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thetortfeasor
02-20-2012, 11:00 PM
I know we have a number of lawyers and law students who frequent this board, so I thought I'd pass this information along. . .


AMERICAN BAR ASSOCIATION ADDS SECOND AMENDMENT SUBCOMMITTEE

The Civil Rights Litigation Committee of the American Bar Association Section of Litigation has formed a Second Amendment Subcommittee.

The subcommittee is chaired by civil rights litigator, Bobbie K. Ross. Her practice areas include firearms-related litigation and regulatory matters, municipal law, state legislation, constitutional law, and general civil litigation.

The subcommittee joins other Civil Rights Litigation subcommittees, including those addressing the First Amendment, Criminal Justice, Disability Discrimination, and Race/National Origin/Language Discrimination, among others.

Among the subcommittee’s goals is encouraging frank and honest discussion regarding the Second Amendment. As the right to keep and bear arms can be something of a controversial issue, the subcommittee encourages individuals from both sides of the aisle to engage in honest discussion on legal theory and policy surrounding the right recently deemed fundamental.

Look forward to more information about the subcommittee’s activities and events coming soon. Those interested in civil rights and, more specifically, Second Amendment-related litigation, are encouraged to join the ABA Section of Litigation Civil Rights Committee and its Second Amendment subcommittee.

NotEnufGarage
02-20-2012, 11:13 PM
The subcommittee's first by-law should be that facts and properly vetted statistics need to be introduced to support any claims or assertions.

That would prevent the antis from being heard.

Librarian
02-20-2012, 11:15 PM
Ok, that's promising. :)

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/bobbie-k-ross/3/582/849

Member, Editorial Board at Minority Trial Lawyer Newsletter
Chair, Second Amendment Subcommittee at American Bar Association, Section of Litigation, Civil Rights Committee
Attorney/Law Clerk at Michel & Associates, P.C.

Stonewalker
02-20-2012, 11:17 PM
The subcommittee's first by-law should be that facts and properly vetted statistics need to be introduced to support any claims or assertions.

That would prevent the antis from being heard.

Isn't that sort of exactly what lawyers do? Evaluate statements based on formal logic? This seems like a good thing to me.... I hope it is!

thetortfeasor
02-20-2012, 11:26 PM
Ok, that's promising. :)

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/bobbie-k-ross/3/582/849


Thanks. :)


Isn't that sort of exactly what lawyers do? Evaluate statements based on formal logic? This seems like a good thing to me.... I hope it is!

It is. Some people view the ABA as being somewhat anti. The fact that this subcommittee was created is a good thing. Hopefully, it will grow into a full-fledged committee at some point in the near future.

freonr22
02-20-2012, 11:34 PM
Goo team

REPR
02-21-2012, 5:40 AM
Right on!

SanPedroShooter
02-21-2012, 5:44 AM
"....the right recently deemed fundamental."

Better late than never!

Ford8N
02-21-2012, 6:32 AM
The subcommittee's first by-law should be that facts and properly vetted statistics need to be introduced to support any claims or assertions.

That would prevent the antis from being heard.

Excellent idea. But as with most things, especially ABA, politics and "pc" will color any Facts or Statistics used to support findings.

A-J
02-21-2012, 8:07 AM
The subcommittee's first by-law should be that facts and properly vetted statistics need to be introduced to support any claims or assertions.

That would prevent the antis from being heard.

I don't think it would. Because they counter any statistic in favor of firearms/less restrictions with rhetori on how the numbers are manipulated by the gun lobby, without providing any evidence. And they've proven time and again that they can get all the press they need, because doom sells.

Mulay El Raisuli
02-21-2012, 8:08 AM
It is. Some people view the ABA as being somewhat anti. The fact that this subcommittee was created is a good thing. Hopefully, it will grow into a full-fledged committee at some point in the near future.


"Somewhat" anti????


The Raisuli

thetortfeasor
02-21-2012, 8:23 AM
"Somewhat" anti????


The Raisuli

Well, they did give me the go-ahead to start this subcommittee, so I'm giving them some credit for that.

Meplat
02-21-2012, 8:53 AM
Well, they did give me the go-ahead to start this subcommittee, so I'm giving them some credit for that.

Credit? Why? It will just be used against us.

berto
02-21-2012, 9:06 AM
Be wary of your committee becoming a research group pushing the most restrictive 2A interpretation possible. Good luck.

Rossi357
02-21-2012, 9:14 AM
http://apps.americanbar.org/litigation/committees/minority/articles/summer2011-second-amendment-jurisprudence.html

sergtjim
02-21-2012, 9:52 AM
I'm not so sure this is an "anti" thing. Those lawers who have prevailed in 2nd amendment cases seem to have taken home a butt load of money. In the last three years an entirely new area of litigation has opened up. Fertile fields for those who can get in on the ground floor.

berto
02-21-2012, 11:03 AM
Here's the ABA Standing Committee on Gun Violence: (It's not the OP's committee)

http://www.americanbar.org/groups/committees/gun_violence/about_us.html


Since 1965, the American Bar Association has sought to address the problem of gun violence. This effort led to the Committee’s creation in 1994, following the adoption of a report committing the Association to join in a coordinated public education, bar activation, and legislative effort aimed at reducing gun violence with colleagues in the public health, law enforcement and religious communities. A major focus of the committee has been to articulate, and help implement, ABA policies regarding the regulation of firearms in our society. Toward that end the Association has adopted over a dozen policy recommendations aimed at more closely regulating the sale, transfer, possession and manufacture of guns. Many of these policy recommendations have been directed to the provisions contained in the Gun Control Act of 1968 and desired amendments.


Note the committee members. Note where they work and who they represent. This is the kind of ABA "leadership" the OP is trying to counteract. I wish much luck.

Stonewalker
02-21-2012, 11:27 AM
Here's the ABA Standing Committee on Gun Violence:

http://www.americanbar.org/groups/committees/gun_violence/about_us.html



Note the committee members. Note where they work and who they represent.

Are these the same subcommittees? Is Ross on the same committee with Horwitz, Leftwitch and Hennigan? Little confused here.

BRoss
02-21-2012, 12:07 PM
Are these the same subcommittees? Is Ross on the same committee with Horwitz, Leftwitch and Hennigan? Little confused here.

No. The Standing Committee on Gun Violence is separate from the subcommittee I am chairing. The subcommittee I'm working on is part of the Section of Litigation and is under the umbrella of the Civil Rights Committee.

http://apps.americanbar.org/litigation/committees/civil/about.html (http://apps.americanbar.org/litigation/committees/civil.html)

Dreaded Claymore
02-21-2012, 1:08 PM
Ok, that's promising. :)

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/bobbie-k-ross/3/582/849

Niiiiiiiice. :thumbsup:

A-J
02-21-2012, 1:22 PM
Here's the ABA Standing Committee on Gun Violence:

http://www.americanbar.org/groups/committees/gun_violence/about_us.html


Note the committee members. Note where they work and who they represent.

Now I'm really confused. At first it seemd like a good thing for us. First they say they want to reduce gun violence. Admirable, and I'm all for that. But then they go on to say that they want more restrictions on "the sale, transfer, possession and manufacture of guns." That sounds like the same old argument - more laws = less gun violence.

If that's the jumping off point, then I don't see any good here, but again, maybe I'm confused and the words I read mean something different.

BRoss
02-21-2012, 1:30 PM
Now I'm really confused. At first it seemd like a good thing for us. First they say they want to reduce gun violence. Admirable, and I'm all for that. But then they go on to say that they want more restrictions on "the sale, transfer, possession and manufacture of guns." That sounds like the same old argument - more laws = less gun violence.

If that's the jumping off point, then I don't see any good here, but again, maybe I'm confused and the words I read mean something different.


See post #19.

morfeeis
02-21-2012, 1:36 PM
Now I'm really confused. At first it seemd like a good thing for us. First they say they want to reduce gun violence. Admirable, and I'm all for that. But then they go on to say that they want more restrictions on "the sale, transfer, possession and manufacture of guns." That sounds like the same old argument - more laws = less gun violence.

If that's the jumping off point, then I don't see any good here, but again, maybe I'm confused and the words I read mean something different.
I think these are two different committees. kind of like how on CG.net we have those that are pro open carry and those that are anti open carry. But hey what the hell do i know.....

mag360
02-21-2012, 1:49 PM
its not that hard guys. He is forming a committee to better align with pro gun rights=civil rights interests. Against the longstanding ABA committee on gun violence. This committee will focus on the civil rights (2nd amendment) side of firearm regulation issues.

Dark Paladin
02-21-2012, 1:51 PM
Assuming this new subcommittee gets the support it needs, it can very well become a voice of reason with the ABA. When you consider that lawyers tend to end up as judges, this can have some long term ramifications to complement the recent Supreme Court rulings.

I am interested to see what happens when the Standing Committee on Gun Violence begins butting heads with this subcommittee though. . .

Bobbie, I wish you the best of luck in this endeavor. Please let us know if we can be of any assistance.

Mulay El Raisuli
02-22-2012, 5:32 AM
its not that hard guys. He is forming a committee to better align with pro gun rights=civil rights interests. Against the longstanding ABA committee on gun violence. This committee will focus on the civil rights (2nd amendment) side of firearm regulation issues.


Fingers crossed.


The Raisuli

mag360
02-22-2012, 6:11 AM
me too, me too. One can have noble goals only to be derailed my higher ups and leadership, so I hope this is for the best.

uyoga
02-22-2012, 10:35 AM
So long as the guiding principle of your commitee is that: "The rights guaranteed by the Second Amendment are Civil Rights", I wish you luck and success, Bobbie.

navraster
02-22-2012, 11:52 AM
I went to law school with Bobbie and can happily report that she will be a great advocate for our Second Amendment rights. She is bright, capable, and not afraid to speak her mind. The fact that firearm rights are being discussed as a fundamental civil right by any portion of the ABA is a very positive step, and we should congratulate Bobbie on her new position.

bwiese
02-22-2012, 12:02 PM
I went to law school with Bobbie and can happily report that she will be a great advocate for our Second Amendment rights. She is bright, capable, and not afraid to speak her mind. The fact that firearm rights are being discussed as a fundamental civil right by any portion of the ABA is a very positive step, and we should congratulate Bobbie on her new position.

Absolutely!

Efforts like this are all part of playing "chess, not checkers".

Big shout out to Bobbie and team Michel & Assoc. for this progress.

thetortfeasor
02-22-2012, 12:14 PM
Absolutely!

Efforts like this are all part of playing "chess, not checkers".

Big shout out to Bobbie and team Michel & Assoc. for this progress.



Thanks, Bill. :) But just to clarify, this is something that I have been working towards on my own and do not get paid for. It is not a Michel & Assoc. firm endeavor.

ja308
02-22-2012, 12:16 PM
Looks like a good start ^5

thetortfeasor
02-22-2012, 10:03 PM
If you are a lawyer or law student, and you are interested in joining or helping out the committee, shoot me a PM with your email address.

oaklander
03-07-2012, 6:06 PM
Well, they did give me the go-ahead to start this subcommittee, so I'm giving them some credit for that.

I am going to rejoin ABA, just so I can be a part of this.

ALL - please realize that some change is incremental. As a movement, we need to fully support this. That is all I will say.

mag360
03-07-2012, 8:45 PM
I am going to rejoin ABA, just so I can be a part of this.

ALL - please realize that some change is incremental. As a movement, we need to fully support this. That is all I will say.

I really should get my butt back to UC Davis and get a law degree. It would be insane to try while working, but my company has a policy of paying $5000/yr towards college. Now in reality that would be tough to convince them to let me do that in my current position but, I think it would be very rewarding.

blakdawg
03-07-2012, 9:59 PM
I am going to rejoin ABA, just so I can be a part of this.

I just rejoined for that very reason.

hoffmang
03-07-2012, 11:29 PM
Bobbie's work here is excellent and we should all support her.

-Gene

curtisfong
03-07-2012, 11:52 PM
Someday, will there be civil rights lawsuits against LCAV members?

Now THAT would be justice.

hoffmang
03-08-2012, 12:22 AM
Someday, will there be civil rights lawsuits against LCAV members?

Now THAT would be justice.

As much as it would be amusing, those folks have the protections of the first amendment which protects strongly their right to prove in their own voices that they lack IQ.

-Gene

kimber_ss
03-08-2012, 2:33 AM
I support Bobbie. Chess it is!

Scott Connors
03-08-2012, 11:45 AM
As much as it would be amusing, those folks have the protections of the first amendment which protects strongly their right to prove in their own voices that they lack IQ.

-Gene

I wish that we could find some thug who'd state that a factor in his selection of victims was his knowledge that local laws made them defenseless, and then sue LCAV using the same rationale that leftist groups used to go after white supremist groups, ie that their rhetoric encouraged violence. Even better, have the crime victim sue them.

goldrush
03-08-2012, 1:07 PM
Methinks the American Bar Association might be hurting for members.

blakdawg
03-08-2012, 5:41 PM
Methinks the American Bar Association might be hurting for members.

They probably are, but it's got nothing to do with this subcommittee - the subcommittee exists because someone had the right combination of patience, motivation, and organizational finesse to get it created. The ABA also has an approximately opposite subcommittee (or committee, or commission, or section, or working group, or whatever the F they call it) that regularly issues proclamations to the effect that Heller and McDonald were giant misunderstandings and that guns ought to be regulated like radioactive waste and taxed like cigarettes, except moreso.

So the beautiful thing about the subcommittee that was created is that it can publish things and issue its own proclamations and otherwise generate PR with the ABA name on it saying pro-gun and pro-2A things, and in the eyes of the public it'll have the same weight as the effluent coming from that other group. And the other 99.99% of the ABA will have nothing to say about it, just like the other guys certainly didn't ask me before writing up the garbage they publish on the ABA's letterhead that says "2A only protects a collective right" or "guns are icky" or whatever.

And if they want to shut it down, they're going to have to explain why they want to get rid of a subcommittee that apparently exists to protect civil rights, and that's not a very happy thing to explain to other liberals. Or they can explain why a right that the Supreme Court says is part of the bill of rights is not a "civil right".

TaxAnnihilator
03-26-2012, 4:45 PM
As much as it would be amusing, those folks have the protections of the first amendment which protects strongly their right to prove in their own voices that they lack IQ.

-Gene

But they incite stupidity!

Ms. Ross was a classmate of mine as well and I am proud to say I know her. She and Chuck spoke the Chapman University School of Law's Second Amendment Association. Chapman has also had John Lott speak. Proud to alumni.

In any case, since the ABA is trying to boost its member rolls, there may be opportunity to join for free (http://apps.americanbar.org/members/mgam.html?sc_refid=200700648&sc_scid=RMM11MRRC).

BRoss
10-10-2012, 8:20 PM
The membership of the subcommittee has really grown! Instead of making a new thread, I figured I'd bump this one to remind everyone who posts on here that has any ties to the legal community to PM me their email address (or shoot me an email at the email address in my signature if they are interested in joining the subcommittee). Oh, and tell all your friends. :)

freonr22
05-26-2013, 8:14 AM
Bobbie, any progress?

hornswaggled
05-26-2013, 8:28 AM
Very happy to see this. I feel slightly less marginalized as a gun owner.

Congrats all!

gblacksmith
05-26-2013, 1:04 PM
See post #19.

Bobbie:

How can we help you!

jdberger
05-26-2013, 1:20 PM
There has been at least one forum that I'm aware of. It was live cast on the web. Bobbie might have a link.

vantec08
05-26-2013, 1:31 PM
Isn't that sort of exactly what lawyers do? Evaluate statements based on formal logic? This seems like a good thing to me.... I hope it is! Many of them are legal whores who will pander to whoever comes in the door with cash.

ssaction
05-26-2013, 2:00 PM
No. The Standing Committee on Gun Violence is separate from the subcommittee I am chairing. The subcommittee I'm working on is part of the Section of Litigation and is under the umbrella of the Civil Rights Committee.

http://apps.americanbar.org/litigation/committees/civil/about.html (http://apps.americanbar.org/litigation/committees/civil.html)

Link is broken.

BRoss
05-26-2013, 10:09 PM
Bobbie:

How can we help you!

I can always use more people to write articles/case notes on developments in the Second Amendment legal arena, case outcomes, cert denials, etc.


There has been at least one forum that I'm aware of. It was live cast on the web. Bobbie might have a link.

The audio of the subcommittee's recently held roundtable is available on the ABA website at: www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/multimedia/cle/program_recordings/IsMoreGunControltheAnsweredited.mp3


Link is broken.

http://apps.americanbar.org/litigation/committees/civil/home.html (http://apps.americanbar.org/litigation/committees/civil/home.html)

The list of subcommittees is on the bottom right.

rayrayz
05-27-2013, 10:21 AM
Looks to be a broken link?

BRoss
05-27-2013, 11:37 AM
Looks to be a broken link?

Weird. It works fine when I click on it. Maybe try it without the "http://" part?

Or, just search Google for "ABA section of litigation civil rights committee." It's the first thing that pops up.

lasbrg
05-27-2013, 1:12 PM
Ok, that's promising. :)

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/bobbie-k-ross/3/582/849

I'll say!

opzMF_SAqXk
Bobbie Ross, lawyer working for http://www.calgunsfoundation.org

Edit: Oops, just saw this was an old thread.

Schlyme
05-27-2013, 6:01 PM
Great speech. I especially love the term "Center Fire Sport Utility Rifle!"

Raystonn
05-27-2013, 6:33 PM
So, when do the soccer moms start using Sport Utility Rifles?
Alternatively, perhaps Hummers should be called Assault Vehicles.