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1stLineGear
04-03-2007, 6:12 PM
Help expose the truth.

http://jpfo.org/bootbatfe.htm

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” (Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774-1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764)

LAK Supply
04-03-2007, 6:40 PM
I love the JPFO.........I think you're talking about "The Gang." If we could get some steam with these guys, firearms laws in this country could actually be Constitutionally-based.......none in other words.

As great as that sounds and as much of a believer as I am in "shall not be infringed," there would have to be some seriously drastic changes (ie: catastrophic events) to make this happen.

Bishop
04-03-2007, 6:52 PM
As great as that sounds and as much of a believer as I am in "shall not be infringed," there would have to be some seriously drastic changes (ie: catastrophic events) to make this happen.

This kind of thinking is what keeps gunnies from supporting good causes. "Well, it's unlikely my $20 will make a difference." What they don't realize is that if everyone who thought that actually DID put their $20 into the hat, we WOULD make a difference.

Nothing changes by doing nothing.

1stLineGear
04-03-2007, 8:50 PM
What is it going to take? I have donated time and money in the effort to preserve our freedoms. Sometimes I think, “Am I making a difference, is it worth it?" Yes it is worth it but I think as LAK Supply said (in another post) “there would have to be some seriously drastic changes (i.e.: catastrophic events) to make this happen." I believe the government is smart enough to not take away our 2nd amendment rights in one felled swoop. They are doing a great job of chipping away our rights as it is. The first shots have already been fired. When the legal system fails us what is there to do? I believe in obeying the laws of the land as far as they do not infringe upon our rights. When is the time to take action? After all legal avenues have failed us what then? How far do we let the government go? What will it take to seriously unite all 2nd amendment supporters? What are we doing to achieve this? Calguns.net is great but we should reach out and have all pro 2nd amendment groups united. Have a rep from each group to work together.

If we become united we can set up a fund to sue the hell out of the government for infringing upon out 2nd amendment rights.

"The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms."
-Samuel Adams, debates & Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87.

According to

http://www.armedfemalesofamerica.com/takingaim/mostgunowners.htm

There are about 75 million gun owners in the U.S. Imagine if every gun owner donated 10.00,50.00 or 100.00 each to the cause. We must get all gun owners on the same page.

Seriously, lets get some better organization and unit all gun owners.

Lets brainstorm and form a plan.

hoffmang
04-03-2007, 9:14 PM
Mike,

Look around man. In California, we've only made progress over the last 18 months and the movement is stronger than its ever been.

In the rest of the US, gun control is a dead issue. The Dems are afraid that pro gun bills can get through the house and senate they control because of all the pro gun dems that were elected last time.

Add Parker v. DC into the mix and things are moving the right direction for the first time in a long time.

-Gene

Kestryll
04-03-2007, 9:18 PM
Dupe threads merged.

Shane916
04-03-2007, 9:22 PM
I plan on joining the ATF in a few years and therefore would prefer not to boot them :)

redneckshootist
04-03-2007, 9:23 PM
I agree with hoffmang, I am startin to think that we might acually overturn SB23 and get CCWs in the future;)

LAK Supply
04-03-2007, 10:23 PM
This kind of thinking is what keeps gunnies from supporting good causes. "Well, it's unlikely my $20 will make a difference." What they don't realize is that if everyone who thought that actually DID put their $20 into the hat, we WOULD make a difference.

Nothing changes by doing nothing.

I don't think it's a matter of "my $20 not making a difference." I think the classic problem that we encounter is that gun-grabbers are willing to do whatever it takes to get our guns. Members of the pro-gun crowd usually possess better character than would be required to lie, threaten, and bribe.

As well, the grabbers have the media on their side. Every time there's a story about guns, phrases like "shootout," "gunned down," and "automatic weapon/assault weapon" dominate. It's unfortunate, but this perspective is all many Americans see. It would take a truthful major media outlet to help correct this problem........ as well as maybe a revolution.

Rem1492
04-03-2007, 10:31 PM
hoffmang has it. the rest of the country has a good momentum towards CCWs. Assault weapons bans are so 90s.

In 1994-1997 I remember doom and gloom, the ATF, clintons (did I knot capatalise that? oops) and anti-gun hysteria of new world order were growing. I remember the CrossRoads shows twice a year, HUGE shows but with a lot of literature and hysteria of burying your guns, preparing for government takeover, black helicopters etc...........

Now those things seem trivial and silly compared to radical islam around the corner of the neighborhood.

And who would have thought that the AWBan would not be renewed (I never knew it was a 10year experiment) and that PRO_GUN laws would be passed nationwide? The momentum is on our side, the soccer-moms have turned into defense-moms and congress knows it.

We just have to win the tug-o-war against the die hards that are still in power, those two CA women, argh.

DrjonesUSA
04-03-2007, 10:37 PM
I plan on joining the ATF in a few years and therefore would prefer not to boot them :)


Seriously: What is wrong with you?

stag1500
04-03-2007, 11:06 PM
Add Parker v. DC into the mix and things are moving the right direction for the first time in a long time.
-Gene

+1 to that! The Parker v. DC case really got the anti-gun crowd scared. This is the first time I've ever seen them on the defensive. :D

SemiAutoSam
04-03-2007, 11:23 PM
As our Mole of course ? or are you changing sides ?

I plan on joining the ATF in a few years and therefore would prefer not to boot them :)

1stLineGear
04-04-2007, 6:06 PM
I was somewhat venting after reading about all the ATF abuses. When there are 75 million gun owners you would think more would be done to prevent 2nd amendment abuses. On a positive note it is awesome to think of the potential 75 million member militia we have here in the U.S. That is power.

I am not so sure about gun control being a dead issue. I hope you are right Hoffmang.




Mike,

Look around man. In California, we've only made progress over the last 18 months and the movement is stronger than its ever been.

In the rest of the US, gun control is a dead issue. The Dems are afraid that pro gun bills can get through the house and senate they control because of all the pro gun dems that were elected last time.

Add Parker v. DC into the mix and things are moving the right direction for the first time in a long time.

-Gene

Sarkoon
04-05-2007, 11:35 AM
I plan on joining the ATF in a few years and therefore would prefer not to boot them :)

Seriously: What is wrong with you?

+1

You really want to be an evil henchman working for the IRS?

rocknut
04-05-2007, 1:16 PM
+1

You really want to be an evil henchman working for the IRS?

Better someone with our 2A views then some anti gunner in the position. Lets just hope that its the BATE in a couple years. (thats right, no F in there!)