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View Full Version : From where and when did the 2nd form of proof of residency for HG puchase come from?


littlejake
02-24-2012, 12:42 PM
I've owned and purchased firearms, including handguns, in CA since 1969. Somewhere along the way, the CA DL was no long enough to buy a handgun; a second proof of residency became mandatory. If I understand correctly, it's federal.

Is this codified somewhere? Or did ATF just add this by fiat (letter of memorandum.) The GCA of 1968, codified as part of the USC, is the general federal law that ATF draws from. (And the NFA and the SAPA of 1986)

If this was imposed by fiat, why are we stand still for it? Our CA DL was good enough for years -- why when and how did it change? Any impediment to the 2nd Amendment is worth fighting!

safewaysecurity
02-24-2012, 12:51 PM
It's not federal it's California nonsense.

whitelight0810
02-24-2012, 12:52 PM
The proof of residency is a state issue and only applies to the sale of handguns (currently). It became in effect in the late 1990's and can be seen in the most current firearms laws booklet of 2007 from CA Bureau of Firearms. Here is the link: http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/forms/Cfl2007.pdf? Check out page 39 to see the CA residency requirement. Hope this helps!

bussda
02-24-2012, 12:56 PM
I believe it is not federal, but a state imposed legislative requirement that grew out of the Long Island Railway shooting.

Librarian
02-24-2012, 1:26 PM
And you can see the regulations here - 11 CCR 4045 (http://weblinks.westlaw.com/result/default.aspx?action=Search&cfid=1&cnt=DOC&db=CA-ADC&eq=search&fmqv=c&fn=_top&method=TNC&mt=Westlaw&n=1&origin=Search&query=CI%28%2211+CA+ADC+S+4045%22%29&rlt=CLID_QRYRLT33939575615242&rltdb=CLID_DB46658575615242&rlti=1&rp=%2Fsearch%2Fdefault.wl&rs=GVT1.0&service=Search&sp=CCR-1000&srch=TRUE&ss=CNT&sskey=CLID_SSSA12674575615242&sv=Split&tempinfo=FIND&vr=2.0) The following definitions and requirements apply to documents intended to serve as evidence of residency for the acquisition of a handgun pursuant to Penal Code section 26845:

a.1. “Utility bill” means a statement of charges for providing direct service to the individual's residence by either a physical connection (i.e., hard wired telephone or cable connection, or a water or gas pipeline connection), or a telemetric connection (i.e., satellite television or radio broadcast service) to a non-mobile, fixed antenna reception device.

2. The utility bill statement date must be within three months of the current date.

3. The utility bill must bear on its face the individual's name and either of the following:

A. The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form.

B. The individual's residential address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.

b.1. “Residential lease” means either of the following:

A. A signed and dated contract by which the individual (tenant) agrees to pay a specified monetary sum or provide other consideration for the right to occupy an abode for a specified period of time.

B. A signed and dated rental agreement by which the individual (tenant) agrees to pay a specified monetary sum or provide other consideration at fixed intervals for the right to occupy an abode.

2. The residential lease must bear the individual's name and either of the following:

A. The individual's current residential address as declared on the DROS form.

B. The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.

c.1. “Property deed” means either of the following:

A. A valid deed of trust for the individual's property of current residence that identifies the individual as a grantee of the trust.

B. A valid Certificate of Title issued by a licensed title insurance company that identifies the individual as a title holder to his or her property of current residence.

2. The property deed must bear the individual's name and either of the following:

A. The individual's current residential address as declared on the DROS form.

B. The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.

d. “Other evidence of residency as permitted by the Department of Justice” means either of the following:

1. A current, government-issued (city, county, special district, state, or federal) license, permit, or registration, other than a California Driver License or California Identification Card, that has a specified expiration date or period of validity. The license, permit, or registration must bear the individual's name and either of the following:

A. The individual's current residential address as declared on the DROS form.

B. The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.

2. A valid peace officer credential issued by a California law enforcement agency to an active, reserve, or retired peace officer.

Note: Authority cited: Section 26845, Penal Code. Reference: Sections 26845 and 27550, Penal Code.


The requirement was added by SB 52 (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postquery?bill_number=sb_52&sess=0102&house=B&author=scott) in 2001, effective Jan 2003, another fine contribution from Senator Jack Scott.

rplusplus
02-24-2012, 1:31 PM
Am I reading this whole thread wrong? I have always used "1" form of Proof of Residency for each of my DROS. Some with CA DL and others with my Vehicle Registration after I moved and the address on my CA DL is different now.

Is the OP saying that you need 2 pieces of Proof? :confused:

Librarian
02-24-2012, 1:56 PM
Am I reading this whole thread wrong? I have always used "1" form of Proof of Residency for each of my DROS. Some with CA DL and others with my Vehicle Registration after I moved and the address on my CA DL is different now.

Is the OP saying that you need 2 pieces of Proof? :confused:

You need 2 pieces of documentation for a handgun purchase:

Proof of IDENTITY, ordinarily your CDL.

Proof of CALIFORNIA RESIDENCE, which must be something OTHER THAN your CDL and on the list of things mentioned in the CCR I posted. The easy one for most people is vehicle registration.

If your FFL does not ask for both of those separate documents, he's not following the law.

littlejake
02-24-2012, 3:03 PM
Thanks for clarifying its origin in state law. It's never been a problem for me as I always carry a copy of my auto registration in my wallet.

We've seen a number of posts in the CGN forums where it has been an issue.

Like so many other restrictions the state has imposed on its subjects, it is just another straw on the camel.

We have the onerous Safe Handgun Roster, magazine capacity limits, AW bans, additional documentation not required in a free state, ever increasing DROS fees, the HGSC, a waiting period (when the purpose of NICS was to be the National Instant Check System.)

I know we have to pick our battles. We should be fighting restrictions on arms whatever form they take. We seem to submit to added restrictions with an attitude that it is not that big of a deal. These restrictions have an additive effect on our Liberty.

I'm old and retired. I have the option to move to Nevada and pull my investments out of California. Others are not so fortunate as their livelihoods are rooted in California.

Well, thanks for letting me rant; and special thanks to Librarian for always being the source of knowledge. :rant:

CrazyPhuD
02-24-2012, 3:21 PM
I always find the 'prove you're a CA resident' humorous. As if anyone would voluntarily choose to subject themselves to CA's regulations if they had viable options elsewhere.

GMG
02-24-2012, 5:06 PM
It used to be a DD 214 could be used to buy a hand gun.................but no. Now you have to have an HSC!

safewaysecurity
02-24-2012, 5:08 PM
I always find the 'prove you're a CA resident' humorous. As if anyone would voluntarily choose to subject themselves to CA's regulations if they had viable options elsewhere.

No that's not the reason. The reason is they want to know exactly where you live so they know where to go when they want to confiscate your firearms. I think it's kind of weird that you have to pay a private company money for services unrelated to the 2nd Amendment in order to exercise your 2nd amendment right in California. I don't really pay any bills and don't have my vehicle registration in my name so I guess there's no handgun 2nd amendment for me.

Librarian
02-24-2012, 5:12 PM
It used to be a DD 214 could be used to buy a hand gun.................but no. Now you have to have an HSC!

Yes; that changed when the BFSC - Basic Firearms Safety Certificate, a lifetime thing - was replaced by the HSC.

Scarecrow Repair
02-24-2012, 9:13 PM
Those of us who live in the boonies and have our PO Box on our CDL, utility bills, etc, because there is no home mail delivery, have extra fun because they want a street address on the DROS or federal form, and they must match.

KGenter
02-24-2012, 9:38 PM
So to fight this BS we need lawyers to aggressively fight for our cause (pro bono or commissioned) as it seems residency is already substantiated by a CDL or Tax Return and such status is instantly available to government agencies by proffered identification. I have a PO Box listed on by CDL and need to present “other evidence” to purchase a firearm. I cannot legally obtain a DL (or ID) in another state without surrendering active CDL. Instant check of residency and legality to obtain should be universal and any gun show exemption so muted (I guess 10 day “cooling off period” also voided if shown to already be in possession via prior DROS).
At any rate, Vote Freedom First and make a difference by contributing to a 2nd amendment cause!

cdtx2001
02-24-2012, 9:47 PM
What about people that own no home or do not rent? If someone does not have a fixed address but don't ever go out of state, how are they supposed to be able to purchase a handgun?

Librarian
02-24-2012, 10:09 PM
What about people that own no home or do not rent? If someone does not have a fixed address but don't ever go out of state, how are they supposed to be able to purchase a handgun?

Dearth v Holder - http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Dearth_v._Holder

Kid Stanislaus
02-25-2012, 6:15 PM
What about people that own no home or do not rent? If someone does not have a fixed address but don't ever go out of state, how are they supposed to be able to purchase a handgun?

Hey, we don't want no stink'n homeless people owning guns!!:rolleyes:

TNP'R
02-25-2012, 6:25 PM
Here in TN you have to have two forms of I.D too and you can't owe any child support either.