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View Full Version : Toy Guns Becoming A Criminal Offense


kaligaran
02-21-2012, 12:03 PM
http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/02/20/toy-guns-becoming-a-criminal-offense/

"If the legislation is passed, people who possess these toy guns and use it to commit a felony, would be punishable for up to 18 months behind bars and be subject to fines."



Wow... just wow...

zfields
02-21-2012, 12:30 PM
I'm ok with this.


Personally I think they should be charged as if it was a real gun either way.

bloodhawke83
02-21-2012, 12:31 PM
fail

Coded-Dude
02-21-2012, 12:35 PM
what do the people who couldn't determine a toy gun was being used on them get charged with?

:hide:

SocomM4
02-21-2012, 12:49 PM
^ are you being serious?


Good, it's not always easy to tell real from fake, especially when someone pulls it on you. Even if it's a soap carving painted black,it's being presented as a deadly weapon .

SanPedroShooter
02-21-2012, 3:18 PM
I agree, if you pretend its a deadly weapon, present it as one, or use it like one, you're going down.

If someone pulls a black plastic handgun on me, I an not going to check if its airsoft.

kaligaran
02-21-2012, 3:36 PM
I agree, if someone uses anything against me that looks like it will kill/hurt me, I'm going to react as such.

What I don't understand is why is this law needed? I thought if you pretend to have a gun, then you are charged as if you did have a gun. I remember seeing some footage of a guy that robbed a gas station with a candy bar he put under his shirt and pointed at the attendant. IIRC he was charged as if it were a gun.

23 Blast
02-21-2012, 3:54 PM
I agree, if someone uses anything against me that looks like it will kill/hurt me, I'm going to react as such.

What I don't understand is why is this law needed? I thought if you pretend to have a gun, then you are charged as if you did have a gun. I remember seeing some footage of a guy that robbed a gas station with a candy bar he put under his shirt and pointed at the attendant. IIRC he was charged as if it were a gun.

If you outlaw candy bars, only outlaws will have candy bars.

Funny - but I also thought this law was already basically in effect. If you use something that isn't actually a deadly weapon, but present it as such, you're charged as though you were using one.

bohoki
02-21-2012, 4:14 PM
wait is this somehow saying if someone uses a real gun things will go better for them?

dieselpower
02-21-2012, 5:55 PM
wait is this somehow saying if someone uses a real gun things will go better for them?

yes. If the firearm was a real I think the crimes start at misdemeanor...:facepalm:

dieselpower
02-21-2012, 5:56 PM
question...
which crime would you see less time in jail for...

carrying a concealed unloaded firearm (full magazine in another pocket)

or

carrying a concealed dirk, dagger with a 12" blade.

Deamer
02-21-2012, 5:58 PM
wait is this somehow saying if someone uses a real gun things will go better for them?

Ya, they will make a plea bargain and get the gun charge dropped and be out in two weeks.

The Gleam
02-21-2012, 6:04 PM
I think it's a good idea; you present a gun as real, and using it in a threatening way, or try to rob a bank with it, it's criminal (you're already comitting a felony anyway).

Besides, it could serve to help those who shoot such idiots in self defense, in how the criminal presented the gun. It wasn't just a toy at that point, it was beleived to be a real gun.

You wouldn't have to worry about hearing: "You should have known it was a toy, and identified it as such before you shot the guy in self-defense, even though he told you it was real."

Riflewizard
02-21-2012, 6:24 PM
I'd rather be held up by a candy bar than a 9mm.

zfields
02-21-2012, 6:37 PM
question...
which crime would you see less time in jail for...

carrying a concealed unloaded firearm (full magazine in another pocket)

or

carrying a concealed dirk, dagger with a 12" blade.

I dont think I want to know the answer in CA.

Mikeb
02-21-2012, 7:41 PM
If you outlaw candy bars, only outlaws will have candy bars.

Funny - but I also thought this law was already basically in effect. If you use something that isn't actually a deadly weapon, but present it as such, you're charged as though you were using one.

I thought they outlawed candy bars yesterday.... maybe that was just magnums...
Mike

dwtt
02-22-2012, 12:47 AM
I agree, if someone uses anything against me that looks like it will kill/hurt me, I'm going to react as such.

What I don't understand is why is this law needed? I thought if you pretend to have a gun, then you are charged as if you did have a gun. I remember seeing some footage of a guy that robbed a gas station with a candy bar he put under his shirt and pointed at the attendant. IIRC he was charged as if it were a gun.
You almost answered your own question. If some criminal robs someone with a toy gun, he can claim honestly that he didn't use a gun since it was a toy. The crime would likely be downgraded to a misdemeanor with a plea bargain. With this law, that escape hatch is removed because using a toy gun would be the same as using a real gun and it would be a felony crime. Just remember that laws in other states aren't identical to California's and you'll begin to understand why this law is needed.

FatalKitty
02-22-2012, 9:01 AM
I seam to remember in CA a young kid presenting a snickers bar as a firearm in his shirt pocket... and was charged as if he had a weapon.

I agree with it

njineermike
02-22-2012, 9:18 AM
I'm fine with this law, as long as lethal force self defense when the same toy gun is presented as real is ALSO considered justified. If I don't know if it's real or not, then shoot the village idiot pointing it at me or my kid or a bank teller, I don't want to have the local DA after me because lethal force was unjustified because it wasn't a real gun.

NeenachGuy
02-22-2012, 11:50 AM
This seems reasonable to me, as long as they're not using this legislation as a stepping stone to impose further anti-(toy)gun legislation down the road, such as banning toy guns from city limits, or imposing some kind of background check and waiting period for purchase of said toy guns.

But, aren't there existing laws and precedents set that would come into play in the same scenario where this new law applies? Is a new law really needed?

paratroop
02-22-2012, 12:31 PM
question...
which crime would you see less time in jail for...

carrying a concealed unloaded firearm (full magazine in another pocket)

or

carrying a concealed dirk, dagger with a 12" blade.

I do believe packing heat, as long as it is legally yours( i.e. registered, etc.) without LTC = misdemeanor.

concealed dirk, dagger, brass knuckles, etc. = felony

Could be wrong.

stix213
02-22-2012, 1:05 PM
The law, as discussed in the article, doesn't sound unreasonable to me. The only part I am concerned about is the gun that looks like a toy part. Are they going to just restrict idiots who paint the tip of their Draco AK pistol orange? (fine by me) Or are they going to come down on anyone who does a cool duracoat job on their gun?

kermit315
02-23-2012, 3:27 PM
Florida 4 District Court of Appeals says that using a toy gun isnt enough to get an armed robbery charge anymore, regardless of what the person being robbed believed.

http://www.4dca.org/opinions/Oct%202011/10-12-11/4D09-1559.op.pdf