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View Full Version : Are Sig Sauers overpriced and/or overrated?


mr00jimbo
02-18-2012, 12:17 PM
Before you rip me a new one, I'd like to say that I own two Sig Sauers. They're beautiful guns. I've shot all sorts of guns and while I do like shooting the Sigs, they seem to excite others on the firing line more than they excite me.

I'll tell you what I like about my Sigs:
-Good looks
-Feel well balanced
-Great triggers (my German made one has a nicer trigger than the US one)
-Great reliability (only problems I've had was 1 failure to go into battery and slide not locking back due to thumb on slide release. This is in thousands of rounds.)

What I don't like about Sig (and this is mostly hearsay)
-Expensive!!
-Aluminum frame guns and older German models not recommended to shoot "hot" ammunition through them
-Reputation for subpar customer service
-Allegations that their quality control sucks
-Straying from making quality guns and into rainbow, flavor of the month BS models
-Switching from 2 mags to 1, then switching back to two inferior Checkmate mags (thankfully mine has the Mecgar ones, and my old German Sig just has the Sig made ones I believe.)

I don't think I'll ever wear out either of my Sigs. Nor will I sell them, unless I'm very hard up for cash. But I can't seem to recommend them to somebody who wants a good value for a pistol. I look at the CZ 75; it's a tank of a handgun. All steel, great ergonomics, accuracy (I don't own one but I've shot them) and a lot easier on the pocketbook.
Then you go to the polymer world; XD, M&P, Glock, H&K...

No body is going to wear out a quality gun here, but let's just say for argument's sake that aluminum alloy framed guns are going to give up the ghost faster than polymer or quality steel frames. So besides "X special ops group uses them", which is a BS argument IMO, what do Sigs have going for them that makes them command a premium?

Don't get me wrong, I said I like mine, but I don't loooove them. I bought both pre-owned for a great price and they seem to be excellent guns for what they do. But I can say that about many different guns, too.

I'm not a competition shooter. Hell, I'm not even a good shot. :oji::43:
But I want to know what Sigs have going for them that commands such a premium over similar guns?

billped
02-18-2012, 12:32 PM
For me, the answer is "no" to both, but subjective questions will only get you subjective answers. What do you think you'll get out of this?


Bill

RP1911
02-18-2012, 12:37 PM
You are paying for:

1) the name associated with Swiss/German engineering

2) the $'s value against the Euro.

3) the shops got wiser and stopped cutthroat sales

4) the demand is still there

and a few more other things.

beretta929mm
02-18-2012, 12:42 PM
What you pay for is a European brand name plus high worksmanship. Why drive a BMW when a Toyota is half the price?

mr00jimbo
02-18-2012, 12:43 PM
For me, the answer is "no" to both, but subjective questions will only get you subjective answers. What do you think you'll get out of this?


Bill

A lot of people argue to prove that they're right. I'm arguing because I want somebody to come along and inform me that I am overlooking something. Maybe they use a higher grade of steel. Maybe they pay their employees better, all things I would accept.

G60
02-18-2012, 12:45 PM
Perhaps not, if they had not let CQ slip under Ron Cohen's watch.

X231
02-18-2012, 12:59 PM
I own two. One is older and I traded for it, the other I got a smoking deal on a new one. Would I pay the going price for another new one? No.

IVC
02-18-2012, 1:17 PM
A lot of people argue to prove that they're right. I'm arguing because I want somebody to come along and inform me that I am overlooking something. Maybe they use a higher grade of steel. Maybe they pay their employees better, all things I would accept.

You are looking at "constructive value" vs. "market value". No matter what you put in, if people pay for it, by definition it's worth the price. Just because you wouldn't pay for it, doesn't lessen the value. In this case, you actually did pay, so that's your answer.

So, yes, you are overlooking the basic concept of the free market.

RT13
02-18-2012, 1:45 PM
My only answer is:

Not as much as Hk!:)

paul0660
02-18-2012, 1:52 PM
I think Sigs are fine. I have tried to convince myself that they are elite and worth the pricetag, and so far have failed.

gorenut
02-18-2012, 2:05 PM
What you pay for is a European brand name plus high worksmanship. Why drive a BMW when a Toyota is half the price?

I think the problem with this argument is that there are other guns out there that give you just as fine quality and handling for the price of Sigs or much less. When comparing BMW to something like a Toyota Camry or Corolla.. there are noticeable performance enhancements, luxury features, etc on a BMW that clearly shows where your money is going towards. With a Sig, a lot of it is with the name since their QC isn't nearly as stringent as they used to be and there are MIM parts now. Mind you, I am not someone who is against MIM at all if done correctly, nor do I necessarily think Sigs QC is horrible.. its just that the price of Sigs don't reflect the savings they've made with the random cuts to the consumer. I do think that they need to stop with all the nonsense models of their guns and focus on the serious market.

They're great guns and I've owned 4 in the past, but I've since found other guns that I consider for myself, money better spent.

Packy14
02-18-2012, 2:10 PM
It depends, the new ones are not as good as the old ones, and the Checkmate mags are trash... but fortunately you can still get mecgar's aftermarket... they made sig mags for many many years and are very good. I shoot my sigs better than any other gun, but there are alot of good guns out there. I'm getting into glocks now, but they are what they are.

SIGSHOOTR
02-18-2012, 2:17 PM
FWIW, I will never give up my P226 Navy. It's never failed me-- and I've shot every type of ammo through it under some pretty austere conditions. Just got it back from SIG after 5k round service and I got the SRT installed. Perfection-- oh yeah, that's another company's motto :chris: (btw, my backup is a Glock 19-- another gun I will never give up).

jeffrice6
02-18-2012, 2:34 PM
Overpriced but not overrated.....

WWDHD?
02-18-2012, 2:47 PM
I think they are overpriced but not overrated. I'm talking about the classic metal framed guns and not the polymers which the jury is still out on (never shot one and have not read much good about them).
Strangely enough Sigs 1911 pistols seem to be priced quite fairly compaired to other mid to upper mid-level pistols like SA, S&W, Kimber.....

PandaLuv
02-18-2012, 2:51 PM
Overpriced but not overrated.....

This.

Sonic_mike
02-18-2012, 2:54 PM
They can't make a 40 cal polymer that works with a light.

134k
02-18-2012, 2:56 PM
The irony. I am a rookie that bought his first handgun today. I bought a p226r and have it in jail til the 28th. After months of doing my homework and visiting local stores, a sig 226 was what I settled on. I only shot a colt, a sig and a Beretta while I was in the navy, and I always remembered the sig feeling the most comfortable in my hands.

InGrAM
02-18-2012, 2:59 PM
What you pay for is a European brand name plus high worksmanship. Why drive a BMW when a Toyota is half the price?

This ^. It is all about personal preference.

paul0660
02-18-2012, 3:00 PM
I only shot a colt, a sig and a Beretta while I was in the navy, and I always remembered the sig feeling the most comfortable in my hands.

I am sure you will like your Sig, but your experience is limited.

Joe Register
02-18-2012, 3:04 PM
Sounds like the Beretta/Benelli issue for handguns. Are they good - yes. Would I pay that much? No. Do they make a lot of flavor of the month now? Yep.

fanof1911forlife
02-18-2012, 3:12 PM
Lives are expensive. Loss of lives are costlier. If you put this in context, you will realize that the high cost of a quality Sig is insignificant comparing to the value of a human life.

paul0660
02-18-2012, 3:16 PM
Lives are expensive. Loss of lives are costlier. If you put this in context, you will realize that the high cost of a quality Sig is insignificant comparing to the value of a human life.

What does that have to do with the price of tea? I can think of more expensive guns that supposedly jam, and less expensive guns that don't, as well as finding lots of examples of Sigs failing. They haven't closed up their CS, because it is still needed.

hyperion.excal
02-18-2012, 3:42 PM
So far i never had any issues with my P226 the only thing bad was the checkmate mags but sig took care of me. My p229 has been flawless since day one never had any problems with 1000 rounds fired i have never had a single FTF/FTE. Honestly almost all the sig problems are magazine related. (Easily fixed with mecgars)

Sig quality dropped under the new QC person (who screwed up kimber aswell) but its still one of the finest gun manufacturer in the world. Reliability, durability and accuracy is up there for FWIW. Even if you dont get one that works the first time the CS will take care of you at 0 charge, they will make it right and will make you happy. High level customer service with lifetime warranty.

To hell and back reliability.

kielbasavw
02-18-2012, 3:55 PM
IT'S NOT AN HK!

The Virus
02-18-2012, 4:02 PM
Yes

The Virus
02-18-2012, 4:03 PM
What does that have to do with the price of tea? I can think of more expensive guns that supposedly jam, and less expensive guns that don't, as well as finding lots of examples of Sigs failing. They haven't closed up their CS, because it is still needed.

There are cheaper / more reliable guns.......

Striker
02-18-2012, 4:04 PM
Much of what you see on the internet comes from those who owned Sig pistols ten or more years ago. They/we see a quality difference. You really don't have to go further than the new mags to see that Sig is sourcing parts from the least expensive vendor. Old Sig, would never have done this; but, in order to keep a competitive price, they really don't have much choice. The question is more would you pay twice as muchto own a new Sig that's the quality of the old ones? Based on the fact that the general public thinks HK is over priced, the answer is probably no. But to get better parts, more attention to detail and better QC, you have to pay more. There isn't anyway around it. Also, understand that P226s sold for around $650.00 to $700.00 back fifteen years ago. Some still sell them for around that price. Something had to give somewhere.

In answer to your questions. Most of the newer Sig classic series pistols still work pretty well. I've run three different ones and only the one that Gray Guns had tricked was smoother or even close to the late 90s one I own. Are they overpriced? That's up to the person buying. I think every service handgun needs some type of work, at least for me they do. So they all seem to end up costing me $800.00-$1000.00. As long as I get what I want and it doesn't fail one me, that's fine,

Solid Foundation
02-18-2012, 4:04 PM
I just wish they'd make the finish a little more durable.
I had a 226 and it was great but the holster wear (leather holster) on that thing was just terrible!

Moto4Fun
02-18-2012, 4:12 PM
No and No. At least for me. I think their product offering is great, and their designs are very solid. The take down procedure on their p-series is perfect to me, and the slide shape is just how I like it (not including the standard p229). I have had a 229, 220, and SP2022, and have loved each one of them. I will have a p228 and another p220 (maybe an SAO) before too long. I used to be a fanboy because my dad taught me as a young kid that Sig was the best. But there are so many great guns out now. I still think their price is middle of the road compared to Glock and HK (similar corner of the world), and the quality of the design and engineering is top notch. I can't speak for their QC because I have never seen anything bad in the Sigs I have seen.

sammy
02-18-2012, 4:18 PM
They are a very good gun for the money. Not as good of a value as Glock but very solid, reliable and accurate. Build quality is great but I have heard some gripes on newer production guns but have not seen this in person. Just got a new 226 and could not be happier with it. They keep there resale value so if someone is not happy just sell it and move on.

134k
02-18-2012, 4:28 PM
I am sure you will like your Sig, but your experience is limited.

my experience is limited..but we all have to start somewhere.

Dhena81
02-18-2012, 5:26 PM
Overpriced but not overrated.....

Agreed

Low-Pressure
02-18-2012, 5:27 PM
I've always liked Sig pistols. I still recommend them to my friends. I think the price has gone up a little, but I don't think it is over priced. Over rated is up to the anti Sigs to decide.
BTW: I am very happy with my 15+ year old Sig P220. I also am happy with my P229 and P232.

paul0660
02-18-2012, 5:36 PM
There are cheaper / more reliable guns.......

If you are agreeing with me, thanks!

Gnome
02-18-2012, 5:38 PM
Overpriced but not overrated.....
This is what I was going to post...

I'm probably just envious...

sammy
02-18-2012, 5:45 PM
my experience is limited..but we all have to start somewhere.

Exactly. You did your homework very well. The 226 in 9mm is about the best centerfire handgun you can learn on. Where are you located? If you could use some help with the basics I am happy to help. Located in Concord 94518. PM me if interested. Sammy

a1c
02-18-2012, 5:46 PM
No.

mr00jimbo
02-18-2012, 5:51 PM
The irony. I am a rookie that bought his first handgun today. I bought a p226r and have it in jail til the 28th. After months of doing my homework and visiting local stores, a sig 226 was what I settled on. I only shot a colt, a sig and a Beretta while I was in the navy, and I always remembered the sig feeling the most comfortable in my hands.

Don't get me wrong, I think that the P226 is an excellent gun, and I want to congratulate you on your purchase. I own a P226, too, and if I thought it was in any way inferior, unreliable, whatever, I would've sold it or traded it for something that worked better.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Sigs are still great guns, but their selling points of reliability, durability, accuracy, ergonomics, have been matched by other brands for a considerably lower price tag.

Then again, I'm sure it's a lot cheaper to make a gun with a polymer frame than it is aluminum alloy.

PandaLuv
02-18-2012, 6:01 PM
Don't get me wrong, I think that the P226 is an excellent gun, and I want to congratulate you on your purchase. I own a P226, too, and if I thought it was in any way inferior, unreliable, whatever, I would've sold it or traded it for something that worked better.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Sigs are still great guns, but their selling points of reliability, durability, accuracy, ergonomics, have been matched by other brands for a considerably lower price tag.

Then again, I'm sure it's a lot cheaper to make a gun with a polymer frame than it is aluminum alloy.

so what gun do you have now?

mr00jimbo
02-18-2012, 7:11 PM
so what gun do you have now?

Pistols concerned, a P226 stainless, a P220 9mm, a Glock 21, Glock 17, Colt Series 70 1911A1 and a Browning Buckmark.

Freq18Hz
02-18-2012, 7:25 PM
having owned a sig and experiencing their crap customer service first hand, yes I think they are over rated. I would not buy a new sig.

-Freq

bohoki
02-18-2012, 7:39 PM
they are a tad overrated and overpriced now because other gun companies products have really improved like the xd its a great system the new rugers also very good not top heavy bricks like the old p89-94 guns

their new stuff seems like steps backwards

ELIXIR
02-18-2012, 7:47 PM
I own Sigs, I love them. Do I think they are over priced? YES. But that will not stop me from buying them, I work hard and I BUY what I want. And Sigs feel great in my hands compared to other brands. I guess its just a matter of preference. I will continue being a SigFan ;)

als
02-18-2012, 8:07 PM
The irony. I am a rookie that bought his first handgun today. I bought a p226r and have it in jail til the 28th. After months of doing my homework and visiting local stores, a sig 226 was what I settled on. I only shot a colt, a sig and a Beretta while I was in the navy, and I always remembered the sig feeling the most comfortable in my hands.

Sounds like you made a well-informed choice.

Aspec5vz
02-18-2012, 8:10 PM
IMO they're a tad overpriced. You're paying extra for the name just like with Surfire. Do I want one? Yea sure, but not for what they retail at...

CenterX
02-18-2012, 8:16 PM
The irony. I am a rookie that bought his first handgun today. I bought a p226r and have it in jail til the 28th. After months of doing my homework and visiting local stores, a sig 226 was what I settled on. I only shot a colt, a sig and a Beretta while I was in the navy, and I always remembered the sig feeling the most comfortable in my hands.

From what you tested - you chose well. It fit your hand and you hit the mark pretty nicely - this always feels good.

The 226 is a nice first purchase. It will last you a long time if you keep the slide will lubricated and clean.

I like Sig and also think the new cost is a bit high at times. A used Sig is still a good pistol, provided it was treated well.

Bottom line - you got to pay a price for what you want in life. Some pay the ultimate price so many can enjoy the option to pay a price.

Cnynrat
02-18-2012, 8:24 PM
No, of course not.

Knomad
02-18-2012, 8:39 PM
All I can say is that my P229 has never failed, and it fits my hand perfectly.

Steelplate45
02-18-2012, 8:52 PM
Very top heavy on engineering. When you have twice as many six figure engineers on a job, the end product costs a lot more.

And often (but not always) the product will work better.

I like Sigs, but I don't care for MBs much, because I think they are over engineered.

One poster noted that Sig 1911's are competitive with other quality 1911's. That's because the 1911 market is very competitive, and MOST of the engineering on 1911's is now common knowledge, hence fewer six figure guys on the job.

gigante
02-18-2012, 8:53 PM
I know how you feel. I bought my P220 new. Tax + DROS, you all know how much that is. I have never regretted buying that pistol. It has been exemplary in every aspect, except its finish. I shoot it well, great trigger, never a hiccup in nearly 3000 rds. Never. Yet here I am planning to sell it. My .45 rotation continues to grow, and the Sig gets out a lot less these days. But to answer your questions, No and no.

whipkiller
02-18-2012, 9:14 PM
I only have one Sig, a P239 in 9mm, but since I've owned it I've yet to have a single failure to anything; feed, eject,fire, return to battery, etc.

With the exception of the SP-01 I just bought recently, (haven't fired enough rounds yet to proclaim it perfect,even though so far it is) the Sig is my only gun that I can say that about.

I bought it used so round count is unknown, but I don't think it was a safe queen.

I can tell you mine was definitely not overpriced, 'cuz I only paid $100 for it.:43:

Do I think it's a quality weapon? Yes, absolutely.

Would I pay full price for one? No, I'd probably buy another CZ first.

hyperion.excal
02-18-2012, 9:18 PM
IMO they're a tad overpriced. You're paying extra for the name just like with Surfire. Do I want one? Yea sure, but not for what they retail at...
Im sorry but this is pure ignorance.

themailman
02-19-2012, 2:29 AM
What some people dont factor in before they buy a Sig is this: can you shoot DA/SA, and are you willing to put in the dry fire and live fire training to become proficient with a long heavy trigger pull? If not, then it most certainly is not worth it.

I am a former Sig owner (220C, 220ST, 239 9mm). I never witnessed the bad QC, but I suppose this was 2008-10, so maybe somewhere along those lines something went sour. There certainly are many reports of a QC decline, enough so to be worried about it.

Also, what do YOU want out of a pistol? A Sig P series does some things better than other pistols, but other pistols do alot of things better than a Sig. I encourage you to get to a range and rent a wide variety of pistols to see what really works for you.

IMHO, thse days, Sigs are a bit overpriced.

eifersucht
02-19-2012, 7:33 AM
All I know is that when I shoot a sig (I do not own one) I tend to shoot really well with them. Dat trigger...

BHPFan
02-19-2012, 7:46 AM
Overpriced but not overrated.....

+2

The same can be said about all the other Deutsche products (HK, Walther). Great stuff, but overpriced.

Packy14
02-19-2012, 1:21 PM
You can get good deals on base model sigs where it's not much more expensive than comparable models from other quality models (see yzernie's listing for instance).. it's not really fair to compare a polymer body (plastic) to a metal bodied Sig. I checked out a CZ 75B?, and while I may buy one eventually, I thought they were kinda ugly and the huge hammer kinda turned me off, it looked like a mutated 92FS. I am a surgeon with my p226's (I have 2 currently)... you just have to find what you shoot well and fast and go with that. As far as SA/DA, only your first shot is in DA which can be good in a SD situation where nerves can be countered with a longer pull (shoot it when you mean it). If you do buy one, try to avoid the checkmate mags, they are lighter grey in color and are made in USA.. look for the darker made in Italy MecGar's. Happy shooting.

STAGE 2
02-19-2012, 4:52 PM
American made sigs are both overrated and overpriced. They are selling a substandard product on the reputation that the german made guns built.

AlpineWeiss
02-19-2012, 5:26 PM
American made sigs are both overrated and overpriced. They are selling a substandard product on the reputation that the german made guns built.


I have been noticing this comment ever since I bought my P229. I don't agree.

The surfaces are well finished, the fit of everything is tight and precise machining is consistent and uniform. The overall feel is of a precision instrument, 250 rounds down the pipe flawlessly (I know not saying much).

So what exactly is the difference in the American made product? It seems to me like a $1000 chunk of material, manufacturing and design. What extra value am I missing by owning something made in NH?

Go Navy
02-19-2012, 5:34 PM
No, and no!

barca101
02-19-2012, 5:42 PM
+1, AlpineWeiss said. I was looking for a Sig P series pistol and settled with an Exeter, NH made P220 Elite Dark. My P220 ED was made in Nov 29, 2011, and I have shot over 750 flawless rounds through it. I'm also strongly considering carrying it on duty once I get to 1,000 rds. If thats what you call a problem, let the problems continue. Some of the problems that I read about might have been with pass production pistols, but from reading the SigForum, they fixed the problems according to B. Gray.

I'm really happy with my purchase, but now I'm looking for a German P228/P225 with or w/o the rail. I really like the clean look of the internal extractor.

Legasat
02-19-2012, 5:48 PM
I do not think they are over-rated. I do think they are over-priced, when you compare it to the competition.

coy80176
02-19-2012, 5:52 PM
I've had my P229 in .40 since '99...it was my first, and will always be my finest. I love how that gun shoots.

dfens
02-19-2012, 6:54 PM
Totally yes over priced and partially in over rated. Don't get me wrong they are excellent guns but every time I always pass because their quality and price is all over the place.

Like others have said great balance, trigger etc etc if you get a flawless one.

I can't understand while other guns only partially went up in price in the last 10 years or so that Sig has gone way up while quality took a major hit.

Where I live most model Glocks went up about 20-25 bucks while compared to back in the day, even my Beretta 92 is about about 50 dollars more than back in the day when I got mine, while Sig is now about 200-250 dollars more than before. Other than the railed frame how did the design change?

For the most part you could trust your like on one and not worry but I wouldn't ever buy one sight un-seen. I see some that are flawless while others have loose tolerances, rattle, mushy decockers etc. Yeah they may shoot fine but if I'm paying 800-900 dollars for a gun it better be perfect I'm not buying a hi-point.

Now I would live with the price increases if they were the same quality like back in the day but we all know the new rainbow, tacticool-model takes priority.

LoadedM333
02-19-2012, 7:01 PM
Love my .40 P229, yes they're a little overpriced.

Plisk
02-19-2012, 7:34 PM
From my experience I would say no to both accounts. I do not believe it is over-rated and if you understood the amount of manufacturing and quality went into these pistols you would understand the price.

BayouBullets
02-19-2012, 8:08 PM
A lot of people argue to prove that they're right. I'm arguing because I want somebody to come along and inform me that I am overlooking something. Maybe they use a higher grade of steel. Maybe they pay their employees better, all things I would accept.

I'm not aware of anything special like you mention. It's a solid design-- A tad overpriced. Very reliable, but I can name several models equally as reliable or more so for 1 or 2 hundred less money. So, yes to both, but just a little

badduggy
02-19-2012, 8:13 PM
prices depend upon demand and what the market will bear. sigs are seemingly high quality weapons. however if they are worth the premium over the other brands is completely dependent on your desires and needs.

shoot and compare them to the other major manufacturer's similar sized weapons to do an apples to apples comparison. the grip size and angle, trigger, sights, and ability to get solid follow up hits should determine the answer to your questions.

that 1st DA pull is tricky but the follow up shots esp. with a SRT are heaven:oji:

STAGE 2
02-19-2012, 8:20 PM
I have been noticing this comment ever since I bought my P229. I don't agree.

The surfaces are well finished, the fit of everything is tight and precise machining is consistent and uniform. The overall feel is of a precision instrument, 250 rounds down the pipe flawlessly (I know not saying much).

So what exactly is the difference in the American made product? It seems to me like a $1000 chunk of material, manufacturing and design. What extra value am I missing by owning something made in NH?

Lots. German sigs use tool steel for things like hammers, triggers, etc. American made sigs dont. German sigs use folded slides which makes for a better balance. American made ones dont. The finish on the american sigs is very abrasive and eats through the anodizing on the frames if you're not stupidly obsessive about lubrication. German ones use a finish that is far more compatible with the aluminum frame. And lastly, both the quality control and fit and finish is superior on the german sigs.

You dont need to take my word for it either. Head over to sigforum and they will tell you the same thing. Sig USA is more interested with making bling models and bastardizing the 55x series of rifles than producing the same quality firearms as sig sauer.

jmzhwells
02-19-2012, 8:39 PM
I have 2 P226's, both great guns. One has night sights and the SRT the other is just standard sig. The only thing I dont like is the reset on the standard trigger. Just haven't shot it that much. But the SRT is absolutely fantastic. Both were made in 08 and no QC issues with either. The SRT model was used and the standard one was bought new. Now that I have two, probably wouldn't buy another NEW one. And a P220was one of the best shooting guns i've shot. But will buy a 229 or 220 if I see a good deal. having said that, I still tell ppl to buy them.

locosway
02-19-2012, 9:55 PM
I shot a P229 in .40 the other day. I was putting my shots through the same hole. I'd say that's fairly good quality for a gun that's under $1k.

AeroEngi
02-19-2012, 10:53 PM
American made sigs are both overrated and overpriced. They are selling a substandard product on the reputation that the german made guns built.

I have over 3000 flawless rounds through my American made Sig P220 so I don't agree when people say the American made ones are no good. My P220 has been far more reliable than my more expensive Springfield 1911 TRP.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

duc748bip
02-20-2012, 12:52 AM
Sig 2022 are not over priced. :D

doug-y-doug
02-20-2012, 12:54 AM
For me, it's
1) The ergonomics. This gun fits me like a glove. I've never shot a gun as natural feeling as the P226. It's like the gun was custom made for MY hand. I can't say this for any other pistol I've shot or owned including HKs, multiple 1911s, CZs, Glocks, XDs, M&Ps and Berettas (2nd best ergos).
2) Trigger. Very smooth and predictable. Not as smooth as some custom 1911s I've shot, but best stock trigger for the money (IMO). For me, this is more of an extension of its ergonomics.
3) Accuracy: I'm not sure if it's me or the gun. I think it's a little of both. I shoot this gun more accurately than I do any other. This is probably due to the better fit.
4)Reliability: This is where it suffers. I experienced multiple FTFs and FTEs on the one I rented. Other guns might have it beat. I couldn't imagine my HK stove piping.

bigfan
02-20-2012, 8:37 AM
Compared to what?

Compared to a Glock that I will use at the range, for home SD and for fishing, camping, etc. then the Sig is overpriced. The Glock will do the same for a couple of hundred less.

Compared to an HK P7 that is going to be just a range gun, and one you don't want to risk losing in a home or CCW incident, then the Sigs are priced well, except that you aren't buying a Sig, unless it's a P210, for that purpose.

In which case, they are overpriced to comparable duty guns.

I won't comment on over-rated. I've only owned a Mosquito. And that is not too highly rated to being with (my Ruger .22s put the Sig to shame).

Packy14
02-20-2012, 10:52 AM
oh..and the SRT is beautiful... makes you want to double tap all day long.

AeroEngi
02-20-2012, 11:17 AM
For me, it's
1) The ergonomics. This gun fits me like a glove. I've never shot a gun as natural feeling as the P226. It's like the gun was custom made for MY hand. I can't say this for any other pistol I've shot or owned including HKs, multiple 1911s, CZs, Glocks, XDs, M&Ps and Berettas (2nd best ergos).
2) Trigger. Very smooth and predictable. Not as smooth as some custom 1911s I've shot, but best stock trigger for the money (IMO). For me, this is more of an extension of its ergonomics.
3) Accuracy: I'm not sure if it's me or the gun. I think it's a little of both. I shoot this gun more accurately than I do any other. This is probably due to the better fit.
4)Reliability: This is where it suffers. I experienced multiple FTFs and FTEs on the one I rented. Other guns might have it beat. I couldn't imagine my HK stove piping.

Not a good way of testing reliability. Almost all rental guns are abused to hell so you will experience FTF/FTE on almost all of them.

AJamesoo7
02-20-2012, 11:48 AM
Overpriced hmm it can be argued, overrated no...I own the sig pro my first handgun I purchased, the reason why I choose sig was the history of reliability. When I was in the police explorer back in HS deputies were carrying sigs and glock but more carry sigs because of the history of relibilty yes the finish on them look like s**h from being exposed to the elements daily (this was before the finish they have now which is a lot better) but they ran fine at the range with no failures what's so ever. I would agree what people are saying other guns are being made today less cost and probably the same reliability but these pistols are new even though the company producing them are not there's no history backing up these lower cost pistols, with sig p series there is. Just like when the 1911 first came out it cost less than the revolver but people still bought the revolvers cause of the history of reliability and engineering

Dark Mod
02-20-2012, 11:52 AM
Sigs are overpriced but not overrated. I stil think the most underrated handguns out there are CZ's

F-DA-P
02-20-2012, 11:54 AM
Somewhat overpriced, but still above-average pistols. I like them more than for instance Glocks or CZ's

Cato
02-20-2012, 11:55 AM
All the new ones are!

After Obama was elected Sig ramped up production and started cutting costs. Guide rods went plastic and the finish coatings became uneven. Who knows what else Sig cut in order to increase profit.

There's nothing special about Sigs anymore except the price.

strombeck
02-20-2012, 12:02 PM
I own 2 and they are nice guns. NO BETTER TRIGGER I have ever pulled! An I have a pretty sweet Springfield TRP. Funny how the more I shoot the more I realize the importance of a great trigger pull. So in my opinion good gun great trigger pull. I actually like the reliability of my glock's better than my sig's.

jasmen
02-20-2012, 12:05 PM
I have a few sigs two of which are new I have a P220R sse full size Birthdate dec 2011 just turned 2500 rds flawlessly and accurate as hell. I have a P220r sse carry model birthdate march 2011 4700 rds flawless and accurate.

So ask yourself are the new sigs any good or do you need to look for an older germany gun? I would say no.

As far as cost maybe but what don't cost more than it should?

mjmagee67
02-20-2012, 12:06 PM
Well having owned both Sig and Glock I will say Glocks are fine shooting pistols, BUT Sigs just shoot better for me. So I would say not overpriced or overrated. I have not seen any quality issues in neither the new or older Sig's I own. But hey every manufacture has issues from time to time.

Vanguard
02-20-2012, 12:07 PM
I have an older 226 9mm, before they added the rail to the bottom. I have thousands of rounds through it and it has NEVER malfunctioned in any way in my hand. It has FTF'd a couple of times from other people (mostly kids) limp wristing it though.

I think SIGs reliability is great but they are over priced. I can get a Glock 17 or 19 that is just as reliable (if not more so) for way less money.

joash
02-20-2012, 12:07 PM
In Canada you can buy a Norinco P226 clone for $300 new!

absc280
02-20-2012, 12:18 PM
I like my P226R very much. I sold my Glock 23 to get it. After a year I just got another G19. I still prefer my Sig by a whole lot. But if it came down to it, I'll use my Springfield Loaded 1911.

Irish Gunner
02-20-2012, 12:22 PM
I am having the same problem. I am getting a .45 ACP soon and had limited myself to the polymer types. After careful consideration I was going to go with the M&P45. Then somebody had to go and throw out "try the sig". Now I am looking for a place in the East Bay to will rent a P220 and M&P45 so that I can do a side by side comparision. I have held them both and they both feel damn good in my hand. The question remains, getting an M&P + trigger job is cheaper than out of box P220. Once I get it, it will be the only non-1911 .45 that I will keep until I pretty much wear it out so I want to make the right call.

mr00jimbo
02-20-2012, 12:35 PM
In Canada you can buy a Norinco P226 clone for $300 new!

Yup..well, more like 350 ;). I've shot one at the range. It felt quite nice, especially considering how I've thumbed my nose at Norincos in the past and have 0 of their guns. But the magazines were sharp like they were made out of discarded pop cans (probably were).
While I do think Sigs are slightly overpriced, I do understand and appreciate that some of that price is in R&D, which is why I am hesitant to buy knock-offs.
But they're sure popular up here.

beretta929mm
02-20-2012, 12:43 PM
The Norinco P226 is a shameful copy of the sig 226. The Norinco 226 uses inferior aluminum for the frame, so in order to prevent frame cracks from slide battering, they have to add a steel insert between the frame and the slide.

RRichie09
02-20-2012, 1:12 PM
Overrated? No.

Overpriced? Yup.

A standard Sig should cost as much as a Beretta 92FS, about $650. The guy running Sig right now is a money grubbing, marketing focused ***** hat! I hope they go back to the quality control they built their name on. Right now it seems Sig is more about how many color variations they can come up with and not about making sure every pistol that leaves the factory floor is in good working condition.

mblat
02-20-2012, 1:31 PM
Tell me what gun isn't now days?
Turner has Ruger P95 for sale for $320. I assume neither Turners nor Ruger losing too much money on this.
One can argue that Sigs, HK, M&P, CZ are better than Rugers. That is reasonable argument. BUT.
Even if it is true.... What HK is THREE times better? Sig is over TWO times better?

That is one side. On other side quality guns do not break catastrophically. They will serve you life time with minimal maintenance. For majority of the people they will also serve your kids for their life time.

While there are no reasons except market demand for the guns cost what they are - no, based on service life and intended purpose they are not overpriced.

sd_shooter
02-20-2012, 2:33 PM
Yes and Yes. Why pay 1.5-2.0x over other guns that do the same thing. I tried the Koolaid but didn't like it.

RRichie09
02-20-2012, 2:41 PM
Yes and Yes. Why pay 1.5-2.0x over other guns that do the same thing. I tried the Koolaid but didn't like it.


Same question as why buy a BMW over a Honda. Worth it to some, not worth it to others.

mr00jimbo
02-20-2012, 2:54 PM
Same question as why buy a BMW over a Honda. Worth it to some, not worth it to others.

There are usually reasons why one car is more expensive than another and some of it doesn't show up on paper; better steel, safer, more stable at speed, ride quality, interior quietness, etc.

With pistols, when one is more expensive, you expect it to be because of; accuracy, durability, longevity, balance, ergonomics, reliability, etc. If it can satisfy most of those things to a level superior to its competitors, then it's a superior model and worth the extra.
If other models nip at its heels for a less expensive pricetag, well...

I know Sigs to be top of the line in many of the aforementioned qualities. But that tier is getting crowded by competition now.

I think of it like Toyota. Toyota built its name on quality, reliability, and durability. It was well-known for it and it was known that if you had a Toyota, you had a reliable car.
Then something happened: other cars caught up, and became as reliable, if not MORE reliable, and Toyota rested on its laurels an let the competition creep up.

whipkiller
02-20-2012, 3:22 PM
On a side note, is there an easy way to find out when my Sig was made?

I remember somebody posted a thread awhile back with a link to a Beretta site where you could put in your gun's serial # and it would tell you when it was made; Does anyone know if there's something similar for Sigs?

KeithG
02-20-2012, 4:12 PM
On a side note, is there an easy way to find out when my Sig was made?There's a thread on the SIG Forum with SNs and dates, but no cool web-form that I know of.

whipkiller
02-20-2012, 7:53 PM
Thanks Keith, I'll give it a look.

Variable2147
02-20-2012, 9:49 PM
I feel like Sig has "Fair" pricing and makes an awesome gun...especially a used one....I don't usually buy anything new.

My P226 has been 100% reliable and more accurate than I am.

(Not Sig exclusive) but DA/SA, decocker, double stack magazine layout (To me) is the best of all pistol lay outs. good/great on all counts but not perfect in any way.

FiveSeven
02-20-2012, 9:54 PM
Are Sig Sauers overpriced and/or overrated?

Yes.

AeroEngi
02-20-2012, 9:58 PM
Are Sig Sauers overpriced and/or overrated?

Yes.

Please tell me you've at least fired one before making that statement.

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gorenut
02-20-2012, 10:49 PM
Sig 2022 are not over priced. :D

This is true. As long as you didn't get a lemon.. its very hard to beat the quality in the prices they're going for today. Very solid gun.


Sigs are overpriced but not overrated. I stil think the most underrated handguns out there are CZ's

and this.. The underrated gap is quickly closing though as seen in the rapid price rise in certain models of CZs

WolfSamurai
02-20-2012, 11:45 PM
No and no. Sig product offering is great, and their designs are very solid.

jeffrice6
02-20-2012, 11:57 PM
The only difference I can see between my old 228 & my new Elite is that little line running down the Elite's hammer :) Both shoot great, run flawlessly & are sexy as he!l. But to be fair, the Elite doesn't have the round count of the 228.

Plisk
02-21-2012, 1:20 AM
All the new ones are!

After Obama was elected Sig ramped up production and started cutting costs. Guide rods went plastic and the finish coatings became uneven. Who knows what else Sig cut in order to increase profit.

There's nothing special about Sigs anymore except the price.

The guide rods did not become plastic after 2008. They were like that for sometime and Sig officially discontinued all the plastic rods and will replace yours with a metal one if you ask them to. I have not seen any evidence for the un even finishing, but there has some some evidence for cost cutting. The new style slides on the P226s (not sure if its on other models yet) feature a round bottom cut for slide serrations rather then square cut. Both work, but the round cuts are easier to make.

You guys have to remember that Sig Sauer USA employees just over 100 people and they handle all the US and most of the international orders. Sauer Germany handles mostly their government contracts with some local international and they employ more people then the USA does. They do struggle at times and sometimes their product shows, but they always make it right.

intheknow
02-21-2012, 1:23 AM
prove it that you own them... then Ill read the rest.

Paperchasin
02-21-2012, 5:54 AM
The beauty of capitalism is that we get product choices in every price range. It is human nature to ogle over things that are expensive because it is the simplest way to separate the haves from the have-nots.

ubet
02-21-2012, 8:05 AM
I have a p220 (08 production) and the only time it has failed is when I didnt crimp bullets right and steel case wolf. Its ran wet, dry, muddy, so dirty its made a blackpowder look clean, and it just keeps running. Its very accurate and feels good.

cwin
02-21-2012, 8:47 AM
IMHO, no and no. I think they're going to be worth what people are willing to pay for them. From what I've read, they put a lot of money into research and development and have a long track record of reliability. And I definitely don't think they are overrated. I have a 2008 P226 and a 2011 German P226 and both have been reliable for me. Of course it's subjective and they are not for everyone. Just my .02

teflondog
02-21-2012, 1:35 PM
I think all of my guns are overpriced (except Glock), but I still bought them because I had to have them.

I've had my P229 for a few years now and I haven't had one malfunction so far. However it's not my favorite gun because I find it quite bulky in the slide as well as top-heavy. It's definitely not a gun I'd use for ccw.

AeroEngi
02-21-2012, 1:48 PM
The guide rods did not become plastic after 2008. They were like that for sometime and Sig officially discontinued all the plastic rods and will replace yours with a metal one if you ask them to. I have not seen any evidence for the un even finishing, but there has some some evidence for cost cutting. The new style slides on the P226s (not sure if its on other models yet) feature a round bottom cut for slide serrations rather then square cut. Both work, but the round cuts are easier to make.

You guys have to remember that Sig Sauer USA employees just over 100 people and they handle all the US and most of the international orders. Sauer Germany handles mostly their government contracts with some local international and they employ more people then the USA does. They do struggle at times and sometimes their product shows, but they always make it right.

Is this true? You can just send them an email and they'll replace your plastic guide rod for free?

djslik
02-21-2012, 1:49 PM
I own 3 P220's (2) stainless and (1) equinox. The stainless ones are amazing, my equinox bought brand new from Target Masters had ejection issues and slight discoloration under the barrel area. I sent the gun back to Sig and was in direct contact with their repair manager. They fixed all issues regarding the ejection issues, but in regards to the slight discoloration they stated that it was just a result of the coating process and sometimes it happens. The discoloration is not super apparent so I just live with it. I still love SIG's and my latest purchase was after the Equinox. I'm pretty much done with my SIG collection though so as long as my guns are functioning then I'm happy.

Everyone buys guns for different reasons and if you're not happy with SIG then don't buy one. And by the way, the gun that is always loaded and ready to go is a Springfield XD45 Compact. Why not the SIG? Because I could care less what happens to the Springfield and it seems to take a good beating.

Sturnovik
02-21-2012, 5:46 PM
The guide rods did not become plastic after 2008. They were like that for sometime and Sig officially discontinued all the plastic rods and will replace yours with a metal one if you ask them to. I have not seen any evidence for the un even finishing, but there has some some evidence for cost cutting. The new style slides on the P226s (not sure if its on other models yet) feature a round bottom cut for slide serrations rather then square cut. Both work, but the round cuts are easier to make.

You guys have to remember that Sig Sauer USA employees just over 100 people and they handle all the US and most of the international orders. Sauer Germany handles mostly their government contracts with some local international and they employ more people then the USA does. They do struggle at times and sometimes their product shows, but they always make it right.

I've shot in excess of 14 of these newer Sig pistols (P226, Sig pro (2022/2034), P220, P229 and such, all over a 2/3 year period.

To my knowledge your right with the guide rods. I've only seen 3-4 plastic ones. Thousands and thousands of rounds. You shouldn't have issues. Needless to say, they have great new models. Never had an issue with W. German or New Exeter slides.

Hell if anything the slides now take more abuse, have a better finish (although still lacking compared to tennifer/melonite), and have a better trigger out of box. I wouldnt mind owning an older one or newer one.

Rebellious
02-21-2012, 7:32 PM
No and No.

carlosdarwin
02-21-2012, 8:01 PM
I DROS'd a Sig Sauer P229 Equinox last week, and pick it up this Saturday morning. I've only shot Sigs at the range, and have never had a failure, even with those sorry ol' dirty guns. I got a great deal on the Internet, so it wasn't too expensive. Hoping its all I dreamed of and more...kinda feel like a kid waitin' for Christmas.

Icypu
02-21-2012, 8:23 PM
Sigs aren't that expensive. The quality of machining on my Sig, a 94 DAK is top notch. I can't think of a cheaper Stainless Steel/ Alloy firearm. I do think the 92F is a alloy frame, but I know the P226 is worth $200 more in my mind.

tec69
02-21-2012, 8:52 PM
overpriced? maybe. overpaid? yes. overrated? by many. happy with my sig so far? yes.

Mr310
02-21-2012, 9:03 PM
I've shot in excess of 14 of these newer Sig pistols (P226, Sig pro (2022/2034), P220, P229 and such, all over a 2/3 year period.

To my knowledge your right with the guide rods. I've only seen 3-4 plastic ones. Thousands and thousands of rounds. You shouldn't have issues. Needless to say, they have great new models. Never had an issue with W. German or New Exeter slides.

Hell if anything the slides now take more abuse, have a better finish (although still lacking compared to tennifer/melonite), and have a better trigger out of box. I wouldnt mind owning an older one or newer one.

Exactly. The newer ones are really no different in quality than the older ones. Now that I've handled both, you really can't tell.

As for the original topic... I think that they're perhaps a bit overpriced, but look, they still sell. Overrated? Not on your life. They're fantastic guns!

stormvet
02-21-2012, 9:22 PM
I dont think I would call them over priced or over rated and I pretty much quit shooting SIGS years ago. Bought my first one in the late 80's P220 that was phenomenal followed that with a P229 in the early 90's another great gun. Moved away from the DA/SA fire control system and stayed with my first love SA only and now also incorporate striker fire handguns. But if my chosen type of pistol was DA/SA I would have stayed with SIG.

But I still felt the need to own a SIG pistol so I found this sweet little .45 gently used, I dont carry it or want to ruff it up but every once in a while it finds its self doing HD duty and I dont think its over rated or over priced just not my cup of tea anymore but a darn fine weapon it is.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z207/2814V/DSCN2010.jpg

FiveSeven
02-22-2012, 4:20 AM
Please tell me you've at least fired one before making that statement.

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Yes. Many, owned one, my first duty weapon was 220.

I see no need for a DA-to-SA and a de-cocker on a handgun whatsoever.
Reliability, capacity, fin/finish, function design, accuracy, features etc etc are all not any superior to a less expensive Glock.

Sturnovik
02-22-2012, 10:51 AM
Yes. Many, owned one, my first duty weapon was 220.

I see no need for a DA-to-SA and a de-cocker on a handgun whatsoever.
Reliability, capacity, fin/finish, function design, accuracy, features etc etc are all not any superior to a less expensive Glock.

Then dont buy a DA/SA pistol. Your comparing apples with oranges.

I dont grab my G17 and walk up to a Beretta person or someone else with a DAO, DA/SA or single action and say its crap simply because for most people its easier to learn with a constant trigger and no safety.

I grew up shooting DA/SA and have no issues with it, and 1/3 of LEO still use it, and plenty of foreign and domestic contracts were just filled with HK and Sig the last couple years.

The finish is not as good as Glock, in fact I even mentioned it in this thread a few replies back. As far as accuracy, a P226 out of box (assuming you know how to shoot DA/SA), is just as accurate as a Glock out of box.

FiveSeven
02-22-2012, 4:13 PM
Then dont buy a DA/SA pistol. Your comparing apples with oranges.

I dont grab my G17 and walk up to a Beretta person or someone else with a DAO, DA/SA or single action and say its crap simply because for most people its easier to learn with a constant trigger and no safety.

I grew up shooting DA/SA and have no issues with it, and 1/3 of LEO still use it, and plenty of foreign and domestic contracts were just filled with HK and Sig the last couple years.

The finish is not as good as Glock, in fact I even mentioned it in this thread a few replies back. As far as accuracy, a P226 out of box (assuming you know how to shoot DA/SA), is just as accurate as a Glock out of box.

Fair enough. I just though of it as a handgun period.
For people who want DA-SA/decocker on a handgun then Sig is just about right or even better compared to other similar handguns.

Sturnovik
02-22-2012, 4:44 PM
Fair enough. I just though of it as a handgun period.
For people who want DA-SA/decocker on a handgun then Sig is just about right or even better compared to other similar handguns.

Its all good. I went Glock and still shoot my Sig better, DA/SA never bothered me. That said, I cant think of a platform under 500/550 other than a Glock/XD (M&P if you find a deal on it) that is extremely decent, so theres always a market for Glock/XD and even M&P (its still rather new but alot of agencies have switched to it, we'll see if they have the mileage others have).

In any case Glock is still a great option. Hard to argue against a constant trigger system for a new shooter, and an extremely nice finish and easy to replace parts.

gunafficionado
02-23-2012, 6:48 AM
You're paying for name, reputation, engineering, fit and finish.

fullrearview
02-23-2012, 7:35 AM
IT'S NOT AN HK!

True... It works!;)

XDRoX
02-23-2012, 7:45 AM
I think the problem with this argument is that there are other guns out there that give you just as fine quality and handling for the price of Sigs or much less. When comparing BMW to something like a Toyota Camry or Corolla.. there are noticeable performance enhancements, luxury features, etc on a BMW that clearly shows where your money is going towards. With a Sig, a lot of it is with the name since their QC isn't nearly as stringent as they used to be and there are MIM parts now. Mind you, I am not someone who is against MIM at all if done correctly, nor do I necessarily think Sigs QC is horrible.. its just that the price of Sigs don't reflect the savings they've made with the random cuts to the consumer. I do think that they need to stop with all the nonsense models of their guns and focus on the serious market.

They're great guns and I've owned 4 in the past, but I've since found other guns that I consider for myself, money better spent.

Yep, go drive a BMW and then a Toyota.
Then go shoot a Sig and then a Glock.

Not the same IMO. Sigs are over prices and over rated IMO. I have a German made P228. It's nice but not worth the price over a Glock IMO.

XDRoX
02-23-2012, 7:46 AM
You're paying for name, reputation, engineering, fit and finish.

You are also paying for these things with a Glock. But you're paying a much lower price.

fullrearview
02-23-2012, 8:03 AM
Look at it this way... When it comes down to saving your life, is there really a price tag that matters? Can every person shoot a Glock as well as they shoot a Sig?

If you can and you like it, great! If not, who cares if your paying a little more.

chickenfried
02-23-2012, 10:21 AM
IMHO yes and yes. Tried a few over the years just not for me. SIG 210's on the other hand, pure awesomeness...

Are Sig Sauers overpriced and/or overrated?

KeithG
02-23-2012, 10:39 AM
I wonder if there's a CGN consensus on the meaning of the words overpriced and overrated. I'm thinking it's all in the eye of the beholder. Each to his/her own.

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