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View Full Version : My Springfield 1911-A1 Stainless was made in Brazil?


Capybara
02-20-2012, 10:04 PM
Ughh, I feel so deceived. I bought the 1911-A1 a few years ago because I always wanted to own a classic 1911. It is a nice gun, I think it is the Loaded model, stainless, nice wooden grips, drilled trigger, hammer, etc. I was cleaning it for the first time in ages the other night and flipped it over and saw the "Brazil" mark stamped on the body. It's so weird that I bought this gun 12 years ago, have shot it a lot and cleaned it a lot and never noticed this before, minus points for my powers of observation.

So are Brazilan born Springfields considered less desirable, lower quality than American made 1911s? I know enough about cars and electronics that it largely doesn't matter any more, a good chunk of my expensive Nikon lenses were made in Thailand or China, not Japan and I know that most Hondas and Toyotas are made here in the U.S., not in Japan, but this revelation left me a bit miffed, I had no idea my "American Classic" had been cast in Brazil. Please tell me that Springfield didn't contract with Taurus.

Thanks,

Dan

WRENCHHEAD
02-20-2012, 10:10 PM
yes the frame and slide are forged in brazil. some pistols are built in brazil and some are sent back to the states for assembly

psango
02-20-2012, 10:11 PM
I have had no problem with USA or Brazilian assembled 1911's that I own. Springfield has had their frames made in Brazil for many years. They use forged frames of very high quality and their customer service is reported to be excellent. I wouldn't be concerned.

Shoot it and enjoy it.

jeffrice6
02-20-2012, 10:14 PM
You have a good 1911 don't fret. But untill you get up to the TRP, most all Springfield are built in Brazil. NM serial number Springers have more USA assembly.....

timmy8151
02-20-2012, 10:16 PM
Nothing wrong with Brazil Springfields. I have two of them and they've been flawless.

G60
02-20-2012, 10:37 PM
Doesn't matter where they're built, Springfields are top notch 1911's. Head and shoulders above some american made guns on the market.

Heiko
02-20-2012, 10:46 PM
Many, if not all, Springfield Armory 1911 pistols are made by Imbel (http://www.imbel.gov.br/) in Brazil. What I have heard is that all are made there but some are assembled and/or finished in the US.

Like others have stated, I wouldn't worry about it.

random name
02-20-2012, 10:51 PM
what next you going to tell me my XD in not made in the US

MA2
02-20-2012, 11:02 PM
i vote for sticky :p

Mr310
02-20-2012, 11:06 PM
I don't think the quality is any different. Somewhat like you though, I have a hard on against non-US made 1911s. To me, those and ARs are the only guns I would never buy unless they were made in the States.

jeffrice6
02-20-2012, 11:10 PM
what next you going to tell me my XD in not made in the US

Hahaha..... You just made a little bourbon come out my nose!

schneiderguy
02-20-2012, 11:25 PM
Springfield doesn't make any guns in the US. Their marketing slogan of "The first name in American firearms" is misleading at best... IMO it's a blatant lie since they aren't even connected to the original Springfield Armory.

That being said their 1911s are nice guns. No comment on the XD :willy_nilly:

Dhena81
02-20-2012, 11:31 PM
If the serial # starts with NM its made in the US.

schneiderguy
02-20-2012, 11:32 PM
If the serial # starts with NM its made in the US.

Aren't the frames for those guns still made in Brazil?

AeroEngi
02-20-2012, 11:36 PM
Even the TRP frames and slides are forged in Brazil. As an owner of a TRP, I don't see an issue.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

keenkeen
02-20-2012, 11:39 PM
Aren't the frames for those guns still made in Brazil?

All Springfield 1911s are assembled with components forged in Brazil.

Those made in Brazil have "N" serial numbers and are marked in some way "Brazil" or "Imbel"

Those made in the US have "NM" serial numbers and are marked "Geneseo, Illinois"

QuarterBoreGunner
02-21-2012, 8:59 AM
what next you going to tell me my XD in not made in the US

Croatia? Is that *even* a country anymore?

cwin
02-21-2012, 8:59 AM
You could say the Brazilian made ones are less desirable to a certain few. Not me IMHO. I have a Brazilian along with two US Springfields and can't tell the difference. All three have been 100% for me. Excellent quality either way backed by excellent customer service.

fanof1911forlife
02-21-2012, 9:09 AM
yes the frame and slide are forged in brazil. some pistols are built in brazil and some are sent back to the states for assembly

Not sure how the slide was made but I know for certain that the Brazilian-made SA frames were being cast instead of forged. This manufacturing method reduces the cost of producing the guns. If you closely inspect the frame at a certain angle, you will see some lines that are not straight and will know what I am talking about. As far as material quality, Brazilian steel is just as good as American steel in my opinion.

keenkeen
02-21-2012, 10:07 AM
Not sure how the slide was made but I know for certain that the Brazilian-made SA frames were being cast instead of forged. This manufacturing method reduces the cost of producing the guns. If you closely inspect the frame at a certain angle, you will see some lines that are not straight and will know what I am talking about. As far as material quality, Brazilian steel is just as good as American steel in my opinion.

Pics?

Please share what you are seeing, If this is true I am sure many here would be interested.

fanof1911forlife
02-21-2012, 10:57 AM
Pics?

Please share what you are seeing, If this is true I am sure many here would be interested.

Unfortunately, I sold off my SA GI .45 a long time ago so I cannot provide any pix. However, if you examine the upper part of the dust cover where it mates to the slide, you will see that section is not a straight line. Also, the frame's front strap where it was radiused is also not straight. If the frame were to be CNC'ed instead of cast, anywhere along the dimensions that were supposed to be straight will be straight. Casting melts the plastic molding and cause the frame to be unevenly surfaced.

Capybara
02-21-2012, 11:12 AM
Thanks for the education. No complaints about the gun, it was my first nice gun. I am overall pretty cheap, for Trap/SC, I shoot a Ruger Red Label SC, not a Perazzi or a Silver Pigeon. For my rifles, I shoot a CZ and a Windham, not customs. My other handgun is a Ruger P95DC. All great guns but all on the budget side in their respective categories. My 1911 was my one splurge, an American classic and it was just surprising to find out that it wasn't so American, although it is still definitely still a great gun that I really enjoy shooting.

Dan

redcliff
02-21-2012, 11:16 AM
Unfortunately, I sold off my SA GI .45 a long time ago so I cannot provide any pix. However, if you examine the upper part of the dust cover where it mates to the slide, you will see that section is not a straight line. Also, the frame's front strap where it was radiused is also not straight. If the frame were to be CNC'ed instead of cast, anywhere along the dimensions that were supposed to be straight will be straight. Casting melts the plastic molding and cause the frame to be unevenly surfaced.

Springfield Armory 1911 frames are forged, not cast. While I'm not doubting what you saw on your pistol, it was a result of machining a forging, not a cast frame. Theres a difference between machining a forging and machining a frame from a billet on a CNC machine. Forgings are pressed into the general shape of the finished part under enormous pressure. Take a look at how Colt 1911's are made in this video if you want to see what frame forgings look like : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psOgqSIHPEM

keenkeen
02-21-2012, 11:19 AM
Springfield Armory 1911 frames are forged, not cast. While I'm not doubting what you saw on your pistol, it was a result of machining a forging, not a cast frame. Theres a difference between machining a forging and machining a frame from a billet on a CNC machine. Forgings are pressed into the general shape of the finished part under enormous pressure.

THIS ^^^^^

Thanks redcliff-

HPGunner
02-21-2012, 11:19 AM
^^I was going to comment the same thing that redcliff said. I wouldn't think they are CNC'd because that's seems more costly and wasteful process.

ap3572001
02-21-2012, 11:20 AM
I had a custom gun build on SA 1911 "made in Brazil" The quality of the original gun was GREAT!!!

Very tight , reliable and shot well even before the work was done.

They are doing something right.....

One of the range safety officers just bought a stainless loaded model. I shot it off hand with Federal Classic 230JHP's.

One magaizne went into about a 1 3/4 inch goup, shooting standing at 25 yards!!!

That is good for any pistol.

fanof1911forlife
02-21-2012, 1:47 PM
Springfield Armory 1911 frames are forged, not cast. While I'm not doubting what you saw on your pistol, it was a result of machining a forging, not a cast frame. Theres a difference between machining a forging and machining a frame from a billet on a CNC machine. Forgings are pressed into the general shape of the finished part under enormous pressure. Take a look at how Colt 1911's are made in this video if you want to see what frame forgings look like : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psOgqSIHPEM

OK, let's supposed you're correct...Brazilian-made SA frames are forged, then the quality workmanship must be subpar since their lines are not straight. As far as structural integrity is concerned, I have no doubt that these pistols are more durable comparing to plastic guns.

keenkeen
02-21-2012, 2:15 PM
OK, let's supposed you're correct...Brazilian-made SA frames are forged, then the quality workmanship must be subpar since their lines are not straight. As far as structural integrity is concerned, I have no doubt that these pistols are more durable comparing to plastic guns.

You have said "Brazilian-made SA frames" in a couple of posts. Don't forget ALL Springfield 1911 frames are forged in Brazil. Some are finished and assembled in the US and some are completed in Brazil.

Are you saying the frames finished in Brazil are subpar quality wise or that all SA 1911 frames are subpar or....?

fanof1911forlife
02-21-2012, 2:25 PM
I think I was trying to say that SA frames made in Brazil have a different manufacturing process, either casting or forging, and the quality of these guns are lower than ones made with the CNC process.

drifter001
02-21-2012, 2:42 PM
I have a SA 1911 i get to pick up Saturday :D the serial to mine stars with WW....anyone have ant idea where those are made and approximate year? Thanks

civilsnake
02-21-2012, 3:21 PM
I think I was trying to say that SA frames made in Brazil have a different manufacturing process, either casting or forging, and the quality of these guns are lower than ones made with the CNC process.

ALL SA frames are forged in Brazil. Even the Custom Shop models start as Brazilian forgings. Imbel is a known, reputable, and trusted forge. They've been doing it for a long time and can hang with the best of them.

The overall quality of SA 1911s is, in my opinion, "meh". But that's a result of the building and finishing, not the forging.

keenkeen
02-21-2012, 3:32 PM
I have a SA 1911 i get to pick up Saturday :D the serial to mine stars with WW....anyone have ant idea where those are made and approximate year? Thanks

WW is used on the G.I. model guns SN#...assume Brazil made (should be marked as such).

SA can give you the details on the producion date if you call them with the SN#.

9mmepiphany
02-21-2012, 3:39 PM
OK, let's supposed you're correct...Brazilian-made SA frames are forged, then the quality workmanship must be subpar since their lines are not straight. As far as structural integrity is concerned, I have no doubt that these pistols are more durable comparing to plastic guns.
Two small points.

Springfield Armory has all it's 1911 frames and slides are manufactured in Brazil by IMBEL. IMBEL is a huge arms manufacturer with international certifications. IMBEL only produces frames and slides from forgings...they don't make castings.

Durable - if you mean for use in handguns, the polymer frames have been proven (tested) to outlast steel frames because of their flexing properties...they flex back to their original shape without weakening their structure.

You did know that steel frames flex, right? :p

drifter001
02-21-2012, 6:02 PM
WW is used on the G.I. model guns SN#...assume Brazil made (should be marked as such).

SA can give you the details on the producion date if you call them with the SN#.

cool thank you sir. if i remember correctly, there was no "made in" markings on the side at all...ill give springfield a call and get more details from them though...thank you for the tip

ZX-10R
02-21-2012, 6:28 PM
Ughh, I feel so deceived. I bought the 1911-A1 a few years ago because I always wanted to own a classic 1911. It is a nice gun, I think it is the Loaded model, stainless, nice wooden grips, drilled trigger, hammer, etc. I was cleaning it for the first time in ages the other night and flipped it over and saw the "Brazil" mark stamped on the body. It's so weird that I bought this gun 12 years ago, have shot it a lot and cleaned it a lot and never noticed this before, minus points for my powers of observation.

So are Brazilan born Springfields considered less desirable, lower quality than American made 1911s? I know enough about cars and electronics that it largely doesn't matter any more, a good chunk of my expensive Nikon lenses were made in Thailand or China, not Japan and I know that most Hondas and Toyotas are made here in the U.S., not in Japan, but this revelation left me a bit miffed, I had no idea my "American Classic" had been cast in Brazil. Please tell me that Springfield didn't contract with Taurus.

Thanks,

Dan


I was in the market for a 1911...Checked out SA...Once I saw made in Brazil, I laughed at all the CGN people and bought a made in USA Colt.

Guess who the winner was...

Sorry to hear that. Sell it. You can get a Colt or Kimber.

QuarterBoreGunner
02-21-2012, 6:33 PM
I was in the market for a 1911...Checked out SA...Once I saw made in Brazil, I laughed at all the CGN people and bought a made in USA Colt.

Guess who the winner was...

Sorry to hear that. Sell it. You can get a Colt or Kimber.

Obvious Troll is... oh heck.

keenkeen
02-21-2012, 6:39 PM
cool thank you sir. if i remember correctly, there was no "made in" markings on the side at all...ill give springfield a call and get more details from them though...thank you for the tip

Check under the grips...those Brazilians can be quite tricky!

:)

fanof1911forlife
02-22-2012, 10:50 AM
Two small points.

Springfield Armory has all it's 1911 frames and slides are manufactured in Brazil by IMBEL. IMBEL is a huge arms manufacturer with international certifications. IMBEL only produces frames and slides from forgings...they don't make castings.

Durable - if you mean for use in handguns, the polymer frames have been proven (tested) to outlast steel frames because of their flexing properties...they flex back to their original shape without weakening their structure.

You did know that steel frames flex, right? :p


To cause a 5-inch slab of steel to noticeably flex will require a tremendous amount of force, don't you agree?

9mmepiphany
02-22-2012, 11:29 AM
I do, but have you taken a look at slow-mo videos of pistols during their firing cycle?

They don't flex and much as their polymer counterparts, but they do flex...that is why steel frames crack

Sturnovik
02-22-2012, 11:32 AM
I have had no problem with USA or Brazilian assembled 1911's that I own. Springfield has had their frames made in Brazil for many years. They use forged frames of very high quality and their customer service is reported to be excellent. I wouldn't be concerned.

Shoot it and enjoy it.

Yup thats what I keep hearing. I'm leaning toward a XD next but god there 1911's are nice as hell.

Capybara
02-22-2012, 11:35 AM
It's my first and only 1911 so I don't have a vast body of 1911 experience to draw upon but it shoots great, has been rock solid, etc.

Dan

Sturnovik
02-22-2012, 11:39 AM
It's my first and only 1911 so I don't have a vast body of 1911 experience to draw upon but it shoots great, has been rock solid, etc.

Dan

That counts for something. If it goes boom every time its supposed to and hopefully feeds HP's without issues, you have yourself a fine piece.

whipkiller
02-22-2012, 12:02 PM
It's my first and only 1911 so I don't have a vast body of 1911 experience to draw upon but it shoots great, has been rock solid, etc.

Dan

'Nuff said...

I also have an SA Loaded 1911, and while I would have preferred one with a serial # starting with "NM", it's not a deal-breaker for me. I think it's the best bang for the buck 1911 at that price point.

InGrAM
02-22-2012, 12:20 PM
Sell it and buy a Sig GSR ;)

TBH, I do not like central or south American companies and I do not like giving them my business. But, they make some fine products in the firearms field. Bersa, FM, SA, Taurus etc... If your 1911 is solid and reliable that is all that matters.

Quickdraw Mcgraw
02-22-2012, 12:30 PM
Sell it and buy a Sig GSR ;)

TBH, I do not like central or south American companies and I do not like giving them my business. But, they make some fine products in the firearms field. Bersa, FM, SA, Taurus etc... If your 1911 is solid and reliable that is all that matters.

I feel the same! Anyone know if there m1a's are alspo made in Brazil??

Lead Waster
02-22-2012, 1:20 PM
You've had it for 12 years. Does it suddenly stop shooting well because you found out it was made in Brazil? If it does, that's more you to blame than Brazillian quality control.

Also, there are many nice things made in Brail. Allisandra Ambrosio comes to mind. Often.

GeneralPattonLivesAgain
02-22-2012, 1:56 PM
Perhaps I got a dud, buy my Springfield Armory 1911 Loaded, made in Brazil, has numerous misfeads. At first, I thought perhaps it was the crappy magazines that come with the gun, but after getting misfeeds with Wilson 47D's and Chip McCormick's Super 8 Mags, I sent it back to Springfield after having the gun less than 2 weeks. I called customer service and they had a 2-day fed-ex packing slip e-mailed to me within minutes; however the gun has been there 2 weeks and I still don't have an update or estimated time on when I will get the gun back. This is my first Springfield Armory purchase and my first 1911, and so far, I am not impressed. The ammo that I was using was brass, 230 grain FMJ (Magtech and Aguila). I can only imagine what it would have done if I tried feeding it hollow points. I have a CZ 75B, and it's been flawless - 1,000 rounds so far, which includes both FMJ and JHP - this is the gun that I measure all others against, from a reliability standpoint, and so far, the Springfield Armory 1911 Loaded has failed; the customer service which started out well, is not impressing me either. Perhaps they are experiencing more and more failed guns. I purchased a Sig Sauer P220, which I pick un next Monday (this 10 day wait, 30-day in between handgun purchases is a joke, especially to someone who is just getting into this wonderful hobby and wants to buy multiple guns in different calibers fairly quickly) and I hope to have much better success with it. I really like the way the 1911 shoots (when it isn't misfeeding), and I do want to own a reliable one, so hopefully S.A. can fix it and get it back to me soon. Waiting 30 days since the purchase of my CZ 75B, then another 10, having it for less than 2 weeks, and then sending it off to S.A., who has had it for two weeks....what an absoulte joke.

HPGunner
02-22-2012, 2:00 PM
Sell it and buy a Sig GSR ;)

TBH, I do not like central or south American companies and I do not like giving them my business. But, they make some fine products in the firearms field. Bersa, FM, SA, Taurus etc... If your 1911 is solid and reliable that is all that matters.

That external extractor on the Sig 1911 doesn't annoy you? Not to mention the squarish shape of the slide It's kind of like that Glock 1911 picture that's been floating around. Total sacrilege!

9mmepiphany
02-22-2012, 2:23 PM
I feel the same! Anyone know if there m1a's are alspo made in Brazil??
I thought they were from Portugal...it has been a while since I checked, that might just have been their SAR-8

redcliff
02-22-2012, 3:38 PM
I thought they were from Portugal...it has been a while since I checked, that might just have been their SAR-8

I've heard early m1a receivers were cast in U.S. and late model ones in Canada.. who knows. Btw, the early SAR-8's were made in Greece and are great rifles built on HK tooling by HK trained personnel :)

Freq18Hz
02-22-2012, 3:40 PM
Croatia? Is that *even* a country anymore?

ROFL




To the OP: All springfield frames (and most slides) are forged by Imbel in Brazil. Many get assembled there, some come to the US for assembly.


20 years ago, the NM serial guns were of higher quality, because they contained no MIM parts, and were hand fit in the USA during assembly.

Newer springfields have MIM parts, and are hit or miss fit-wise (so were some of the older ones).

If you have a forged, older, non MIM, well fit gun, it is desirable even if made in Brazil. Albeit the monetary value is higher for a MADE IN USA gun.

Here's a few pics of my hand fit 1992 M1911-A1 match NM, for your reference.

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq184/freq18hz/1911.jpg
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq184/freq18hz/1911_2-1.jpg
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq184/freq18hz/09517739.jpg
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq184/freq18hz/118b37ce.jpg
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq184/freq18hz/1dec0c54.jpg

-Freq

rumblebee
02-22-2012, 5:05 PM
Now there's a frame I wouldn't mind "flexing" :p:eek::cheers2:

You've had it for 12 years. Does it suddenly stop shooting well because you found out it was made in Brazil? If it does, that's more you to blame than Brazillian quality control.

Also, there are many nice things made in Brail. Allisandra Ambrosio comes to mind. Often.

fivefeezy
02-22-2012, 6:02 PM
Whether its a good pistol or not I prefer made in the United States - especially with a classic like the 1911. I always root for home team manufacturing, when possible.

Capybara
02-22-2012, 6:39 PM
Just out of curiosity, where are the Colt 1911s made?

InGrAM
02-22-2012, 8:36 PM
That external extractor on the Sig 1911 doesn't annoy you? Not to mention the squarish shape of the slide It's kind of like that Glock 1911 picture that's been floating around. Total sacrilege!

No, it is the most reliable 1911 I have owned. NTM, the most accurate by a significant majority compared to my others. I am not willing to pay more than a $1000 on a pistol, so, the higher end 1911's are out of my price range (not that I wouldn't love owning one). The GSR had all of the same features as the higher end 1911's for a third the price. It made sense to me to buy one when I did.

Plus, S&W, Sig, and Kimber all use/used external extractors. Sig and S&W seem to have mastered the practice of using the external extractor on the 1911 platform.

schneiderguy
02-22-2012, 8:52 PM
Just out of curiosity, where are the Colt 1911s made?

USA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psOgqSIHPEM

9mmepiphany
02-22-2012, 10:01 PM
It's kind of like that Glock 1911 picture that's been floating around. Total sacrilege!

You mean this:

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t201/IkenI_photo/glock-1911-640x480.jpg

1911Luvr
02-22-2012, 11:23 PM
I was in the market for a 1911...Checked out SA...Once I saw made in Brazil, I laughed at all the CGN people and bought a made in USA Colt.

Guess who the winner was...

Sorry to hear that. Sell it. You can get a Colt or Kimber.

It's funny to read this stuff since Colt has been putting out overpriced, poorly built crap for years now. My Railgun was the biggest POS out of the box and even after fixing all the main issues I'm still left with a front strap that is too thin for conventional checkering. Many of Colt's newer frames are so thin on the front strap that they require material to be added in order to have them checkered. My Series 70 is closer to the quality of my Springers, but not as reliable as either of them were out of the box.

Both my Springers are full custom builds now so the comparison ends there...