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View Full Version : English class subtly sneaking anti gun rhetoric.


The Soup Nazi
04-01-2007, 2:27 PM
So over the weekend, I had ot read some documents on rhetorical devices and logical fallacies in preparation for the English AP test, and what do I see....

"Begging the question: The writer presents as truth what is not yet proven by the argument. “Teachers on our campus who are using their classroom solely for preaching their political ideas should be banned” begs the question (that is, tries like a beggar to get something for nothing from the reader) because the writer gives no evidence for what must first be argued, not merely asserted—that there are in fact teachers on that particular campus using class time solely for spreading their political beliefs."

Then I read all the way to the bottom:
"Quick fix: The writer leans too heavily on catchy phrases or empty slogans. A clever turn-of-phrase may grab one's attention, but it may lose its persuasiveness when scrutinized closely. For instance, a banner at a recent rally to protest a piece of anti-gun legislation read, "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns." Although the sentence had nice balance, it oversimplified the issue. The legislation in question was not trying to outlaw an guns, just the sale of the infamous Saturday Night Specials, most often used in crimes and domestic violence; the sale of guns for sport, such as hunting rifles, would remain legal. Other slogans sound good but are simply irrelevant: a particular soft drink, for example, may be "the real thing," but what drink isn't? Look closely at clever lines substituted for reasoned argument; always demand clear terms and logical explanations and provide the same in your own writing. "

Right off the bat I can say he fails to address the fact that "Saturday Night Specials" is intself use of scare tactics. I'm going to have a long conversation with my teacher about this....

M. Sage
04-01-2007, 2:29 PM
Wow. What book did that come from, anyway?

Mssr. Eleganté
04-01-2007, 2:42 PM
"Begging the question: The writer presents as truth what is not yet proven by the argument..."

The legislation in question was not trying to outlaw an guns, just the sale of the infamous Saturday Night Specials, most often used in crimes and domestic violence; the sale of guns for sport... would remain legal.

"Quick fix: The writer leans too heavily on catchy phrases or empty slogans. A clever turn-of-phrase may grab one's attention, but it may lose its persuasiveness when scrutinized closely...

Saturday Night Specials

It's pretty funny that in an explanation of how not to "beg the question" or use a "quick fix" the author accidentally "begs the question" and uses a "quick fix".

Charliegone
04-01-2007, 2:48 PM
"Begging the question: The writer presents as truth what is not yet proven by the argument..."

The legislation in question was not trying to outlaw an guns, just the sale of the infamous Saturday Night Specials, most often used in crimes and domestic violence; the sale of guns for sport... would remain legal.

"Quick fix: The writer leans too heavily on catchy phrases or empty slogans. A clever turn-of-phrase may grab one's attention, but it may lose its persuasiveness when scrutinized closely...

Saturday Night Specials

It's pretty funny that in an explanation of how not to "beg the question" or use a "quick fix" the author accidentally "begs the question" and uses a "quick fix".

unbelievable...do they EVEN know what they are talking about?:rolleyes: :mad:

Dr. Peter Venkman
04-01-2007, 3:31 PM
Type in logical fallacies on google and it will give you a hit for a website that lists all of them. The Nizkor project or something like that.

otalps
04-01-2007, 4:06 PM
[b]
It's pretty funny that in an explanation of how not to "beg the question" or use a "quick fix" the author accidentally "begs the question" and uses a "quick fix".

I don't think it was an accident. I think the author of the passage was just completely oblivious to what he was writing. He has already convinced himself of what a "Saturday Night Special" is and can't even see the irony in his statement.

Technical Ted
04-01-2007, 4:12 PM
Quick! Drop out of school now before it ruins your future!

mike100
04-01-2007, 4:16 PM
college is for learning to think for yourself. You'll see profs spouting off their politics. make sure your grade is assured before you you do anything rash.

jdberger
04-01-2007, 4:21 PM
What? You thought that College was supposed to teach you the TRUTH?

It doesn't. And it's not supposed to. It is supposed to teach you how to reason and think for yourself (unless you are in a math or engineering class - then pay attention).

Unfortunately, most of the professors have forgotten that. And so have the students.

(hint: if what they are teaching is TRUTH, why is so much of it called THEORY?)

damon1272
04-01-2007, 4:27 PM
That is the same type of garbage that I used to face in school. My grades suffered because I would argue the points rather than blindly accepting propaganda. Do your self a favor. I dropped out and enrolled in University of Phoenix online. Enroll in a more professional setting at any school of your choosing. No garbage just the information you want to learn about.

dfletcher
04-01-2007, 4:36 PM
Actually I believe the term "Saturday Night Specials" is only part of the original phrase of "Ni--ertown Saturday Night Specials" which originally referenced shootings in the less than ideal parts of town. Maybe the nice liberal teacher would not be so enthusiastic about using that phrase if he knows from where it comes?

tankerman
04-01-2007, 5:01 PM
Cheap guns (Saturday night specials), made for folks (poor) that can't afford anything else. Ask your knucklehead instructor if poor people have the Right to Bear Arms for self defense, or is that just for people with disposable income. It is obvious that the person that wrote the question also thought they already had the answer, he/she should skip the English class and try critical thinking.

Technical Ted
04-01-2007, 5:20 PM
The whole point of SB15 was that it supposedly would remove cheaply made, "unsafe", low cost handguns from reaching circulation.

That was the sugar coat over the bitter core of gun control.

Wulf
04-01-2007, 5:38 PM
Yes, make sure that when you discuss this with your teacher you mention that SNS is generally considered to be a term with overt racist origins, inherit dismissal of the right of self protection for the poor, and a pejorative with little factual basis behind it.

Crazed_SS
04-01-2007, 6:19 PM
So over the weekend, I had ot read some documents on rhetorical devices and logical fallacies in preparation for the English AP test, and what do I see....

"Begging the question: The writer presents as truth what is not yet proven by the argument. “Teachers on our campus who are using their classroom solely for preaching their political ideas should be banned” begs the question (that is, tries like a beggar to get something for nothing from the reader) because the writer gives no evidence for what must first be argued, not merely asserted—that there are in fact teachers on that particular campus using class time solely for spreading their political beliefs."

Then I read all the way to the bottom:
"Quick fix: The writer leans too heavily on catchy phrases or empty slogans. A clever turn-of-phrase may grab one's attention, but it may lose its persuasiveness when scrutinized closely. For instance, a banner at a recent rally to protest a piece of anti-gun legislation read, "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns." Although the sentence had nice balance, it oversimplified the issue. The legislation in question was not trying to outlaw an guns, just the sale of the infamous Saturday Night Specials, most often used in crimes and domestic violence; the sale of guns for sport, such as hunting rifles, would remain legal. Other slogans sound good but are simply irrelevant: a particular soft drink, for example, may be "the real thing," but what drink isn't? Look closely at clever lines substituted for reasoned argument; always demand clear terms and logical explanations and provide the same in your own writing. "

Right off the bat I can say he fails to address the fact that "Saturday Night Specials" is intself use of scare tactics. I'm going to have a long conversation with my teacher about this....

Are you taking a Logic and Critical Thinking class?

I had one of those classes last semester and It was one of the best classes I've ever taken. Such a class really helps when arguing a subject like gun control. You start seeing holes in arguments left and right.. even your own arguments.

Reading gun boards actually irks me these days because I see so much broken logic in many gun arguments. Catch phrases and slogans like "When guns are outlawed..." do oversimplify issues.

You're right though.. the author of the book probably doesnt realize, but terms like "Saturday Night Special" and "Assault Weapon" are rhetorical definitions.

EDIT: Which book are you using? I think I remember that passage. If it's the book I'm thinking, it does have a left of center slant. Most of the examples it uses to show poor logic come from Rush Limbaugh, Micheal Savage, etc. While they are valid examples, they could have switched it up and thrown in some Michael Moore quotes.

The Soup Nazi
04-01-2007, 6:28 PM
Are you taking a Logic and Critical Thinking class?

I had one of those classes last semester and It was one of the best classes I've ever taken. Such a class really helps when arguing a subject like gun control. You start seeing holes in arguments left and right.. even your own arguments.

Reading gun boards actually irks me these days because I see so much broken logic in many gun arguments. Catch phrases and slogans like "When guns are outlawed..." do oversimplify issues.

You're right though.. the author of the book probably doesnt realize, but terms like "Saturday Night Special" and "Assault Weapon" are rhetorical definitions.

EDIT: Which book are you using? I think I remember that passage. If it's the book I'm thinking, it does have a left of center slant. Most of the examples it uses to show poor logic come from Rush Limbaugh, Micheal Savage, etc. While they are valid examples, they could have switched it up and thrown in some Michael Moore quotes.


I'm taking a English Language AP class right now. And I'm not sure if this is from a book, its just put into a Word file which I downloaded from a school network and read.

luvtolean
04-02-2007, 6:23 AM
Quick! Drop out of school now before it ruins your future!

LOL, exactly!

Don't let them brainwash you, fight the indoctrination system! :eek: :rolleyes:

JPN6336
04-02-2007, 6:25 AM
I'm in college right now as well and have noticed a similar anti-gun bias in certain texts and classrooms. It shouldn't be that much of a shock though. Many educators aren't thinking for themselves even if they teach thinking for oneself. Many of them are immersed in a land of referential citations and "proper" sources to the point where they won't believe anything unless its from what they consider an expert. The unfortunate part is that on many subjects they consider news and other media sources as valid sources and we all know about the liberal media's agenda. I simply deal with it by doing pro-gun research papers using all valid sources.