PDA

View Full Version : CCW question, what do you guys think?


ubet
02-21-2012, 7:48 AM
When I got my ccw, the Sheriff told me that I could put a rifle(s) on there too (would allow me to legally drive on pavement with mag inserted, one in the chamber, but would have to unload when I was away from the vehicle in town). I was thinking of putting my 10/20 on there. What say you guys?

QuarterBoreGunner
02-21-2012, 8:15 AM
Okay, this is going make me sound like an ***, but your post makes no sense what so ever to me.

Rifle on CCW? (Granted it has happened before but rarely)
On pavement? What does that have to do with it?
Chambered but you have to unload when it's unattended?
A 10/22? For a defensive firearm?

No sense.
This post makes no sense.

ubet
02-21-2012, 8:22 AM
Okay, this is going make me sound like an ***, but your post makes no sense what so ever to me.

Rifle on CCW? (Granted it has happened before but rarely) Yes, for a "truck gun"
On pavement? What does that have to do with it? Because I, like a lot of people in agriculture keep loaded rifles in my trucks while they are not on public roadways, for dispensing of coyotes, squirrels and the like and to connect it to above question, it saves hassle when going from one ranch to the next if you have to drive on public roadways.
Chambered but you have to unload when it's unattended? Yes, because you cant leave a loaded gun in a vehicle (if I am correct), say you go to town and go into walmart, rifle needs to be unloaded, legally (and probably out of sight)
A 10/22? For a defensive firearm? Among others I was considering, not for a sd weapon, no.

No sense.
This post makes no sense.
[COLOR="Black"]My replies are in red. Does that help it make more sense?

QuarterBoreGunner
02-21-2012, 8:32 AM
My thoughts:

Well the official name of the document as issued by the DOJ is: "License To Carry Concealed Pistol, Revolver, or Other Firearm Within the State of California" - "Other Firearm" being the important part here, and since I know personally of one other LTC holder that had/has a pistol gripped Remington 870 on his license, I suppose it's entirely feasible.
But since it's a truck gun, why not just stuff it under the dash/behind the seats and have a loaded mag secured elsewhere? No need to have it on the LTC, but that's your and the issuing agency's call.

The 'on pavement' thing/unloaded while unattended is something that your issuing agency has come up with on their own it sounds like. There's nothing in the Cal PC regarding it.

And a 10/22 for disposing of varmints makes sense, if you buy into all the above requirement.

It's just overall an odd thing.

But hey?! If you can make it work, go for it.

ubet
02-21-2012, 8:35 AM
Ok, to add to above. Whats better for self defense, shotgun, AR, or a handgun. I am gonna say the first two. If you can legally carry a long gun in your vehicle loaded and can get to it (in the EXTREMELY unlikely chance you would ever need it), wouldnt it be better than a handgun?

I spend a lot of time alone and I live in a fairly rural area (for this state), and things cross my mind, a lot of what ifs. These are just things I have pondered and am curious to see what others think. Probably will never put a rifle on a ccw, but its an interesting thought, albeit outside the box.

ubet
02-21-2012, 8:38 AM
QBG, I thought it was illegal to leave a firearm loaded in a vehicle while it was unatteneded?

When I was talking about "on pavement" maybe I wasnt clear, I used it in the regards of driving on public roads, in town and such.

Big Ben
02-21-2012, 8:48 AM
Ubet - I'm my county, I'm limited to 3 weapons on my LTC, so I probably wouldn't want to take up one of those 3 spots with a "truck gun" when, as QBC mentions, you can get around the requirements with a long gun fairly easily.

However, if your county doesn't limit the number of weapons you can put on your permit, I'd put every gun I owned on it. Anyway, good luck figuring out what works best for you.

QuarterBoreGunner
02-21-2012, 8:54 AM
Every individual's perception for an adequate self-defense tool is very subjective; 95% of my daily activity is in a very urban environment and my choice for a primary firearm reflects that. Were I (like yourself) in more of a rural environment, I'd choose differently.
As to the rifle versus shotgun versus handgun issue, I'm going to fall back to "better the handgun you have on you than the rifle you have to get to" school of thought.

QBG, I thought it was illegal to leave a firearm loaded in a vehicle while it was unatteneded?

Ah, I'm pummeling my brain right now and I can't come up with a PC that covers that; there are PC on leaving a loaded firearm accessible to a minor child, but I don't recall anything vehicle related other than various regs on transportation. If the weapon is on your LTC, then it's supposed to be under your control at all times.

And I have to plead ignorance on the 'paved versus unpaved road' thing, there may be PC on that, but I have no idea.

SVT-40
02-21-2012, 8:58 AM
A concealed carry permit is just that a CONCEALED carry permit. It does not allow one to carry a loaded firearm unconcealed, or have loaded firearms exposed in a vehicle.

Look on your license or permit and see if it allows you to carry your loaded firearm exposed.......If it does not specifically say you are allowed to carry exposed loaded firearms then you are not allowed to carry them in that manner whether on your person or in a vehicle.

ubet
02-21-2012, 10:08 AM
A concealed carry permit is just that a CONCEALED carry permit. It does not allow one to carry a loaded firearm unconcealed, or have loaded firearms exposed in a vehicle.

Look on your license or permit and see if it allows you to carry your loaded firearm exposed.......If it does not specifically say you are allowed to carry exposed loaded firearms then you are not allowed to carry them in that manner whether on your person or in a vehicle.

A rifle is legally not concealable though, that is why it can put under a rug, seats or what have you can not be charged with carrying a concealed firearm. I am in no way saying carrying it while walking through the mall (although I guess technically you could, if you concealed it ie a sbr/sbs under a coat what have you).

A pistol, someone step in if I am wrong, if on your ccw you can still be loc where loc is legal, correct?

Ben, my county actually limits us to two firearms. I only have one pistol on it though for a lot of reasons.

negolien
02-21-2012, 10:41 AM
When I got my ccw, the Sheriff told me that I could put a rifle(s) on there too (would allow me to legally drive on pavement with mag inserted, one in the chamber, but would have to unload when I was away from the vehicle in town). I was thinking of putting my 10/20 on there. What say you guys?

Yeah what a winner of an idea...:facepalm: Another example of the perfect way for weapons to fall into the hands of criminals..Your gonna spend more time with it in an attended vehicle than you will being with it. This is also why you purchase a small gunsafe which bolts down or cable locks in your trunk for storage of your handgun for small and not regular times when you can't CCW.

ubet
02-21-2012, 11:18 AM
Yeah what a winner of an idea...:facepalm: Another example of the perfect way for weapons to fall into the hands of criminals..Your gonna spend more time with it in an attended vehicle than you will being with it. This is also why you purchase a small gunsafe which bolts down or cable locks in your trunk for storage of your handgun for small and not regular times when you can't CCW.

It might be tough for someone as self important as you to understand this, but contrary to your belief, we all don't live in cities or crime ridden areas. Some of us don't even have to take the keys out of our vehicles when we go into stores. GASP!

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk

Big Ben
02-21-2012, 11:27 AM
A pistol, someone step in if I am wrong, if on your ccw you can still be loc where loc is legal, correct?

I'm not aware of anything that would prohibit that. In an area where LOC is allowed, I can't imagine the fact that you have the weapon listed on your LTC would prohibit you from being able to carry that firearm openly.

SVT-40
02-21-2012, 11:30 AM
Below is the text from the California penal code regarding "concealed weapons licenses".

Here are the important words related to what can be licensed for 'concealed carry upon a person".

"carry a pistol,
revolver, or other firearm CAPABLE of being concealed upon the
person,

So if the firearm is not "capable" of being concealed upon the person it does not qualify for carry under the requirements of the penal code and cannot be on a license.

Also notice within the penal code the wording does not change when referring to what type of firearms are allowed on a concealed carry license.

No where does it mention rifles, shotguns or other weapons NOT capable of being concealed upon the person.


26150. (a) When a person applies for a license to carry a pistol,
revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the
person, the sheriff of a county may issue a license to that person
upon proof of all of the following:
(1) The applicant is of good moral character.
(2) Good cause exists for issuance of the license.
(3) The applicant is a resident of the county or a city within the
county, or the applicant's principal place of employment or business
is in the county or a city within the county and the applicant
spends a substantial period of time in that place of employment or
business.
(4) The applicant has completed a course of training as described
in Section 26165.
(b) The sheriff may issue a license under subdivision (a) in
either of the following formats:
(1) A license to carry concealed a pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(2) Where the population of the county is less than 200,000
persons according to the most recent federal decennial census, a
license to carry loaded and exposed in only that county a pistol,
revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the
person.


26155. (a) When a person applies for a license to carry a pistol,
revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the
person, the chief or other head of a municipal police department of
any city or city and county may issue a license to that person upon
proof of all of the following:
(1) The applicant is of good moral character.
(2) Good cause exists for issuance of the license.
(3) The applicant is a resident of that city.
(4) The applicant has completed a course of training as described
in Section 26165.
(b) The chief or other head of a municipal police department may
issue a license under subdivision (a) in either of the following
formats:
(1) A license to carry concealed a pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(2) Where the population of the county in which the city is
located is less than 200,000 persons according to the most recent
federal decennial census, a license to carry loaded and exposed in
only that county a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of
being concealed upon the person.
(c) Nothing in this chapter shall preclude the chief or other head
of a municipal police department of any city from entering an
agreement with the sheriff of the county in which the city is located
for the sheriff to process all applications for licenses, renewals
of licenses, and amendments to licenses, pursuant to this chapter.

26170. (a) Upon proof of all of the following, the sheriff of a
county, or the chief or other head of a municipal police department
of any city or city and county, may issue to an applicant a license
to carry concealed a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of
being concealed upon the person:
(1) The applicant is of good moral character.
(2) Good cause exists for issuance of the license.
(3) The applicant has been deputized or appointed as a peace
officer pursuant to subdivision (a) or (b) of Section 830.6 by that
sheriff or that chief of police or other head of a municipal police
department.
(b) Direct or indirect fees for the issuance of a license pursuant
to this section may be waived.
(c) The fact that an applicant for a license to carry a pistol,
revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person
has been deputized or appointed as a peace officer pursuant to
subdivision (a) or (b) of Section 830.6 shall be considered only for
the purpose of issuing a license pursuant to this section, and shall
not be considered for the purpose of issuing a license pursuant to
Section 26150 or 26155.


26215. (a) A person issued a license pursuant to this article may
apply to the licensing authority for an amendment to the license to
do one or more of the following:
(1) Add or delete authority to carry a particular pistol,
revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the
person.]/b]
(2) Authorize the licensee to [b]carry concealed a pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(3) If the population of the county is less than 200,000 persons
according to the most recent federal decennial census, authorize the
licensee to carry loaded and exposed in only that county a pistol,
revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the
person.
(4) Change any restrictions or conditions on the license,
including restrictions as to the time, place, manner, and
circumstances under which the person may carry a pistol, revolver, or
other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(b) If the licensing authority amends the license, a new license
shall be issued to the licensee reflecting the amendments.
(c) An amendment to the license does not extend the original
expiration date of the license and the license shall be subject to
renewal at the same time as if the license had not been amended.
(d) An application to amend a license does not constitute an
application for renewal of the license.

paul0660
02-21-2012, 11:37 AM
The problem is the "sheriff" (who was probably a deputy) saying the dumb thing in the first place. But I am sure the LEO didn't offer the bad info, he was asked.

CAPABLE of being concealed upon the
person,

says it all.

SVT-40
02-21-2012, 11:47 AM
A rifle is legally not concealable though, that is why it can put under a rug, seats or what have you can not be charged with carrying a concealed firearm. I am in no way saying carrying it while walking through the mall (although I guess technically you could, if you concealed it ie a sbr/sbs under a coat what have you).

A pistol, someone step in if I am wrong, if on your ccw you can still be loc where loc is legal, correct?

Ben, my county actually limits us to two firearms. I only have one pistol on it though for a lot of reasons.


A concealed LOADED long arm in a vehicle would be a violation of law. Since according to the California penal code a long gun cannot be listed on a concealed carry license as they would not be capable of being concealed upon a person.

As for legal open carry of a loaded hand gun. Only in a very few specific situations, and generally not in public.

A concealed carry license is just that alone, a license to "carry a concealable firearm concealed".

Nothing more....

It does not allow you to carry loaded long guns in vehicles.
It does not allow any open carry other than what is legal during some very specific situations and at specific locations.

SVT-40
02-21-2012, 11:59 AM
When I got my ccw, the Sheriff told me that I could put a rifle(s) on there too (would allow me to legally drive on pavement with mag inserted, one in the chamber, but would have to unload when I was away from the vehicle in town). I was thinking of putting my 10/20 on there. What say you guys?

Your Sheriff is a fool and put you in danger. He does not have the authority to permit things not allowed under the penal code.

If you have a firearm NOT capable of being concealed upon a person on your concealed carry license it would not be valid, and could call the entirety of your license to be called into question.

Librarian
02-21-2012, 12:01 PM
QBG, I thought it was illegal to leave a firearm loaded in a vehicle while it was unatteneded?

Only in the sense of 'loaded in public without LTC', there's nothing in PC about that.

And SVT-40 is correct - the PC says LTC is for weapons capable of being concealed, and a rifle, by definition, cannot be concealed.