-2012, 3:18 PM
I would recommend the Glock 36 but you nixed it. It's very easy to conceal on me, im 6'00 160 pounds.

Nor*Cal
02-24-2012, 3:33 PM
Wrong section for a WTB thread.

REPR
02-24-2012, 3:38 PM
I've been eyeballing this (http://xdspistol.com/) since SHOT.

kielbasavw
02-24-2012, 3:39 PM
if you did all that hard work to get the ccw, spend some extra time and money and SSE a kahr PM45. i would think thats the ultimate .45 for ccw. or just get a p45 if you don't want to see

if you want a 1911 style, the para warthog is pretty cool

Blackhawk556
02-24-2012, 3:39 PM
Wait until the springfield xds comes out.

Sent from Los Alamos Nuclear Facility

tuna quesadilla
02-24-2012, 3:49 PM
When did the Glock 36 become double-stack?

Netzman
02-24-2012, 5:27 PM
blackhawk556: I will keep an eye out for them, they do intrigue me.

tuna_quesadilla: Just looked it up and I didn't realize they ARE single stack, back in the running and a real contender!

Being that I'm concerned about width I looked up some stats:
Glock 1.13 inches wide
Kahr PM45 1.165 inches wide
Kahr CW45 1.01 inches wide
Springfield XDs 1.25 inches wide (to be released in April?)
Sig P220 1.5 inches wide
Sig P245 1.35 inches wide
Taurus PT745 1.268 inches wide
S&W M&P 45c 1.2 inches wide

Sam
02-24-2012, 5:31 PM
I love the M&P line. What about an M&P45 compact? Approximately the same dimensions of a Glock 19 but holds 8 rounds of .45.

Netzman
02-24-2012, 5:41 PM
Video comparing what I would say are my top contenders currently:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHF4s1B4yPg

Netzman
02-24-2012, 5:41 PM
Video comparing what I would say are my top contenders currently:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHF4s1B4yPg

MyGlock17
02-24-2012, 5:54 PM
Springfield XDS that just came out is a single stack .45...Not sure if it's going to be legal in California though....

dfletcher
02-24-2012, 6:08 PM
For a 1911 that's CA OK the Colt Defender is a pretty good choice, of course there are alot of other 3" alloy framed 1911s out there. My minor dislike on those pistols is the frame's grip length, I'd like it to be about 3/4" shorter like the Detonics. I carried my Detonics in OR last week and the shorter grip makes a difference, I think.

hawk1547
02-24-2012, 6:16 PM
If you want a 1911, the Kimber CDP Ultra have 3" barrels that make them easy to conceal

tuna quesadilla
02-24-2012, 6:18 PM
blackhawk556: I will keep an eye out for them, they do intrigue me.

tuna_quesadilla: Just looked it up and I didn't realize they ARE single stack, back in the running and a real contender!

Being that I'm concerned about width I looked up some stats:
Glock 1.13 inches wide
Kahr PM45 1.165 inches wide
Kahr CW45 1.01 inches wide
Springfield XDs 1.25 inches wide (to be released in April?)
Sig P220 1.5 inches wide
Sig P245 1.35 inches wide
Taurus PT745 1.268 inches wide
S&W M&P 45c 1.2 inches wide

You need to get yourself to a gun shop and really feel each of those pistols in your hand. Looking up the manufacturers' width spec doesn't tell you the whole picture. Different manufacturers have different ways of measuring, and the gun's individual contours can change the way it feels or conceals.

ArcherDog
02-27-2012, 11:44 AM
Can the M&P 45c be SSE'd? I'm thinking about picking one up for my (eventual) CCW.

Andy Taylor
02-27-2012, 2:13 PM
When did the Glock 36 become double-stack?

That's what I was thinking. The 30 is the compact double stack. The 36 is the compact single stack.

monk
02-27-2012, 2:21 PM
Wait until the springfield xds comes out.

Sent from Los Alamos Nuclear Facility

I can't wait until they bring out the 9mm version.

CJJohn
02-27-2012, 2:36 PM
I have a Kimber PRO CDP that I carry most days. I recently added a Kahr (first one) to my collection and I have to say, it won't be my last. In fact I'm eyeing the Kahr 45s now as a replacement to my Kimber for CCW. I like the Glock 36, but I like the Kahr better!

tuna quesadilla
02-27-2012, 3:13 PM
I can't wait until they bring out the 9mm version.

You'd think they would be on that like white on rice. People have been clamoring for a 9mm singlestack Glock for years. It took XD this long just to release their competition to the Glock 36. I wonder if there's some underlying issue with adapting a larger system down to a compact singlestack.

monk
02-27-2012, 3:35 PM
You'd think they would be on that like white on rice. People have been clamoring for a 9mm singlestack Glock for years. It took XD this long just to release their competition to the Glock 36. I wonder if there's some underlying issue with adapting a larger system down to a compact singlestack.

I'm not sure. I'm hoping they plan on taking on Ruger's LC9.

RealBarber
02-27-2012, 4:38 PM
how about a Colt Defender

Sunday
02-27-2012, 4:41 PM
When you use that ccw gun you will wish you bought a plastic pistol instead of a pricy 1911 when it is in the evidence locker. But odds are you won't be needing it anyway "hope"

keenkeen
02-27-2012, 4:53 PM
When you use that ccw gun you will wish you bought a plastic pistol instead of a pricy 1911 when it is in the evidence locker. But odds are you won't be needing it anyway "hope"

I never got this argument...On the off chance someone uses their ccw gun and it ends up in an evidence locker is there really that big a difference between a $600 poly pistol and a $1000 1911?

If you want to carry a $1000 pistol go for it...if you have the money to carry a $3000 pistol go for it.

It's like saying: "Well, when you smash that $5000 watch you wear in a car accident you will wish you had been wearing a timex."

Maybe I am missing something...

tuna quesadilla
02-27-2012, 5:02 PM
When you use that ccw gun you will wish you bought a plastic pistol instead of a pricy 1911 when it is in the evidence locker. But odds are you won't be needing it anyway "hope"

A $500 difference in pistols won't amount to much when you're paying $10,000+ in legal fees. :)

tango_romeo
02-28-2012, 5:02 AM
Why a .45?

adrenaline
02-28-2012, 5:20 AM
Why a .45?

I'm just about as accurate as I am with my USP 9mm as I am with my HK45c even with rapid fire drills.

Both the USP 9mm and HK45c are on my permit.....

Which would you think I would carry? :43:

My simple answer, WHY NOT?

deadhawg
02-28-2012, 10:10 AM
How about this one?
http://216.218.212.179/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=526676

davbog44
02-28-2012, 10:41 AM
With all due respect, it strikes me that the pistols you're considering run all the way across the spectrum, and that tells me you need to get a little more focus before you're going to get the best advice.

I would recommend that you first spend some time at a range with rentals and try out several. Once you have narrowed down the field a little more, ask around here again (and also some of the manufacturer themed gun boards geared to your "finalist" choices like SIG Forum, Glock Talk etc) and get more concrete feedback from people who own what you are considering.

My personal favorite for a single stack .45 is the SIG P220 Carry. However, the right 1911 is about as sweet as it gets, I just don't happen to be a 1911 guy. But I think if you decide to go that route, you'll be able to get some really good advice from those who are die hard 1911 guys.

Be patient, test and research as much as you can, enough so that you feel you can trust your own informed opinions. After all, someday you may have to stake your life (or that of a loved one) on the weapon you choose.

theneko
02-28-2012, 10:57 AM
I think the Kahr P45 is just about perfect. Definaetly look at the thickness of any CCW gun - I have a hard time carrying Glocks IWB too because of the thickness.
Or try a Kimber Ultra model.

Moto4Fun
02-28-2012, 11:18 AM
You should narrow down what kind of trigger you want. I like all sorts of guns and triggers, but since I don't have the license needed to carry, I rarely consider that when buying a gun. But if I were to get a permit, I would thoroughly investigate that factor before considering what pistol to get. I am inclined to think that I would want a consistent pull, whether it be SA or DA, and then I would train to operate the pistol accordingly.

Sig offers something for everyone. The p220 can be had in DA/SA, SAO, or DAK; and the p220 Carry is a perfect sized gun in my opinion.

There are various 1911 options as well, and they are nice and thin. ParaOrdnance also has the LDA trigger is SA triggers aren't your cup of tea.

tango_romeo
02-28-2012, 2:32 PM
IMO, and others, Khar pistols are not the most reliable; can be hit and miss. If I'm relying on my weapon to potentially save my life or the life of my loved ones, I want something that has proven reliable and will go bang with a 99.99999% certainty. I have read in the past, on another forum, where someone would carry a "backup ccw weapon" for his "primary ccw weapon"-a Khar-because he had reservations about its reliability....sounds asinine to me, why would you even carry it?! :wacko:

That being said, I'd go with a Sig, Glock(even though I'm not a huge fan of glock, I'd take one ANYDAY over a Khar, without hesitation), Ruger and Smith revolvers, Kimber, and as of yet, I've never had a failure with my S&W M&P, so I might even consider it (but it is rather bulky). And if you're on a budget and want a 1911, I'm impressed with the Rock Island Armory, officer's compact model of course; nothing extravagant and just a plain and simple piece of work...and you'll get that desired .45...which is another discussion in and of itself :innocent:

And I would agree with davbog44 100%. Shoot it first, practice the manual of arms for the firearm and know exactly what you are buying.

::EDIT::

My friend is a range instructor and has seen 3 XDs actually break in the midst of line fire in the past year; based on that I wouldn't purchase an XD until they change something.

deadhawg
02-28-2012, 3:27 PM
IMO, and others, Khar pistols are not the most reliable; can be hit and miss.

So, do you have any actual experiance with Kahr (not Khar) pistols, or are you just repeating internet gun forum gossip?

I have a Kahr PM9 and a Kahr P45, both have been more reliable than my 1911's.

theneko
02-28-2012, 3:48 PM
Agree with hawg - I have a PM9, P9, and P45 and they are among the more reliable pistols I have. Took the P9 out last week for the first time for my 200 round break-in. Had one failure to eject in the first mag, the other 199 were flawless. Break them in and be sure they function with your intended ammo - just like anything else.

Netzman
02-28-2012, 4:06 PM
Ya, I bought my wife the cw9 about a year ago, and I really like the way it shoots, it's sights, and how thin it is. I've also heard really good reliability with them too which is why I'm seriously looking into a .45 from them.
I have had issues with steel cased ammo not wanting to feed right, but that's why I'm moving to all brass with it.

tango_romeo
02-28-2012, 4:25 PM
[QUOTE=deadhawg;8125358]So, do you have any actual experiance with Kahr (not Khar) pistols, or are you just repeating internet gun forum gossip?

I don't own one, but yes, I've used a few. My point isn't to rag on the KAHR (there...slow the fingers down and type correctly) but simply to say with my own, very limited, experience and that of others who have owned them, you hear more about failures or reliability issues than you do say, a Sig. It is an observation.

theneko had one failure out of 200 with his Kahr...

I've had zero with more than 1500 rounds through my S&W M&P (please don't assume i'm an avid M&P supporter, great firearm but there are better out there).

Again, observation.

And of course, all firearms are prone to malfunction at some point in time, but you hear about less from some than others.

Moto4Fun
02-28-2012, 8:28 PM
The amount you hear about on internet forums may not be directly proportional to the real world failure rate. Peoples expectations, ability to read the manual, and certain target markets' tendency to whine might make for more internet griping than is representative of the real world failures. That being said everyone who shoots and likes a certain gun will always defend it. Certain guns (maybe Kahr) have published break-in periods and require certain ammo to be used. When people don't read the manual or expect it to function perfectly from the first round experience a number of hiccups, they sell the gun then rag on it on the internet.

As far as 99.99999% reliability is concerned; you will not find a single gun anywhere that can meet that criteria. Look for 99.9% reliability. Any more than that will be difficult to achieve. Let's be realistic.

FUBAR
02-28-2012, 10:15 PM
For a single stack, that Sig P220 is a whole lot of gun to conceal. I've entertained the thought of carrying a P245 but found the Glock G36 was easier and more comfortable to conceal. The G36 rode on my hip IWB for about six years but decided to go 9mm for cost reasons (I don't reload). I've carried a Glock G26 and didn't feel confident when drawing the weapon because of its short grip. I even installed a GAP extension but still didn't feel like I got a firm purchase on the weapon. I decided to try something bigger so went with a Glock G19 Gen4. This was near perfect until i tried out my friends duty weapon, S&W M&P 9mm. Really pissed me off that I had to change my carry weapon again because that M&P felt so good in my hands. People talk bad about the trigger but thats just a training issue for me. Heck, bad trigger pull aint nothing untill you've shot a revolver in DA all day for training because that's what the Department issues. Bottom line, I ended up with a M&P9 Compact for carry and a fullsize 9 for home defense. On a side note, I've been carrying for 15 years and within that time I've also carried a HK USP 40 Compact, S&W 640, S&W 442, S&W 60 as well as a Kimber Custom Carry when they were first introduced. 45's are nice and if it were cheap like back in the days I would still carry them. Just my opinion.

Netzman
02-29-2012, 1:24 PM
After spending more time researching I've narrowed it down to the following based on my criteria of caliber, and width; in order of interest:
Kahr P45 (like the feel in hand and trigger as well as it's the thinnest)
Sig P245 (like the track record of Sig, manual of arms, and SA/DA)
Glock 36 (like the track record/reliability.... that's probably it)
(going to hold a Sig P220 and see how well it will conceal on me) 5'9" 180lbs

I am going to take a trip to the gun shop next and check these out to see how they feel.

bombadillo
07-25-2012, 10:57 PM
Not sure what you went with, but I"m really leaning toward the PT745 because the price, the gun itself seems to run well, I like the sights, and a manual safety. I like everything about this thing. For $350 plus dros, I don't think it can be beat. As much as I like sig, I don't shoot well with them, and they will cost 2-3x as much. As for Kahr, I don't think the CW45 is legal here but maybe the more expensive models are. That Taurus looks to be the ticket.

Legasat
07-25-2012, 11:04 PM
Of all the ones I know about, if I was going to carry a .45, it would be the XDS or M&P 45c

bombadillo
07-25-2012, 11:05 PM
XDs isn't on the roster yet is it?

Dee_Dub
07-26-2012, 10:27 AM
the sig p220 is a great gun, its a little big and making it very hard at times to conceal. Im now in the market for a Glock 30 or 36. I love my Sig but I feel they require more TLC. Shoots great, as far as the recoil its not a very huge factor. You'll find that the sig fits your hand a lot better than the glocks. Trigger pull is perfect. but only carries 8 plus one *unless you get 10 round mags, they stick out about 3/4inc out the bottom of the magazine well

bombadillo
07-26-2012, 10:31 AM
Oh, check out the Taurus Millennium Pro 745 as well. Single stack .45acp and its a whopping $350 or so at most shops brand new. People will knock it, but the owners of them all seem to love them.

meaty-btz
07-26-2012, 10:34 AM
Taurus PT-745.

It isnt the best but cost is good.
Pros:grip is long enough for a full normal grip, unlike the glock; also it is inexpensive; it is on the list so no SSE needed; very short trigger reset (yes even though it has a long trigger the reset is in the last 1/8th of the trigger); Combat sights mean quick shots.. if you know how to use them correctly
Cons: Lightweight and small and .45 acp means recoil; it is a Taurus which means quality is hit and miss, yours could be awesome.. or it could not be.

I have one for LTC, in stainless. My feelings about it are mixed bag mostly having to do with the user side of the equation rather than the gun itself which has been pretty damn good since day one.

giantsfan
07-26-2012, 11:48 AM
Taurus PT-745.

It isnt the best but cost is good.
Pros:grip is long enough for a full normal grip, unlike the glock; also it is inexpensive; it is on the list so no SSE needed; very short trigger reset (yes even though it has a long trigger the reset is in the last 1/8th of the trigger); Combat sights mean quick shots.. if you know how to use them correctly
Cons: Lightweight and small and .45 acp means recoil; it is a Taurus which means quality is hit and miss, yours could be awesome.. or it could not be.

I have one for LTC, in stainless. My feelings about it are mixed bag mostly having to do with the user side of the equation rather than the gun itself which has been pretty damn good since day one.

Due to my most recent experience in selling my VERY dependable Taurus PT140, I would NOT recommend buying a Taurus. I like Taurus, they have excellent customer service and my experience all around was good.

That said, if you decide a couple months after buying it that you'd rather not have that weapon and try to sell it...the resale value SUCKS on these.

I'd spend the money and get something with a more recognized name that has a better resale value, is still very dependable and has parts available in case you need them. For me, for carry purposes Glock has just this but so do other pistols.

Most recently I've been looking at the SA XD Compact .45ACP...I like the grip safety in addition to the trigger safety on these and SA is a great company. The XD has been around for a while as well so parts shouldn't be an issue. Plus it's easily concealable and in the compact frame, very controllable recoil.

My .02 cents..

meaty-btz
07-26-2012, 12:30 PM
Due to my most recent experience in selling my VERY dependable Taurus PT140, I would NOT recommend buying a Taurus. I like Taurus, they have excellent customer service and my experience all around was good.

That said, if you decide a couple months after buying it that you'd rather not have that weapon and try to sell it...the resale value SUCKS on these.

I'd spend the money and get something with a more recognized name that has a better resale value, is still very dependable and has parts available in case you need them. For me, for carry purposes Glock has just this but so do other pistols.

Most recently I've been looking at the SA XD Compact .45ACP...I like the grip safety in addition to the trigger safety on these and SA is a great company. The XD has been around for a while as well so parts shouldn't be an issue. Plus it's easily concealable and in the compact frame, very controllable recoil.

My .02 cents..

Did you over pay for your PT140? In my experience my Taurus firearms have kept value. Was it a gen 1 or Gen 2? Noted that once the Gen 3 MilPro's came out no one wanted a Gen 1 or Gen 2. TBH I probably would have liked a Gen 2 better than a Gen 3 due to my pref for DAO triggers.

Taurus customer service has always been top notch. Good people. Just they need better quality control.

My PT-745 is much less desireable than the more popular PT-145 (not on the california list) which is a double stack 10 round .45 Mil Pro. Try selling the 745 out of California and it is "good luck finding a buyer" because the adds nothing to the "bulk" but the larger grip is easier to handle so it has two things going for it: higher cap and easier grip. Just can't get it in the Peoples Republic without SSE.

If you get the glock or the XD make sure you get the pinky extensions for the mag, makes a world of difference.

kaligaran
07-26-2012, 12:34 PM
I second the Taurus PT series. I carry a PT709. Super accurate and light. You can get mag extentions to lengthen the grip if you desire.

I have had great luck with their customer service. Also, in my opinion, they do hold their resale value. Of course, that's if you got a good deal to begin with.

corcoraj2002
07-26-2012, 12:43 PM
I have only shot one Taurus, and it was not a good experience, that being said if I got my hands on a reliable one and it built my confidence up in the model again I would consider it for LTC. But since I had a bad range experience, I consider them good range guns and that is all.

nfs
07-26-2012, 6:08 PM
XDs isn't on the roster yet is it?
Will not be released in California as per springfield.
I will be getting one via SSE soon. It's just to good a gun to keep out of Calif.

blockfort
07-26-2012, 6:14 PM
Will not be released in California as per springfield.
I will be getting one via SSE soon. It's just to good a gun to keep out of Calif.

^^^
I agree