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HowardW56
02-22-2012, 7:38 AM
Disarming the Myths Promoted By the Gun Control Lobby
Larry Bell, Contributor
2/21/2012 @ 1:32PM




As much as gun control advocates might wish otherwise, their attacks are running out of ammo. With private firearm ownership at an all-time high and violent crime rates plunging, none of the scary scenarios they advanced have materialized. Abuse of responsibility by armed citizens is rare, while successful defensive interventions against assaults on their lives and property are relatively commonplace.

National violent crime rates that soared for 30 years from the early 1960s began to decrease markedly since 1993. Last December the FBI reported that murder and other violent crime rates fell again by 6.4% during the first half of 2011 compared with the same period in 2010. A Gallup poll indicates that ďAmericansí preference regarding gun laws is generally that the government enforce existing laws more strictly and not pass new laws.Ē

Complete Column (http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/02/21/disarming-the-myths-promoted-by-the-gun-control-lobby/)

ElvenSoul
02-22-2012, 8:04 AM
Loving it!

SoCal Bob
02-22-2012, 8:30 AM
Great article, I thought this was especially interesting:

On the other hand, Newsweek has reported that law-abiding American citizens using guns in self-defense during 2003 shot and killed two and one-half times as many criminals as police did, and with fewer than one-fifth as many incidents as police where an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal (2% versus 11%).

HowardW56
02-22-2012, 9:03 AM
Great article, I thought this was especially interesting:

On the other hand, Newsweek has reported that law-abiding American citizens using guns in self-defense during 2003 shot and killed two and one-half times as many criminals as police did, and with fewer than one-fifth as many incidents as police where an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal (2% versus 11%).

:43:

Nachoman
02-22-2012, 9:21 AM
Wow, that author opened up a whole can of statistical whoopass.

wilit
02-22-2012, 9:32 AM
Great article, thanks for posting!

Arondos
02-22-2012, 10:24 AM
Great article. I like the stat about home break ins in Canada and the UK.

I would say that "and with fewer than one-fifth as many incidents as police where an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal (2% versus 11%). " is kind of a loaded stat.

Someone breaks into my house, or pulls a weapon on me I am probably not going to misidentify them. If they get away and the police have to find them once they are running and other people are around of course the odds go up.

DannyInSoCal
02-22-2012, 10:24 AM
Great article - And shows the pathetic weakened stance of the "BradyBunch"...

Untamed1972
02-22-2012, 10:42 AM
On the other hand, Newsweek has reported that law-abiding American citizens using guns in self-defense during 2003 shot and killed two and one-half times as many criminals as police did, and with fewer than one-fifth as many incidents as police where an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal (2% versus 11%).

So private citizens shoot more criminals and make less mistakes when doing so than do the Police.......yet the police are the only ones "trained enough" to carry/use guns in public?

I need to get an updated version of the "anti-gunners logic translator" because that one just doesn't compute! :rolleyes:

speedrrracer
02-22-2012, 12:22 PM
I'm much happier having read that article. Thanks for posting.

Librarian
02-22-2012, 12:36 PM
Good article; little nit: A National Crime Victimization Study (NCVS) which asked victims if they had used a gun in self-defense found that about 108,000 each year had done so. A big problem with the NCVS line of survey reasoning, however, is that it only includes those uses where a citizen kills a criminal, not when one is only wounded, is held by the intended victim until police arrive, or when brandishing a gun caused a criminal to flee.
That's not quite the right criticism of NCVS. The survey first asks if the respondent is a victim of a crime; in cases where, for example "brandishing a gun caused a criminal to flee", the speculation is that the respondent will not feel he/she has been a victim of a crime. If that is so, then the follow-up questions on 'what did you do' do not get asked.

The second criticism is that the respondents are part of a known long-term study, and the interviewers are identified as part of a government agency; the speculation is that some respondents will be reticent about reporting gun uses, since they may in fact be violating local laws (Chicago and D.C., for prominent examples, though the survey respondents are from lots of places).

See the NVCS home page: http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=dcdetail&iid=245

YubaRiver
02-22-2012, 12:59 PM
Disarming the Myths Promoted By the Gun Control Lobby
Larry Bell, Contributor
2/21/2012 @ 1:32PM





National violent crime rates that soared for 30 years from the early 1960s began to decrease markedly since 1993.


Complete Column (http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/02/21/disarming-the-myths-promoted-by-the-gun-control-lobby/)

Similar to the Freakonomics time frame showing legalization of abortion
as the driving factor in reduced crime.

http://www.freakonomics.com/2005/05/15/abortion-and-crime-who-should-you-believe/

Dreaded Claymore
02-22-2012, 3:43 PM
I wonder why Forbes has been publishing articles like this one about firearms law and policy. I'm not knocking it, I'm just puzzled that a business magazine would care. It's definitely a good thing, though.

jwkincal
02-22-2012, 3:50 PM
Firearms manufacturers have been a very big business news story for a couple of years now (see the other thread about Obama as gun salesman).

Also, Forbes is kinda one of those wealthy conservative rags so it appeals to their demographic base.

RKV
02-22-2012, 5:54 PM
Well done and good reading in the mainstream press. Would not have read this kind of article even a few years ago. Progress! Or as my co-conspirator John Richardson of "No Lawyers Only Guns And Money" puts it "Shall issue is the new normal." Heh.

Wherryj
02-22-2012, 6:05 PM
Great article. I like the stat about home break ins in Canada and the UK.

I would say that "and with fewer than one-fifth as many incidents as police where an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal (2% versus 11%). " is kind of a loaded stat.

Someone breaks into my house, or pulls a weapon on me I am probably not going to misidentify them. If they get away and the police have to find them once they are running and other people are around of course the odds go up.

I think that it all depends upon the prosecutor who charges you. If that prosecutor has a "career to make", you will have misidentified the "troubled young man who had just straightened out his life" before somehow inexplicably meeting you in your own home holding a machete at the throat of your tied up family.

You must have just misunderstood the gentleman's intentions...

Although I do get your point. Officers end up "walking" into situations with little to no previous knowledge of the circumstances. It is a difficult job.

Marxman
02-22-2012, 6:10 PM
On the other hand, Newsweek has reported that law-abiding American citizens using guns in self-defense during 2003 shot and killed two and one-half times as many criminals as police did, and with fewer than one-fifth as many incidents as police where an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal (2% versus 11%).

I have a new favorite statistic with which to parry the ignorant falsified information of gun control supporters who seem to outnumber me everywhere on campus. Today is a good day.

Joe
02-22-2012, 6:17 PM
Best

article

ever

furyous68
02-22-2012, 8:10 PM
^^^^ x infinity!

Librarian
02-22-2012, 10:12 PM
Best

article

ever

Well, it's nice and all that - very approachable to non-lawyers and non-statisticians - and certainly it's a good thing that it appears in Forbes rather than Guns & Ammo, but it isn't at all ground breaking in content.

For example, I bought the hardcopy issue of Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology (Northwestern) Guns and Violence Symposium, vol. 86, no. 1, 1995: 150. (http://www.saf.org/lawreviews/kleckandgertz1.htm) and saw pre-release info before that symposium issue was printed.

Shotgun Man
02-22-2012, 10:20 PM
We all call it an "article," because it is somewhat favorable, whereas the antis would call it an "opinion piece."

Similary, we would jump on them in the same manner if the tables where turned.

penguinofsleep
02-23-2012, 12:05 AM
OP thanks for the great article.

biggest reason why i think this is in forbes:
Sanetti observes that the $4.1 billion gun industry “has had nineteen months of growth in an otherwise anemic economy.”

mag360
02-23-2012, 1:24 AM
the bradys wouldn't like it because it doesn't mindlessly drone on about the number of gun deaths in the US. They leave out that it includes gang on gang violence, cops shooting criminals, people shooting criminals, and accidents all lumped into the same number.

Heatseeker
02-23-2012, 6:14 AM
Great article! If only our state rulers would read and understand the facts....

CDFingers
02-23-2012, 7:28 AM
Good piece.

CDFingers

ja308
02-23-2012, 7:51 AM
Great article, I thought this was especially interesting:

On the other hand, Newsweek has reported that law-abiding American citizens using guns in self-defense during 2003 shot and killed two and one-half times as many criminals as police did, and with fewer than one-fifth as many incidents as police where an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal (2% versus 11%).

would you kindly give me a link to the newsweek article or what month the article appeared .
Thank You

HowardW56
02-23-2012, 7:58 AM
would you kindly give me a link to the newsweek article or what month the article appeared .
Thank You

If you would go to the first post, you can follow the link to the article in Forbes. If the information you want isn't there, you could always write to the author...

ja308
02-23-2012, 8:06 AM
I wonder why Forbes has been publishing articles like this one about firearms law and policy. I'm not knocking it, I'm just puzzled that a business magazine would care. It's definitely a good thing, though.

I have subscribed to Forbes for many years .

Forbes policy regarding their storys and articles are always clearly written intelligent and often times fun.

Forbes published the arrest ANTIGUN company heir SC Johnson for alledgedly having sex with a 15 year old relative .


Forbes would likely not be in business very long if they put out bad info .
The subscribtion base to Forbes are mostly wealthy( Not Me)and as such need to trust what they read .

As for the gun article , Forbes does lots on vacation spots and worldwide travel for earths wealthest people .
At times Berretta runs ads for high end shotguns .

ja308
02-23-2012, 8:32 AM
If you would go to the first post, you can follow the link to the article in Forbes. If the information you want isn't there, you could always write to the author...

I was curious about the posters reference to a pro gun article in Newsweek .

The link to the Newsweek story would be helpful to me.

Newsweek is listed under antigun media via the NRA -- I would like to see the supposedly pro gun article the poster spoke of as to possibly get them off the ANTI GUN list if in fact they have changed their stripes.

MadMax
02-23-2012, 8:52 AM
Very sweet article, the tides are turning:D

REPR
02-23-2012, 9:14 AM
Great article, I love the comment the Author left.

I sure feel a lot safer knowing that Iím in the company of armed and proven law-abiding citizens than sharing the road with millions of others driving much more lethal devices who have no comparable screening.

BusBoy
02-23-2012, 9:29 AM
Pretty decent article... thanks!

HowardW56
02-23-2012, 12:42 PM
I was curious about the posters reference to a pro gun article in Newsweek .

The link to the Newsweek story would be helpful to me.

Newsweek is listed under antigun media via the NRA -- I would like to see the supposedly pro gun article the poster spoke of as to possibly get them off the ANTI GUN list if in fact they have changed their stripes.


The reference to Newsweek is lifted directly from the Forbes article....

Green Ice Dragon
02-23-2012, 12:54 PM
Nevermind. Found the link.

ja308
02-23-2012, 12:58 PM
The reference to Newsweek is lifted directly from the Forbes article....
Thank You Sir
I will carefully re read the article

BKinzey
02-23-2012, 1:00 PM
I was curious about the posters reference to a pro gun article in Newsweek .....

He quoted a line from the Forbes article. The Forbes article makes reference to the Newsweek article.

Quinc
02-23-2012, 1:24 PM
Similar to the Freakonomics time frame showing legalization of abortion
as the driving factor in reduced crime.

http://www.freakonomics.com/2005/05/15/abortion-and-crime-who-should-you-believe/


THIS^ You can stream it on netflix.

Curtis
02-24-2012, 4:18 AM
I didn't know this:

a Pepsi and Honda Super Bowl advertisement spot featured New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Bostonís Thomas Menino on a couch calling for stricter government measures to curb illegal gun sales

HowardW56
02-24-2012, 5:21 AM
I didn't know this:

There was a thread about it... (http://216.218.212.179/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=531407)

dieselpower
02-24-2012, 5:52 AM
nice...got to keep those stats in the head..and his references too.

ja308
02-24-2012, 9:00 AM
There was a thread about it... (http://216.218.212.179/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=531407)



I knew of billionare kid bloomberg and his trusty sidekick merino .
But did not know PEPSI and HONDA would be dumb (arrogant) enough to pay for it .
Next time someone is stuck in one of these toilet cities , please report if city vehicles are HONDA's with PEPSI logo plastered all over them:eek:

dieselpower
02-24-2012, 6:46 PM
So private citizens shoot more criminals and make less mistakes when doing so than do the Police.......yet the police are the only ones "trained enough" to carry/use guns in public?

I need to get an updated version of the "anti-gunners logic translator" because that one just doesn't compute! :rolleyes:

Its straight forward logic when you think about it.
1) LEO carry and draw firearms well BEFORE the average citizen could legally. It is easy to see how they could make a mistake more often than a civilian. They also have to make judgment calls more often since they MUST draw sooner.

2) Civilians outnumber LEO like 5000:1...of course we kill more criminals than them. We also (for the most part) have to wait until the criminal is committing a violent act. Most civilians don't have a LTC, we meet up with criminals in & on our land. Criminals come to us, while LEO mainly respond AFTER the fact.

3) Most criminals will surrender to LEO. You or I meet that same criminal he will attack rather than back off. I am not saying LEO have it easy...they do not. I am not saying there are not cop killing criminals...there are many and LEO must treat all people as if they are...see #1. Just saying I don't have a helicopter with spot light, 4 cruisers, and a K9 unit backing me up....:cool2: