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View Full Version : Mail order ammo to OC?


absinthe49
02-17-2012, 9:22 PM
Hello... I moved out here from Florida about 8 months ago. Holy mackerel... when I first got here I wasn't really thinking about my guns (I brought only one with me). At every turn I found out some new silly law.

First.. having to re-register my handgun that I brought into state... then the handgun roster... then the high-cap mag ban... now I suddenly noticed that many online ammo dealers won't ship to OC.

Is there a place that states that OC participates in the ammo registration law? If I search google for "orange county ammunition restrictions" at least the first two pages are just rules from ammo websites... I couldn't find a OC govt page saying that I can't get ammo shipped to me.

This place is garbage with all the laws (after coming from Florida). Does anyone on the anti-gun side have a statistic that says Florida has a higher murder rate than Cali? Any evidence that having these gun restrictions has made any impact compared to other states? I can't believe the high cap mag restrictions. A bad guy will just go buy 100 of them from another state and give the rest to his gang member friends.

They really should look at punishing criminals that use guns and not try to block everyone from using guns to stop the criminals. In Florida we have the 10-20-Life rule. Have a gun in your possession during a crime: 10 years. Discharge it: 20 years. Shoot someone else: Life. If we are so scared of high cap mags... and since the current state of laws does not prevent criminals from obtaining them... why not something like "30 years in prison for use of high cap magazine during a crime"?

Anyway... sorry for the rant but it feels like I moved to another country here. So does anyone know an official side that says I cannot mail order ammo in OC?

Thanks.

M. D. Van Norman
02-17-2012, 9:28 PM
There is no local law that restricts ammunition deliveries in Orange County. However, there are several vendors that follow the erroneous example set by Century Arms. Try another seller, such as Natchez or Ammo to Go.

devilinblack
02-17-2012, 10:53 PM
What he said ^. Living in OC I've come across this once or twice and the one time I really cared an email was enough to clear it up.

For mail order ammo SGammo.com is hard to beat though. The only place I've found that's cheaper (after shipping) is Walmart, and even that's not 100% given tax and scarcity.

absinthe49
02-18-2012, 12:02 AM
Yeah... I actually used SGAmmo to get some Ranger T a few weeks ago. Suddenly I saw these sites saying it was illegal to ship here and was like... uh oh!

socal2310
02-18-2012, 4:21 PM
We've had the same issue here in Ventura County. It's sometimes frustrating, but I know of exactly ONE retailer who actually took the time to educate themselves.

Ryan

SA227driver
02-18-2012, 10:52 PM
www.ammoman.com or JG sales. Great people and great service. Never have had a problem getting ammo shipped here to the OC from either of those two businesses.

ALSystems
02-19-2012, 6:25 AM
So does anyone know an official side that says I cannot mail order ammo in OC?

I think some of these ammo dealers have confused restrictions of Orange County, NY and placed them wrongly on Orange County, CA.

socal2310
02-19-2012, 8:21 AM
I think some of these ammo dealers have confused restrictions of Orange County, NY and placed them wrongly on Orange County, CA.

I don't think so, there is only ONE Ventura County in the U.S. and we're on the list too in spite of the fact that there isn't even a single city in the county that bans mail order ammunition, much less a county level ordinance.

Ryan

Oceanbob
02-19-2012, 9:14 AM
First...Welcome to Cal Guns...!.....plenty of good folks here. Glad you're onboard.

I live in OC and have had no problem ordering ammo. Lately from DoubleTap.

While some cities have ammo shipping restrictions I think some of these out-of-State ammo dealers lump the entire State into one boat. The same thing happens when using under-educated out of State FFLs. They simply won't take the 6 minutes to understand the situation. I simply refuse to do business with these folks.

One recent situation was the successful overturning (via Court Action) of the ammo restriction (no internet sales) law. Several out of State Ammo Vendors were not shipping ammo to the entire State of California and we had to actually call the CEOs of these companies and follow up with a lengthy email with a copy of the Court Decision to strike the new law down. It took a while to get everyone up to date. Even now, we get some companies that think ammo shipments are banned here in Kalifornistan. :facepalm:

Be well, Bob

speedrrracer
02-19-2012, 7:28 PM
For mail order ammo SGammo.com is hard to beat though.

+1 for SGAmmo.com

Maybejim
02-19-2012, 7:33 PM
First...Welcome to Cal Guns...!.....plenty of good folks here. Glad you're onboard.

I live in OC and have had no problem ordering ammo. Lately from DoubleTap.

While some cities have ammo shipping restrictions I think some of these out-of-State ammo dealers lump the entire State into one boat. The same thing happens when using under-educated out of State FFLs. They simply won't take the 6 minutes to understand the situation. I simply refuse to do business with these folks.

One recent situation was the successful overturning (via Court Action) of the ammo restriction (no internet sales) law. Several out of State Ammo Vendors were not shipping ammo to the entire State of California and we had to actually call the CEOs of these companies and follow up with a lengthy email with a copy of the Court Decision to strike the new law down. It took a while to get everyone up to date. Even now, we get some companies that think ammo shipments are banned here in Kalifornistan. :facepalm:

Be well, Bob

As I understand the law, there can be no restriction of ammo shipping since the State law was overturned and cities can not make their own laws.

ALSystems
02-20-2012, 6:39 AM
I don't think so, there is only ONE Ventura County in the U.S. and we're on the list too in spite of the fact that there isn't even a single city in the county that bans mail order ammunition, much less a county level ordinance.

Ryan
Ryan, I disagree.

Ventura County has problems with mail order ammo most likely from a misunderstanding of the condor zone laws (Ventura, Santa Barbara, etc.).

It is illegal to hunt in a condor zone with lead bullets (I believe this is > .22 caliber)
However lead bullets are not illegal to own, buy or use for non hunting purposes such as target practice or self defence.

Companies like Cheaper Than Dirt and Sportman's Guide have made these mistakes and refuse to change their policies even after being informed that they are wrong. Other companies have foolishly followed the policies of these large mail order companies.

ccmc
02-20-2012, 11:26 AM
Does anyone on the anti-gun side have a statistic that says Florida has a higher murder rate than Cali?

There's a problem with direct comparisons like this. I'm pretty sure that Florida and all the southern states generally do have higher murder rates than California and other northern states, but it's got more to do with demographics and the southern mindset than gun laws. Sadly the facts are that American blacks have a higher murder and violent crime rate than American whites, and every southern state has a much higher pct of black residents than CA. Add on to that the stereotypical southern white male rebel pride mentality, and you've got the ingredients for a culture where disputes are more likely to escalate into violence irrespective of gun laws (note - in the south, as elsewhere, most killings are likely to be intraracial rather than interracial). It's better to look at trends. Violent crime was totally out of control in Florida prior to 1987. Since Florida liberalized its gun laws the trends have been downward for violent crimes, but on an absolute basis Florida is still a rather high crime state.

absinthe49
02-20-2012, 1:17 PM
Was that based on your "gut" or statistics?

I will agree that Florida is a high crime state when compared to the nation... but California isn't exactly a low crime state either. I also don't know if the redneck factor or black factor you allude to is really backed up by facts.

I did a quick google on homicide map by state and found some images. I do realize that statistics found online can vary quite a bit because many people generating the statistics can skew things by various means:

http://geocurrents.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/US-Murder-Rtae-map.jpg

http://www.mapsofworld.com/usa/usa-maps/usa-cities-with-highest-crime-rate.jpg

http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/images/ns_charts/leading_chart/homicide_map.gif

One think you may notice is that Arizona, Nevada and New Mexico have very high rates and these at least aren't populated with the classic southern redneck. I guess they could be rednecks of sorts but I don't think the south is isolated as high crime compared to Cali and the northern states. I guess you could say there are a lot of hispanic/latino people there but I don't know if you could say that California doesn't have these populations.

Of course, Arizona, Nevada and New Mexico have pretty light gun laws so perhaps they don't look so great for gun laws preventing violence. Then again.. not all states that have liberal gun laws have high murder rates. I was looking for some statistics on this but I couldn't find a clear map of gun friendly states. I would guess though that Utah, Montana and Colorado aren't exactly anti-gun and don't have as high murder rates.

absinthe49
02-20-2012, 1:25 PM
Also, Georgia has a fairly high black population and I would guess it has a lower crime rate that Cali.

I think it is not so much race but social situations. Low income areas probably have high crime rates.

I think if all guns disappeared in the US, you would still see the same pattern of high crime rates. Just because there are no guns doesn't mean the murderers will decide not to kill someone.

ccmc
02-20-2012, 3:17 PM
Was that based on your "gut" or statistics?

I will agree that Florida is a high crime state when compared to the nation... but California isn't exactly a low crime state either. I also don't know if the redneck factor or black factor you allude to is really backed up by facts.

I did a quick google on homicide map by state and found some images. I do realize that statistics found online can vary quite a bit because many people generating the statistics can skew things by various means:

http://geocurrents.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/US-Murder-Rtae-map.jpg

http://www.mapsofworld.com/usa/usa-maps/usa-cities-with-highest-crime-rate.jpg

http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/images/ns_charts/leading_chart/homicide_map.gif

One think you may notice is that Arizona, Nevada and New Mexico have very high rates and these at least aren't populated with the classic southern redneck. I guess they could be rednecks of sorts but I don't think the south is isolated as high crime compared to Cali and the northern states. I guess you could say there are a lot of hispanic/latino people there but I don't know if you could say that California doesn't have these populations.

Of course, Arizona, Nevada and New Mexico have pretty light gun laws so perhaps they don't look so great for gun laws preventing violence. Then again.. not all states that have liberal gun laws have high murder rates. I was looking for some statistics on this but I couldn't find a clear map of gun friendly states. I would guess though that Utah, Montana and Colorado aren't exactly anti-gun and don't have as high murder rates.

Statistics when it comes to racial disparities:

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm

Gut when it comes to southern white males (note I did not say redneck). I'm a lifelong southerner.

absinthe49
02-20-2012, 3:46 PM
Point taken... you did not say redneck.. just had a knee-jerk reaction. My experience in Florida is that most people are not so southern.. at least in the cities. And I think that crime rates are higher in cities in general because of the higher population per sq mile.

I have heard statistics of black populations having higher incidences of crime... I would chalk this up to the general demographics in low income areas. It is interesting how the rate had such a steep drop from about 1995-1999. I wonder what happened there?

Also... I found this diagram on wikipedia showing international murder rates:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

It is interesting how the entire southern portion of the US (including Cali) is pretty high in terms of homicide rate. The homicide rate roughly corresponds to the population level:

http://www.eotmprep.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/population-density-us.jpg

I would think in general... where you have people more tightly packed... the more homicides. Some might chalk it up to warmer weather ;)

Finally.. I thought it was very interesting how high the rate is in Russia. Man... they are like South Africa and some South American countries in terms of homicides. I wonder what is going on there? I found a site discussing the gun laws there:

http://www.gunlab.com.ru/summary.html

Very high murder rate and gun laws like California seems to want:

1) No handguns or full auto
2) Shotguns and rifles are allowed but need license, must be kept in a safe and have to be transported disassembled.

They do not seem to have any assault weapon bans... but still... no handguns?

socal2310
02-20-2012, 4:00 PM
Ryan, I disagree.

Ventura County has problems with mail order ammo most likely from a misunderstanding of the condor zone laws (Ventura, Santa Barbara, etc.).

It is illegal to hunt in a condor zone with lead bullets (I believe this is > .22 caliber)
However lead bullets are not illegal to own, buy or use for non hunting purposes such as target practice or self defence.

Companies like Cheaper Than Dirt and Sportman's Guide have made these mistakes and refuse to change their policies even after being informed that they are wrong. Other companies have foolishly followed the policies of these large mail order companies.


I thought that at one time as well, but it doesn't compute, adjacent Santa Barbara and San Luis Obispo Counties are fully within the Condor Zone just like us and most of Kern county is as well, but they aren't included on any list I have seen - the following from Sportsman's Guide is pretty typical:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XJ5lvzEIGWs/T0LdfFVw4FI/AAAAAAAAAEE/BS_65Pw_-Iw/s852/Sportsman%2527s%2520guide.JPG

Oddly enough, they also refuse to ship cutlery to the preceding:confused:

Evidently Cheaper Than Dirt has corrected their issue.

On the other hand, since Sportsman's Guide doesn't restrict Orange County, I will concede that you might be right about that one.

Ryan

loose_electron
02-20-2012, 4:07 PM
Welcome to CA -- Several things you need living here:

Either a father or son living in AZ or Florida to
deal with your purchases of off list guns. (interfamilial transfer sidestepping)

An FFL nearby who is willing to deal with things
like one-shot exemptions family transfers, and understands how
to work within the limitations of the law.

A ton of patience to deal with this nonsense.