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View Full Version : Close the Law Enforcement Gun Loophole


vantec08
02-18-2012, 2:35 AM
http://www.ammoland.com/2012/02/17/close-the-law-enforcement-loophole/


"Replace the word agent, with the word Citizen and the same exact thing happens can happen at the next shooting rampage, that is, a lawfully armed person stopping a crime in progress."

glockman19
02-18-2012, 8:03 AM
YES

VegasND
02-18-2012, 8:18 AM
Government lackeys will always get their perks.

It's wrong, but it's true.

It's still wrong.

Ubermcoupe
02-18-2012, 9:15 AM
The gunman was stopped only when another person with a gun, a fellow Agent, drew his own weapon and shot and killed the assailant.


This sums it up for me.
Hopefully, the only deceased victim in this story will be the gunman.
Had the fellow agents not been able to protect themselves this would have been another “office massacre.”

Why can’t everyone have the right to defend themselves. :shrug:

Ziggy91
02-18-2012, 9:32 AM
What always scared me about these sort of things is how the hell do you destinguish between a guy on a rampage and the guy trying to stop him??? LEOs usually have a uniform, or at least a badge visible... but if someone in normal clothes started shooting how would you tell them apart?
I thought of this multiple times at the range... When someone starts shooting, how will anyone know who's who?? When will people stop and ask questions? Never. They'll shoot first and ask later.
I think arming everyone is stupid, because as a whole... people are stupid. Especially under stress. I don't need my coworker to shoot me because he flinched when I came around the corner and scared him during a rampage when I'm trying to get out. I don't care if you've been trained in concealed carry or w/e... If there's a possibility, then it will happen.
I agree, arming some people is smart... but a better way to prevent workplace shooting is screening workers at the door.
Best way to keep people from shooting at work is keeping them from having weapons at work, not more.

PhalSe
02-18-2012, 9:48 AM
What always scared me about these sort of things is how the hell do you destinguish between a guy on a rampage and the guy trying to stop him??? LEOs usually have a uniform, or at least a badge visible... but if someone in normal clothes started shooting how would you tell them apart?
I thought of this multiple times at the range... When someone starts shooting, how will anyone know who's who?? When will people stop and ask questions? Never. They'll shoot first and ask later.
I think arming everyone is stupid, because as a whole... people are stupid. Especially under stress. I don't need my coworker to shoot me because he flinched when I came around the corner and scared him during a rampage when I'm trying to get out. I don't care if you've been trained in concealed carry or w/e... If there's a possibility, then it will happen.
I agree, arming some people is smart... but a better way to prevent workplace shooting is screening workers at the door.
Best way to keep people from shooting at work is keeping them from having weapons at work, not more.

Because everyone who fires a round is responsible for the consequences created by that bullet. They are responsible to know, before pulling the trigger, that they are stopping the correct threat. If they do not understand the situation enough to know that then they should not get involved. Sure someone, at some point, will be wrong and they should be judged and punished if that is appropriate, but honestly i can't think of a time that has happened before and i'm certain it would be much more rare than the already rare instances armed citizens would need to protect themselves from.

Agent Orange
02-18-2012, 9:59 AM
...I think arming everyone is stupid, because as a whole... people are stupid...

At least someone gets it.

email
02-18-2012, 10:16 AM
Ziggy, a metal detector at every business is your solution? If not that, then what's to stop an upset employee or customer from coming in and killing everyone?

BobB35
02-18-2012, 10:41 AM
At least someone gets it.

Yes Comrade..... some animals are more equal than others.. Oh and it is the governments job to protect people....except that SCOTUS has ruled that it isn't and the government has passed laws exempting them of this responsibility.

How can i say FAIL is some many words....oh yea FAIL:(:mad:

ke6guj
02-18-2012, 11:25 AM
What always scared me about these sort of things is how the hell do you destinguish between a guy on a rampage and the guy trying to stop him??? LEOs usually have a uniform, or at least a badge visible... but if someone in normal clothes started shooting how would you tell them apart?.

Sure someone, at some point, will be wrong and they should be judged and punished if that is appropriate, but honestly i can't think of a time that has happened before and i'm certain it would be much more rare than the already rare instances armed citizens would need to protect themselves from.


It just happened last month in NY. A pharmacy robbery was thwarted by an off-duty officer who was a customer in the pharmacy at the time. Responding officers then killed the off-duty officer in an apparent friendly fire incident.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/ATF-Agent-Shooting-Pharmacy-Robbery-Document-Long-Island-New-Years-Eve-138978739.html

CHS
02-18-2012, 11:31 AM
What always scared me about these sort of things is how the hell do you destinguish between a guy on a rampage and the guy trying to stop him??? LEOs usually have a uniform, or at least a badge visible... but if someone in normal clothes started shooting how would you tell them apart?
I thought of this multiple times at the range... When someone starts shooting, how will anyone know who's who?? When will people stop and ask questions? Never. They'll shoot first and ask later.
I think arming everyone is stupid, because as a whole... people are stupid. Especially under stress. I don't need my coworker to shoot me because he flinched when I came around the corner and scared him during a rampage when I'm trying to get out. I don't care if you've been trained in concealed carry or w/e... If there's a possibility, then it will happen.
I agree, arming some people is smart... but a better way to prevent workplace shooting is screening workers at the door.
Best way to keep people from shooting at work is keeping them from having weapons at work, not more.

You're a true Californian.

safewaysecurity
02-18-2012, 11:34 AM
Ziggy I hear the Brady Campaign and VPC have an opening.

PhalSe
02-18-2012, 11:43 AM
It just happened last month in NY. A pharmacy robbery was thwarted by an off-duty officer who was a customer in the pharmacy at the time. Responding officers then killed the off-duty officer in an apparent friendly fire incident.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/ATF-Agent-Shooting-Pharmacy-Robbery-Document-Long-Island-New-Years-Eve-138978739.html

And the responding officers should be judged, by the same or greater criteria used for a non-LEO citizen, for being overly eager to use deadly force when responding to the scene. A little bit of communication in a situation like that would go a long way towards preventing such tragedies. It doesn't mean disarming all non-uniformed citizens because they MIGHT make a mistake is the correct response.

IVC
02-18-2012, 11:59 AM
I think arming everyone is stupid, because as a whole... people are stupid. Especially under stress. I don't need my coworker to shoot me because he flinched when I came around the corner and scared him during a rampage when I'm trying to get out.

Nobody does. If you have an effective way to prevent people from going on a rampage, please share. The grand idea thus far has been to control guns, except that it doesn't work (Constitutional inconveniences aside). People in Chicago, DC, L.A. and other areas where guns are highly restricted still die much more than in the rest of the country. What gives? Do they "want to be shot"?

At Virginia Tech there were no "cowerkers to flinch", yet many people died. How do we reconcile your view with the reality there?

I don't care if you've been trained in concealed carry or w/e... If there's a possibility, then it will happen.
I agree, arming some people is smart...

Sure it will and sure it does. Armed defense is the last resort effort and comes with a cost. We are not picking here between good and bad. We are picking between very bad (potential for innocent people killed) and much worse (more innocent people killed for sure).

Finally, my mom says I am smart. Do I have your permission to have a gun now?

IVC
02-18-2012, 12:05 PM
At least someone gets it.

I would assume you own guns and would just want to take them from someone else because you decided they were stupid.

How do you justify your own gun ownership? Are you smarter than the rest of the population, or just special? From the official explanation, DiFi was both smarter and "more special" than anyone else in S.F. From the common sense perspective she was just a hypocrite.

Agent Orange
02-18-2012, 12:12 PM
Seems I was wrong. It's not just people as a whole. Read it again...I wasn't talking about ownership.

As for what sort of confusion is possible with shootings, Google "Atibi Thomas"

rudigan
02-18-2012, 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy91
What always scared me about these sort of things is how the hell do you destinguish between a guy on a rampage and the guy trying to stop him??? LEOs usually have a uniform, or at least a badge visible... but if someone in normal clothes started shooting how would you tell them apart?
I thought of this multiple times at the range... When someone starts shooting, how will anyone know who's who?? When will people stop and ask questions? Never. They'll shoot first and ask later.
I think arming everyone is stupid, because as a whole... people are stupid. Especially under stress. I don't need my coworker to shoot me because he flinched when I came around the corner and scared him during a rampage when I'm trying to get out. I don't care if you've been trained in concealed carry or w/e... If there's a possibility, then it will happen.
I agree, arming some people is smart... but a better way to prevent workplace shooting is screening workers at the door.
Best way to keep people from shooting at work is keeping them from having weapons at work, not more.

You're a true Californian.

Hey! As a CA native I resent that

rudigan
02-18-2012, 12:16 PM
Ziggy, a metal detector at every business is your solution? If not that, then what's to stop an upset employee or customer from coming in and killing everyone?

Your giving the metal detector too much credit

IVC
02-18-2012, 12:37 PM
It's not just people as a whole. Read it again...I wasn't talking about ownership.

"Arming" is ownership, but even if not exactly what you wanted to say, your signature line is very clear. Remember, you *are* the government and you *do* believe you should be making these decisions.

rudigan
02-18-2012, 12:44 PM
What always scared me about these sort of things is how the hell do you destinguish between a guy on a rampage and the guy trying to stop him??? LEOs usually have a uniform, or at least a badge visible... but if someone in normal clothes started shooting how would you tell them apart?
I thought of this multiple times at the range... When someone starts shooting, how will anyone know who's who?? When will people stop and ask questions? Never. They'll shoot first and ask later.
I think arming everyone is stupid, because as a whole... people are stupid. Especially under stress. I don't need my coworker to shoot me because he flinched when I came around the corner and scared him during a rampage when I'm trying to get out. I don't care if you've been trained in concealed carry or w/e... If there's a possibility, then it will happen.
I agree, arming some people is smart... but a better way to prevent workplace shooting is screening workers at the door.
Best way to keep people from shooting at work is keeping them from having weapons at work, not more.

Getting enough air inside your bubble there? Come on.

Ubermcoupe
02-18-2012, 12:49 PM
... keeping them from having weapons ...

ah ha! :magic: I knew it! :troll: Why are you here?

Librarian
02-18-2012, 12:49 PM
Dupe and off the rails.