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View Full Version : Overpressure problems with 230g. HST .45acp +p


sammy
02-18-2012, 5:30 PM
Quick question,

I got some 230g. Federal HST +p for my Les Baer TRS that looks like it is dangerously hot. The range was crowded and there were cases all over the place so finding mine was a bit difficult. I have never felt recoil this stout in a .45acp. Before testing I replaced the recoil spring with a new 18.5lb unit from Wolf Gun Springs. After firing 5 rounds I managed to find 2 cases and here they are. The primer is clearly coming out of the case and very flat. What do you all think? Seems very odd for factory HD ammo.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x183/carcrazysammy/ammo.jpg

hyperion.excal
02-18-2012, 5:37 PM
if you plan on using this round for HD i think its time to move up your spring.

ojisan
02-18-2012, 6:19 PM
That's smokin' hot.
Be sure that 18.5 spring is really an 18.5.
I agree a stiffer spring may help but if this was one of my handloads I would be looking at what I did wrong at the reloading bench.

I've flattened a few 10mm primers with hot loads but popping primers out of a new case is not good...a primer could come out and jam the gun when you needed the gun most.

buffybuster
02-18-2012, 6:25 PM
Quick question,

I got some 230g. Federal HST +p for my Les Baer TRS that looks like it is dangerously hot. The range was crowded and there were cases all over the place so finding mine was a bit difficult. I have never felt recoil this stout in a .45acp. Before testing I replaced the recoil spring with a new 18.5lb unit from Wolf Gun Springs. After firing 5 rounds I managed to find 2 cases and here they are. The primer is clearly coming out of the case and very flat. What do you all think? Seems very odd for factory HD ammo.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x183/carcrazysammy/ammo.jpg

Primers backing out like that with a 45ACP has nothing to do with over pressure. It's a result of excessive headspace either from a long chamber, short cases, lug setback or not 100% in battery (which in a new Les Baer is a possibility). Also there's a FP swipe on the primer, do you have a titanium FP or extra power FP spring?

sammy
02-18-2012, 6:26 PM
That's smokin' hot.
Be sure that 18.5 spring is really an 18.5.
I agree a stiffer spring may help but if this was one of my handloads I would be looking at what I did wrong at the reloading bench.

I've flattened a few 10mm primers with hot loads but popping primers out of a new case is not good...a primer could come out and jam the gun when you needed the gun most.

The spring was taken out of an unopened package and I double checked it. It is an 18.5lb spring.

Just sent federal and e-mail and a link to this thread. Will see what they say.

sammy
02-18-2012, 6:44 PM
Primers backing out like that with a 45ACP has nothing to do with over pressure. It's a result of excessive headspace either from a long chamber, short cases, lug setback or not 100% in battery (which in a new Les Baer is a possibility). Also there's a FP swipe on the primer, do you have a titanium FP or extra power FP spring?

The gun has 17,000 rounds through it. The titanium firing pin was replaced with a Wilson Combat carbon steel unit about 4000 rounds ago because the factory one was bent. How that happened I have no idea.

This gun has seen very few factory rounds. 95% of what is shot is 5.8g. of Universal Clays with a 200g. LSWC. This load gets about 950fps and I have never seen a primer back out like that. My handload primers are on the flat side but never seen one back out.

I did not think about headspace. If the brass was short I assume it might back the primer out.

The HST case measures: .890

Random cases in the bag measure .895- .897

Gryff
02-18-2012, 6:58 PM
I run this ammo in my XD45 for home defense. In truth, I don't care for the recoil impulse relative to just about any other .45acp ammo, but it seems damn near impossible to find the non +P .45 HST anywhere.

sammy
02-18-2012, 7:20 PM
I run this ammo in my XD45 for home defense. In truth, I don't care for the recoil impulse relative to just about any other .45acp ammo, but it seems damn near impossible to find the non +P .45 HST anywhere.

So do you think it is safe to run? Do you have primers that back out and what platform are you using?

Gryff
02-18-2012, 8:02 PM
So do you think it is safe to run? Do you have primers that back out and what platform are you using?

I run an XD45 Tactical (5"). The ammo makes it feel as snappy as my M&P40c (LTC gun).

If I had to guess, I would say it is safe since Federal has a great reputation and HST is their "Law Enforcement" ammo.

I just figure that I won't run a steady diet of it through my gun. I put 200 rounds through the gun initially to make sure that there were no hiccups, so now I only shoot it once a year or so to make sure the gun hasn't changed its mind. Given that the XD is a polymer-framed gun, I'm not sure that a lot of +P .45 through it is the smartest idea.

Dhena81
02-18-2012, 9:07 PM
A buddy of mine bought 1K of HST +P+ in 9mm I wonder if hes going to have problems.

ap3572001
02-19-2012, 12:52 PM
HST goes about 950FPS from a service size pistol. Thats with 230JHP bullet!!!

IT IS TOO HOT FOR A STEADY DIET!!!

John Browning
02-19-2012, 2:41 PM
I had nothing but problems with HST in my Nighthawk Talon. I sold it off and no longer use it.

kielbasavw
02-19-2012, 2:46 PM
should have bought an HK

sammy
02-19-2012, 4:15 PM
should have bought an HK

I did and sold it. Comparing an HK to a Baer is like a BMW vs a Yugo.


The problem is with the ammo. They gun runs perfect, even with the high round count.

Dhena81
02-19-2012, 4:33 PM
I did and sold it. Comparing an HK to a Baer is like a BMW vs a Yugo.


The problem is with the ammo. They gun runs perfect, even with the high round count.

That's funny I don't think the gap is that far but your right for the most part. Most of kielbasavw posts I've seen are his attempts at being funny but come off as being a troll. Have you looked at Car-Bon with the DPX or Speer Gold dots they always function great in my 1911's.

sammy
02-19-2012, 4:56 PM
That's funny I don't think the gap is that far but your right for the most part. Most of kielbasavw posts I've seen are his attempts at being funny but come off as being a troll. Have you looked at Car-Bon with the DPX or Speer Gold dots they always function great in my 1911's.

You are right. All the HK's I have owned not one has ever had a failure of any kind. They are not well balanced and all I have tried have horrible triggers. The Baer is a hand built funcitonal piece of art. Just not my cup of tea.

kielbasavw
02-19-2012, 5:36 PM
you gotta pay the troll toll, if you want to get into that boys hole... or is it soul?

Sam
02-19-2012, 5:50 PM
I shot HST +P when I had my Wilson. Didn't care for the stronger recoil over the standard pressure round. I never had any problems with the standard HST in my Wilson and its on Doc's list, which is good enough for me.

pyromensch
02-19-2012, 8:11 PM
if you plan on using this round for HD i think its time to move up your spring.

That's smokin' hot.
Be sure that 18.5 spring is really an 18.5.
I agree a stiffer spring may help but if this was one of my handloads I would be looking at what I did wrong at the reloading bench.

I've flattened a few 10mm primers with hot loads but popping primers out of a new case is not good...a primer could come out and jam the gun when you needed the gun most.

concur with buffybuster's post above. the spring strength has nothing to do with, primer's backing out, frame or slide damage, maybe, 45 acp is "normally" not a "blowback" firearm.

2nd Shot
02-19-2012, 9:01 PM
As a hand loader I'd be concerned if I saw that. I don't have the experience or round count as some of the verteran hand loaders on here, and I don't have any .45's, but with a 200gn 10mm bullet with 1 grain over book max (no, don't do this at home), primers were still fine, and by fine I mean rounded cornered and indistinguishable from factory ammo. Case head expansion below max seen with factory ammo as well. This is also in a box stock Glock with loose chamber and all. Mind you I'm probably using the same Federal primers, but with supposedly 10,000 PSI higher pressure with no ill effect.

Something could possssssibly be wrong with the timing of your gun, but I'm not sure what would account for the primers coming out like that other than pressure. If you feel safe doing so, can you shoot a couple over a chrono to see what they're clocking? Really makes you wonder!

buffybuster
02-20-2012, 5:47 PM
To the OP:

There's little to no danger of a blowup with this ammo (unless it was manufactured incorrectly) or there's an 'out of battery' firing. However the action timing might be affected.

The 45ACP maximum pressure (SAMMI) is only 21Kpsi. 45ACP +P spec is 23Kpsi. Since your ammo is marked "+P", the max avg pressure is <23Kpsi. "+P+" marked ammo, there is no spec, so all bets are off.

9x19mm, 10mmAuto, 40S&W, .357Sig have much higher max pressures of 35Kpsi, 37.5Kpsi and 40Kpsi. 9x19mm "+P", "+P+" and CIP spec ammo can run beyond 42Kpsi.

deadhawg
02-20-2012, 6:00 PM
federal had a recall on some of their .45 acp ammo. check out their website for more info.

bruce381
02-21-2012, 12:16 AM
thats just hot ammo not for 100% all the time shooting. just keep for zombies LOL