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moleculo
02-24-2012, 12:02 PM
We now have a situation where the SF Sheriff is no longer qualified (as of right now) to possess firearms because of a DV charge. Yet, this is the same government official that the legislature has chosen to decide if an individual has "Good Moral Character" when a citizen applies for a LTC. The irony is obvious to everyone, but is there an angle here that can be exploited in a legal challenge to the "Good Moral Character" clause of the statute so we can ask the court to define "Good Moral Character" for the State so we can take this decision out of the Sheriff's hands? How can a person be tasked on behalf of the County to define "good moral character" for LTC's if that same person has been determined by the Court to not have good enough moral character to begin with? :facepalm: Surely there's some legal precedent that can be used to help us here?

wildhawker
02-24-2012, 12:10 PM
Don't go out and get lost in the weeds on the issues.

In our case of Richards v. Prieto, Alan Gura has brilliantly shown how GC and GMC requirements (facially, and as-applied) are unconstitutional prior restraints.

There are other arguments (none as proper or direct as Alan's) re moral character, but those would require litigation. Such would be unnecessarily duplicative and detractory.

-Brandon

23 Blast
02-24-2012, 12:10 PM
In San Francisco, being a Democrat qualifies you as having "Good Moral Character," and since people of good moral character love everybody and don't need or want guns, clearly only people who want guns are by definition not of good moral character.

J/K - ill be interested to see what happens with this. SF is one of the most anti-gun municipalities this side of Pyongyang, so it would be interesting to see how this plays out.

Just Dave
02-24-2012, 12:11 PM
Good point.
What is the criteria for "good moral character" as defined by the state? That's what I would like to know.

Connor P Price
02-24-2012, 12:35 PM
Good point.
What is the criteria for "good moral character" as defined by the state? That's what I would like to know.

There isn't a criteria as defined by the state. There is no definition of good cause either. That's what enables sheriffs to issue so differently from one another. Look for both of those issues to be solved by pending litigation. Richards, which Brandon mentioned above is the one looking to change both of those problems.

Anti-Hero
02-24-2012, 12:51 PM
We now have a situation where the SF Sheriff is no longer qualified (as of right now) to possess firearms because of a DV charge. Yet, this is the same government official that the legislature has chosen to decide if an individual has "Good Moral Character" when a citizen applies for a LTC. The irony is obvious to everyone, but is there an angle here that can be exploited in a legal challenge to the "Good Moral Character" clause of the statute so we can ask the court to define "Good Moral Character" for the State so we can take this decision out of the Sheriff's hands? How can a person be tasked on behalf of the County to define "good moral character" for LTC's if that same person has been determined by the Court to not have good enough moral character to begin with? :facepalm: Surely there's some legal precedent that can be used to help us here?

Which could easily be worded to show how GMC applied is the right thing to do.

Example: The Sheriff didn't demonstrate good moral character - and thus his right was denied.

wildhawker
02-24-2012, 12:53 PM
Which could easily be worded to show how GMC applied is the right thing to do.

Example: The Sheriff didn't demonstrate good moral character - and thus his right was denied.

Well, no. The Sheriff is denied access to firearms by operation of his being a prohibited person, just like anyone else. He is not a carry license applicant.

-Brandon

Wherryj
02-24-2012, 4:41 PM
We now have a situation where the SF Sheriff is no longer qualified (as of right now) to possess firearms because of a DV charge. Yet, this is the same government official that the legislature has chosen to decide if an individual has "Good Moral Character" when a citizen applies for a LTC. The irony is obvious to everyone, but is there an angle here that can be exploited in a legal challenge to the "Good Moral Character" clause of the statute so we can ask the court to define "Good Moral Character" for the State so we can take this decision out of the Sheriff's hands? How can a person be tasked on behalf of the County to define "good moral character" for LTC's if that same person has been determined by the Court to not have good enough moral character to begin with? :facepalm: Surely there's some legal precedent that can be used to help us here?

There's no irony here. I believe that this was covered in first grade: "It takes one to know one."? How else can he know who is a scum-bag undeserving of the right to self-protection unless he IS one?

NoJoke
02-24-2012, 5:11 PM
I'm sorry, but the whole "good moral character" thing is such a sham it's shameful. It is so intellectually disingenuous to be able to purchase a gun and in the same breath, state that you cannot have what you have purchased with you. That, right there is the clear definition of insanity. :facepalm::eek:

On an unrelated note, it was GREAT to see someone wearing a "right to bear arms"....a bear with a gun....walking through Costco in Oceanside (Hacienda) tonight!

Gray Peterson
02-24-2012, 5:51 PM
I'm sorry, but the whole "good moral character" thing is such a sham it's shameful. It is so intellectually disingenuous to be able to purchase a gun and in the same breath, state that you cannot have what you have purchased with you. That, right there is the clear definition of insanity. :facepalm::eek:

On an unrelated note, it was GREAT to see someone wearing a "right to bear arms"....a bear with a gun....walking through Costco in Oceanside (Hacienda) tonight!

With an EBR, right? :rolleyes:

Old_Bald_Guy
02-24-2012, 6:03 PM
In San Francisco, being a Democrat qualifies you as having "Good Moral Character," and since people of good moral character love everybody and don't need or want guns, clearly only people who want guns are by definition not of good moral character.


Ha ha! I don't know from San Francisco, but I'm a Democrat of good moral character and I'm licensed to carry three guns here in Sacramento County.

Darklyte27
02-24-2012, 6:34 PM
Its pretty crazy we are even allowing "these" people to decide what we can and cant do.
Who are they to judge? Why are we letting them control how we protect our lives from non law abiding citizens?

scarville
02-24-2012, 6:40 PM
Its pretty crazy we are even allowing "these" people to decide what we can and cant do.
Who are they to judge? Why are we letting them control how we protect our lives from non law abiding citizens?
Because gun control laws are enforced by men with guns.

Kid Stanislaus
02-24-2012, 8:01 PM
There's no irony here. I believe that this was covered in first grade: "It takes one to know one."? How else can he know who is a scum-bag undeserving of the right to self-protection unless he IS one?

Ah, I just LOVE impeccable reasoning!:p

Kid Stanislaus
02-24-2012, 8:04 PM
Ha ha! I don't know from San Francisco, but I'm a Democrat of good moral character and I'm licensed to carry three guns here in Sacramento County.

I don't know guys, should Democrats be allowed to carry guns?!;)

NoJoke
02-24-2012, 8:04 PM
With an EBR, right? :rolleyes:

Yeah...was that you? 20 something looking guy....:)

KGenter
02-24-2012, 9:57 PM
I believe the “good moral character” clause as illustrated in the CalGuns model carry guidelines is “not otherwise prohibited” thus if you are not excluded by current legislation from owning a firearm you by default have such required good moral character. Seems the SF Sherriff is lacking at the moment.

Gray Peterson
02-24-2012, 10:18 PM
Yeah...was that you? 20 something looking guy....:)

I haven't been to San Diego in over 20 years. I'm 30 years old. That should tell you something....also, "good looking"? I shatter mirrors with my ugly...

rp55
02-24-2012, 10:31 PM
What is the criteria for "good moral character" as defined by the state? That's what I would like to know.

When the law was originally written it was the code for not African American, Latino or Asian.

QQQ
02-25-2012, 6:51 AM
Its pretty crazy we are even allowing "these" people to decide what we can and cant do.
Who are they to judge? Why are we letting them control how we protect our lives from non law abiding citizens?Damn good question.

Gray Peterson
02-25-2012, 7:07 AM
Its pretty crazy we are even allowing "these" people to decide what we can and cant do.
Who are they to judge? Why are we letting them contofl how we protect our lives from non law abiding citizens?


Damn good question.

Because the 1923 Legislature decided this to be so, and until the good cause & good moral character struck by order if federal or state judge, they will continue to so what they are doing.

SanPedroShooter
02-25-2012, 7:13 AM
Because the 1923 Legislature decided this to be so, and until the good cause & good moral character struck by order if federal or state judge, they will continue to so what they are doing.

jim crow gun control a progressive policy plank in California... Who knew?

Gray Peterson
02-25-2012, 9:07 AM
jim crow gun control a progressive policy plank in California... Who knew?

People need clue bats.

NoJoke
02-25-2012, 10:13 AM
In my mind, their "good moral character" requirement would be analogous to:

You could buy but not drink:
http://sauk.uwex.edu/files/2010/08/waterweb.jpg

You can own but are prohibited from using outside your home:

http://1828.mshaffer.com/images/noah_webster_dictionary_1828_small.jpg

You may posses but cannot make reference to (in thought or word):

http://cdn.www.carm.org/images/bible6.jpg

SilverTauron
02-25-2012, 11:01 AM
In my mind, their "good moral character" requirement would be analogous to:

You could buy but not drink:
http://sauk.uwex.edu/files/2010/08/waterweb.jpg




Containers over 12 ounces are considered assault cups and must be registered or transported out of state.I thought everyone knew this?:rolleyes:



You can own but are prohibited from using outside your home:

http://1828.mshaffer.com/images/noah_webster_dictionary_1828_small.jpg



...unless you donate to the political campaign of the current politician.;)




You may posses but cannot make reference to (in thought or word):

http://cdn.www.carm.org/images/bible6.jpg

Didn't you know only approved Bibles can be possessed in the state? The King James Bible is not approved as it does not possess a "Page Read Indicator".