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View Full Version : 10 round magazine vs 10/20 vs 10/30


wikioutdoor
02-16-2012, 9:46 PM
Disclaimer

I am currently building a shtf rifle and re-evalutaing all parts of it to determine whats best for me. In my case shtf means to bug out and avoid engagements through concealment or running my *** off. Therefore every decision is based on either being backed into a corner or surprised aka 0-200 yards tops. All choices are also based on speed, reliability, ease of use. With a focus of being "always on" in case I am surprised.

What is best for me may not be for your or in some cases work at all. And while this may not be a real possibility I am treating it as such. I love my acr's and since I want to carry the best rifle when I bug out. I can and I have chosen it over my ar's and ak's. I do not believe spare parts are going to be lying around so I want to have the single best for me personally. Below is one such aspect I have considered for my situation - basically if you don't like my rifle or parts cool don't use em.

https://p.twimg.com/Al1Mfv4CMAIczOg.jpg:large

For the rest of this post I have decided to leave out the standard 10 round magazine. I use one for a 7.62x39 build because they don't have any reliably bigger. It's construction and design in lieu of the pmags is a liability. And the basic design gave me no observable advantage over the longer 10/20 which are stable to prop the rifle and shoot from. (make sure you try this before counting on it with your rifle)

What got me stated on this though is an article of tactical shooting talking about the differences between the 20 and 30 round magazines with many great points to advocate the 20 rounders one being that on many rifles you can support the rifle while shooting by using it as a base to hold the rifle up.
Also several other points on reducing exposure.

What really made me think about it is range day with some friends. A couple of them had replaced there double stack 30 round molle packs with two verticle rows of double stack 20 rounders. Essentially gaining the ability to carry 50% more rounds with there normal gear with a slightly taller vertical profile on the front of there tactical vests.

I took the opportunity to then test some of this out for myself. What I found was in line with the recommendations for a shorter 20 round mag body.

I wish I could cover all of the things I tried but I could only get solid measurements by testing prone.

First the 10/30

http://s15.postimage.org/87qwochll/Al1_Q0m_YCMAA4yxh.jpg

From prone the standard aim level was 10 inches high - with the rifle rolled over as far as I could and still shoot accurately it was 5 inches.

Using the 45 degree sights it started at 6.5 inches level and went as low as 4 inches with a solid hold.

Next was the 10/20

http://s13.postimage.org/mxkxkbymd/Al1_RZ8z_CIAA2_Aj_O.jpg

From prone the standard aim level was 8 inches high - with the rifle rolled over as far as I could and still shoot accurately it was 4 inches.

Using the 45 degree sights it started at 5 inches level and went as low as 3 inches with a solid hold.

These numbers may not seem important but as a percentage of the overall height while prone they are significant resulting in an average of 15% reduction.

Coupled with the ability to possibly carry more loaded mags on a tactical vest and utilize them for stability while shooting I will be switching to these myself.

ghostwong
02-16-2012, 10:47 PM
Let me put it this way, when the Zombie hordes are marching down your street. Do you really care if 1) you have a legal AR. 2) you have a bullet button, 3) a normal capacity 30 round mag, or better yet a 100 round beta mag? If I was on your fire team and seeing you changing 10 round mags with the bullet button . . . You will be a happy meal for the undead.

Sorry, it's late and tired and just pithy

wikioutdoor
02-16-2012, 11:11 PM
Let me put it this way, when the Zombie hordes are marching down your street. Do you really care if 1) you have a legal AR. 2) you have a bullet button, 3) a normal capacity 30 round mag, or better yet a 100 round beta mag? If I was on your fire team and seeing you changing 10 round mags with the bullet button . . . You will be a happy meal for the undead.

Sorry, it's late and tired and just pithy

I am trying to keep this within a currently legal framework - but to answer your question no I won't care if zombies come I will be using 20 round pmags if I can find them in a desert somewhere where an anonymous individual happened to leave a stockpile.

Also the 100 round beta mags are 300 dollars and a frankly a POS compared with the pmags. If you are betting your life on them you may want to try them first. Having 3 large failure prone magazines to rely on instead of 45 soup to nuts reliable pmags is a mistake, one that I wouldn't make personally.

This thread isnt really just a day worth of thought but a lifetime of good and bad parts to deal with and the basic conclusion I came to about some. And deciding to share that in a thread rather than have another which is better ar15 or ak47 thread.

IntoForever
02-16-2012, 11:51 PM
Is this a realistic (no alien invasion or zombies) urban decay SHTF? Another thing with a potential SHTF, are you trying to completely avoid taking a life? If I was trying to deter someone, I'd want a 30 round mag (even if it was a 10/30) to hopefully make someone think twice about coming at me. I think the best weapon is one you never have to use. I'd rather laugh at someone who lost their water than get in a shoot out.

wikioutdoor
02-17-2012, 9:46 AM
In essence your post negates everything a forum is about, and pretty much every new product that comes out firearms or survival wise because people are simply spending to much time thinking. And all of the magazines and books and all of the training courses because good enough is good enough.

Yeah I do spend alot of time thinking about things, right now while I am typing this I am thinking about ways to measure rifle felt recoil accurately for different brakes.

How to measure changes in weight to a rifle in a way that makes more sense.

The best way to find fresh water at the beach without using a pit and a plastic bag.

And how to approach a thread I am going to be doing in the outdoor forum soon about which plants you can easily find in so cal mountains to forage including pictures. I may also try to tackle fresh water sources using a field testing kit and a water filter.

The other half of my brain is trying how to figure out how to lighten my sports car this weekend with a little bit by rewiring and replacing the stock mirrors with non power nylon spa gt mirrors. And blocking off some of the holes in it from the removed heater and ac with custom cut carbon panels.

How to train a bunch of old ladies at the range next month. How to get my girlfriend to stop buying Victorians secret lace boy shorts all the time and try something a little sluttier. And the changes I need to make on both my work and personal websites functionally then how to increase eyeballs.

A little later today I may actually have time to eat but not to much because I am also working with 3 people on losing weight right now. Then tonight after my full time job I get to spend another 6 hours in front of a computer adding content to my site and trying to answer some of the emails I got from some firearms manufactures about my shot show coverage. And trying to finalize the paperwork for my 501.3 c so I can accept donations and fund range and hiking area cleanups starting with sapphire canyon.

Lol you probably just thought I spend all of my day in front a of a mirror practicing speed reloads with my air soft guns. I wish I had time for airsoft guns. I had to sell my play station even because the little time I spend relaxing playing grand theft auto 4 left me feeling guilty that I wasn't doing enough with my life.

And I don't see it as me vs 20 million I think globally. I think about me the 8 people I know that already have a Mormon supply of food and shelter, the 100 + firearms and the gagillion number of rounds for them. Against the other 7 billion people like the ones that think calling themselves zombie slayers matters dick.

1 SIG fan
02-17-2012, 10:01 AM
Gecko45?

DirtyLawyer
02-17-2012, 10:13 AM
While the OP is quite entertaining and creative, I agree with using whatever gives you the best FUNCTION over form. For a true SHTF situation and response, consider having some 10rnd mags available, as well as 30 hi-cap ones too. I agree that if things do truly require SHTF, you won't have to worry about Johnny Lawman arresting you for a hi-cap - in an urban decay situation, police will not be worried about you (they will be trying to save their own azz too). Keep it simple.

The Virus
02-17-2012, 10:24 AM
SHTF, Surefire 60 rd mags, LOTS of them! Bullet Button, what?

hayaku
02-17-2012, 11:46 AM
have you taken a carbine class or any carbine training? beyond sitting in the garage or bathroom looking at the mirror thinking about your gear, have you tested your gear under real use/stress? that will tell you more about what you need and should use.

for me, when i'm wearing my plate carrier and hit the deck in prone, i'm laying on top of a good 4-6" of gear at my chest so having a 30 round mag sticking out the bottom is not an issue. 10 round mags make it less easy to do mag changes, bigger mag means more finger grip area for easier manipulation and less fumbling in cold/wet environments.

romeo26
02-17-2012, 12:22 PM
In a mob attack I would want a surefire mag or two. Also I would probably have a regular mag release close by for such occasions or least the bulletbutton wrench.

And blocking off some of the holes in it from the removed heater and ac with custom cut carbon panels.


have you tried duct tape? much lighter then cf.

HK Dave
02-17-2012, 1:16 PM
Gecko45?

ROFL