PDA

View Full Version : I want an AR-15 Alternative. Any suggestions?


10101100
02-16-2012, 12:16 PM
Basically I just want something in the same caliber, if not, similar. And that can mimic the sight picture of AR-15 iron sights (peep sights) and the general feel (pistol grip, buttstock,)

I have considered building an AR-15, but there's gotta be a cheaper alternative. I just want it for target practice.

MrPlink
02-16-2012, 12:22 PM
Buy a Smith and Wesson M&P 15-22. Works and looks like an AR, but can be had new for less than 500. Plus if its just for target shooting, .22lr is about as cheap as it gets to shoot.

Quickdraw Mcgraw
02-16-2012, 12:25 PM
Get an ak74 or saiga though not much cheaper...nothing else cheaper that I know of that still works well. You can build an ar slowely and cheaply...specially if its jus fer target practice!! G-luck an don't fall for the kelltech talk.

10101100
02-16-2012, 12:26 PM
Good suggestion, but I don't want a .22lr. I want a centerfire rifle probably in 223/5.56mm. For the purposes of this, it kind of needs to be! :oji:

Sturnovik
02-16-2012, 12:26 PM
I'd say Saiga/ak or mini 14 but it sounds like theres some aspects you want that only AR type rifles have/.

10101100
02-16-2012, 12:31 PM
In all honesty, as long as the sight picture can be the same, and and still fire within the realm of .223/5.56 or 7.62x39 then I'd be satisfied assuming I don't spend so much

NorCalK9.com
02-16-2012, 12:33 PM
Ak74 545x39 w/tws dustcover w peepsite

RuggedJay
02-16-2012, 12:34 PM
saiga.

10101100
02-16-2012, 12:35 PM
Surprised no SKS suggestion yet. Is this not what I'm looking for? I see there stocks that make it more "sporterized" and I know it's cheaper than AK.

Sturnovik
02-16-2012, 12:51 PM
Surprised no SKS suggestion yet. Is this not what I'm looking for? I see there stocks that make it more "sporterized" and I know it's cheaper than AK.

I always wanted to look into one down the road, I do see them very cheap, even if there modded or have nice stuff on them.

ThemBastards
02-16-2012, 12:57 PM
Surprised no SKS suggestion yet. Is this not what I'm looking for? I see there stocks that make it more "sporterized" and I know it's cheaper than AK.

SKS' are awesome, not as accurate as an AR

You can build an AR for around $500 using rifle kits and a stripped lower.

NorCalK9.com
02-16-2012, 1:01 PM
Just get an ak and be done with it!

MrPlink
02-16-2012, 1:05 PM
This sounds like regret waiting to happen, if you want an AR, get an AR! Now if you want a true weapon, get an AK!

Garrman
02-16-2012, 1:07 PM
Kel Tec SU-16?

At ~$519.00 plus tax and DROS, seems cheap enough. No pistol grip though.

Chaos47
02-16-2012, 1:11 PM
This sounds like regret waiting to happen, if you want an AR, get an AR! Now if you want a true weapon, get an AK!

I agree. Save up get the real deal

Keltec SU-16CA maybe? Lacks pistol grip but has other things you want
http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/rifles/su-16ca/

Or maybe a Mini-14?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Mini-14
Again lacks pistol grip

hyperion.excal
02-16-2012, 1:11 PM
Mini 14 is a good alternative

Troy offers MCS chasis that will give you the look and feel of M4.

MrSlippyFist
02-16-2012, 1:14 PM
Same caliber? ARs come in lots of calibers. The initial design was .308. The most popular is 5.56. They can be had in many calibers. If you're looking for a 30 caliber battle rifle there are many fine choices. If you want a 5.56 battle rifle you might want to try airsoft.

stix213
02-16-2012, 1:15 PM
There's a lot you can do with a converted Saiga. Generally you wouldn't have AR peep sights with them, but I'm sure they are available after market. Also you can go with a quality red dot, like a Bushnell TRS-25. The UTG side mount for AK's works pretty good on a budget too, if you don't want to cough up the money for the K-var version.

Sturnovik
02-16-2012, 1:16 PM
Unless they changed the horrid rear sight, don't bother with the keltec. Im still trying to get rid of mine. But if it's for plinking it's ok.

arc
02-16-2012, 2:09 PM
I agree. Save up get the real deal

Keltec SU-16CA maybe? Lacks pistol grip but has other things you want
http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/rifles/su-16ca/


You actually can get a pistol grip for the SU-16. Of course, then you have to Bullet Button it. pistol grip (http://www.keltecweapons.com/product/pistol-grip-ar-stock-adapter-w-collapsible-stock/)

If it's just for target practice, how about a cheap crappy AR? No need to go all Noveske if you're just shooting paper/dirt. It'll probably wind up being about the same cost as a non-AR alternative in .223

-James

10101100
02-16-2012, 2:12 PM
James, what are some examples of a cheap ar? Yeah I looked into building one but to keep it under $500 would be a chore haha

10101100
02-16-2012, 2:14 PM
And yea I'm aware there's different calibers -__- haha. I just want something for practice so no need for big calibers. Buy mot rimfire

gun toting monkeyboy
02-16-2012, 2:43 PM
James, what are some examples of a cheap ar? Yeah I looked into building one but to keep it under $500 would be a chore haha

Then you are looking in all the wrong places. You can get a serviceable, complete upper from JSE Surplus and a few other places in the $350-380 range. Add a lower of your choice and the parts to go with it and you end up with a decent AR in the $500-550 range. Look at PSA for their lower parts kits, and get the lower receiver locally to save on shipping and transfer fees.

A mini-14 is NOT a lower cost alternative. They currently run more than an AR, have expensive magazines, and if you add a pistol grip, you need to jump through all the same hoops as an AR does. The SKS is fine for what it is, but it is NOT an AR. Even if you add the tech sights (For $80-ish) and a new stock. You still end up with a stripper clip-fed rifle that weighs more and is less accurate than an AR.

-Mb

Gnome
02-16-2012, 2:58 PM
Basically I just want something in the same caliber, if not, similar. And that can mimic the sight picture of AR-15 iron sights (peep sights) and the general feel (pistol grip, buttstock,)

I have considered building an AR-15, but there's gotta be a cheaper alternative. I just want it for target practice.

Good suggestion, but I don't want a .22lr. I want a centerfire rifle probably in 223/5.56mm. For the purposes of this, it kind of needs to be! :oji:

In all honesty, as long as the sight picture can be the same, and and still fire within the realm of .223/5.56 or 7.62x39 then I'd be satisfied assuming I don't spend so much

And yea I'm aware there's different calibers -__- haha. I just want something for practice so no need for big calibers. Bu[t] [n]ot rimfire

Soooo, basically what you're telling us is you want an AR-15 in 5.56/.223:rolleyes:


If you're worried about the cost, just piece it together as funds permit. If you're worried about the cost of ammo, you might want to look into the 5.45x39 chambering. From what I understand it is cheaper to shoot, but not as accurate.

I'm sure others might know more about it than me...

cabinetguy
02-16-2012, 3:14 PM
Soooo, basically what you're telling us is you want an AR-15 in 5.56/.223:rolleyes:


If you're worried about the cost, just piece it together as funds permit. If you're worried about the cost of ammo, you might want to look into the 5.45x39 chambering. From what I understand it is cheaper to shoot, but not as accurate.

I'm sure others might know more about it than me...

you arr looking for an AR, but not an AR, for cheap. How about an cheap AR? SW 16 for around $700? maybe less? build it yourself for about the same?entry level AR's wont break the bank, vs. similar rifles, so what do you want?

10101100
02-16-2012, 3:15 PM
Then you are looking in all the wrong places. You can get a serviceable, complete upper from JSE Surplus and a few other places in the $350-380 range. Add a lower of your choice and the parts to go with it and you end up with a decent AR in the $500-550 range. Look at PSA for their lower parts kits, and get the lower receiver locally to save on shipping and transfer fees.

A mini-14 is NOT a lower cost alternative. They currently run more than an AR, have expensive magazines, and if you add a pistol grip, you need to jump through all the same hoops as an AR does. The SKS is fine for what it is, but it is NOT an AR. Even if you add the tech sights (For $80-ish) and a new stock. You still end up with a stripper clip-fed rifle that weighs more and is less accurate than an AR.

-Mb

Hmm not bad. Well If I can keep it in that range then that's fine by me. Yeah It is something I would have to buy in segments

Bulleh
02-16-2012, 3:27 PM
You can also get a LW-15 Lower by New Frontier Armory, complete polymer lower for $99.

Before others chime in about a polymer lower, unless you are going to war with it, I don't you will notice anything different other than a "weird" feeling balance if you are used to traditional AR's. They proven to be pretty durable.

From what I've read, polymer lower AR-15 > any other alternatives to meet your needs.

Sicarius
02-16-2012, 4:23 PM
Su-16B. It has similar sights to the ar. Rear peep and front post. Cheap, fun, light, fairly accurate, featureless, takes cheap and readily available mags( hi caps if you had them pre y2k) and it freaking folds! Mine has been super reliable and I have the A model and I installed the B sights.
Kevin

mls343
02-16-2012, 5:09 PM
Might consider an M1 Carbine. Not a .223/5.56, and might be a little more then your stated budget, but handy, fun to shoot, and an all around must have.

Just my $0.02

Bhobbs
02-16-2012, 5:18 PM
So you want something that handles like an AR15, looks like an AR15, has the same sights as the AR15 and shoots the same round as the AR15 but isn't an AR15?

CKY
02-16-2012, 5:30 PM
Sacramento Black Rifle has complete ar's for 699, ar parts kit for under 500 all u need is a lower receiver which is 90 on sale or u can get the new frontier complete lower receiver for 100 and add a upper for 399. so a complete ar-15 for 699, 590 or 499. not bad at all. To save money on ammo buy steel case 223. They have that too.

Bete Noire
02-16-2012, 5:39 PM
Champagne tastes on a beer budget. Buy once, cry once. Just get a cheap AR.

send it_hit
02-16-2012, 5:45 PM
chances are if you get something else, you'll still want an AR even then. and you'll be even farther from affording one at that point.

as others said, build it! it might take a little longer but itll be what you want. good luck!

huck
02-16-2012, 5:50 PM
Mini 14 is a good alternative

Troy offers MCS chasis that will give you the look and feel of M4.

That's what I thought of first, but I think you can build an AR for less than you can buy a mini-14.

Arkangel
02-16-2012, 7:09 PM
Sacramento Black Rifle has complete ar's for 699, ar parts kit for under 500 all u need is a lower receiver which is 90 on sale or u can get the new frontier complete lower receiver for 100 and add a upper for 399. so a complete ar-15 for 699, 590 or 499. not bad at all. To save money on ammo buy steel case 223. They have that too.

There you go.... I'm sure it will still go over $500 with taxes and fees, but from what you describe, you want an AR but built for less money. I'm sorry to tell you that it doesn't exist. There are alternatives to the AR platform but they all cost more or do not have the features you desire. Have patience and build one. You will not be happy with a compromise.

Merc1138
02-16-2012, 7:16 PM
There you go.... I'm sure it will still go over $500 with taxes and fees, but from what you describe, you want an AR but built for less money. I'm sorry to tell you that it doesn't exist. There are alternatives to the AR platform but they all cost more or do not have the features you desire. Have patience and build one. You will not be happy with a compromise.

Exactly. Saving money by not buying an AR, and then having to buy a bunch of extra accessories to make it more like an AR(and it still won't be) doesn't save money in the end, and you still wouldn't have an AR.

SpunkyJivl
02-16-2012, 7:26 PM
A Mini-14 or Mini-30 would make a decent alternative.

russ69
02-16-2012, 7:34 PM
Build one, you can pay as you go.

drifter2be
02-16-2012, 8:01 PM
I agree. Save up get the real deal

Keltec SU-16CA maybe? Lacks pistol grip but has other things you want
http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/rifles/su-16ca/

Or maybe a Mini-14?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Mini-14
Again lacks pistol grip

SU-16, they make a replacement stock that has a pistol grip and six position stock. Keep in mind that you would need a "bullet button" which they also make.

Stock/pistol grip http://www.midwayusa.com/product/114284/kel-tec-pistol-grip-and-ar-15-stock-adapter-with-collapsible-stock-kel-tec-su-16-su-22-polymer-black

bullet button http://www.parallaxtactical.com/store/assault-planet-kel-tec-su16-su-16-bullet-button-1483.html

wizdumb
02-16-2012, 8:08 PM
The Kel-Tec SU-16 series are cheaper, but not by much. I believe you can get a new S&P M&P-15 Sport for around $600. It's not expensive, it's an investment. :)

Merc1138
02-16-2012, 8:12 PM
The Kel-Tec SU-16 series are cheaper, but not by much. I believe you can get a new S&P M&P-15 Sport for around $600. It's not expensive, it's an investment. :)

Even if the guy got the keltec su-16 for say, $550. Adding a $130 stock brings that right up to $680.

The OP would still be better off just getting an AR instead of trying to make something else feel like one.

10101100
02-16-2012, 8:14 PM
If I don't get a saiga AK I will build one. I don't mind a polymer lower either! Thanks for all the advice! I will keep in mind all these great ideas and recommendations for my future investment!

Mr310
02-16-2012, 8:15 PM
I would say a used Mini or a used DPMS.

frigginchi
02-16-2012, 8:20 PM
Daewoo DR200

http://i41.tinypic.com/2hf1hjd.jpg

cortayack
02-16-2012, 8:21 PM
Get a Saiga (what ever caliber you want), convert(fun part), and add a tech-sight! Tech-sights are peep sights on a AK!

jbush
02-16-2012, 8:23 PM
Build a cheap AR

New Frontier complete lower 100 plus tax and dros, 400 upper or maybe cheaper, sights, mags, bb. 600 to 650 max

Stripped lower 125 w dros and tax if you watch for a sale, 515 PSA rifle kit shipped, 100 bucks for bb, mags and sights under 750 total

Hard to get a good bolt gun for that and you get the sight picture and feel of an AR

tuna quesadilla
02-16-2012, 8:24 PM
So you want an AR15 but not an AR15. Got it. :p

If you do go the AR15 route, for the love of God do not cheap out and get a bargain-basement brand. The last thing we need is one more person spouting off the "AR-15s suck because I bought a POS out of spec trashcan of an AR15 and it wouldn't operate correctly" BS.

tuna quesadilla
02-16-2012, 8:25 PM
controlled pair

Saym14
02-16-2012, 8:29 PM
just get a AR 15
or geta a mini 14 with a pistol grip and mag lock.

BrokerB
02-16-2012, 8:34 PM
Daewoo. ..... Far superior to all these ar15s all the fanboys who have never used a Daewoo have not a clue to the superior performance of the woo

Merc1138
02-16-2012, 8:45 PM
Daewoo. ..... Far superior to all these ar15s all the fanboys who have never used a Daewoo have not a clue to the superior performance of the woo

Pot calling the kettle black?

jdouglas
02-16-2012, 8:56 PM
To the OP: if you know you want an AR-15, you will not be happy till you get one. ;-)

I was in the same boat as you a year ago, considering the SU-16, Saiga, AK, and AR-15. I finally decided to spend a little more and get an AR-15 (a complete Stag Arms Model 1H; around $900 total), as I knew I could not be happy till I had one. I have nothing against any of the other firearms (although the SU-16 doesn't feel as sturdy as an AR-15), and I actually hope to get an AK eventually, but I just had to have an AR-15.


And I'm glad I bought it. :D

10101100
02-16-2012, 8:56 PM
Daewoo makes guns??? Wtf. thought it was a failed car company . Anyway yeah I decided I want to build one.if I can get it to be as close to the m16a2 as possible in terms of feel then I will be happy. If not I will just buy a saiga AK haha

Merc1138
02-16-2012, 9:30 PM
Daewoo makes guns??? Wtf. thought it was a failed car company . Anyway yeah I decided I want to build one.if I can get it to be as close to the m16a2 as possible in terms of feel then I will be happy. If not I will just buy a saiga AK haha

Daewoo was a Korean "mega company". They made everything from cars, dishwashers, tanks, guns, etc. They're split up now(bankruptcy or something), but they used to be like Samsung, LG, Sony, etc.(Being one company but involved in 200 different industries)

Noah3683
02-16-2012, 9:31 PM
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m248/noah3683/IMG_2439.jpg

Sicarius
02-17-2012, 9:38 AM
The woo is freaking awesome. They do cost a pretty penny though. Long gone are the 350 dollar b-west and kimber imports of the Dr200... They go for 800ish these days. Lower of an ar that takes ar internals. The gas system was borrowed from an AK. Gas adustment was borrowed from the FAL. Looks from a galil. Not cheap but definately something unique and a well done mix.
Kevin

2FFords
02-17-2012, 9:49 AM
Get an AR. If that is what you want nothing else will do. I had a Mini 14 and traded it off for two sks's. The sks was just as accurate and more reliable. It also has a rifle stock which I like for living in this state. It makes people a little less nosey than the evil black plastic rifle. But I didnt want an AR......You do.

Javi
02-17-2012, 10:02 AM
C93?

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/data/default/images/catalog/large/C93.jpg

Sicarius
02-17-2012, 10:09 AM
Say NO to Century... unless it is a wasr...
Kevin

10101100
02-17-2012, 10:36 AM
Get an AR. If that is what you want nothing else will do. I had a Mini 14 and traded it off for two sks's. The sks was just as accurate and more reliable. It also has a rifle stock which I like for living in this state. It makes people a little less nosey than the evil black plastic rifle. But I didnt want an AR......You do.

I actually don't even really want an AR to begin with. It's just there are so many pros to it, and after hearing how it can be feasible cost wise to build it it's attracting me a lot. Originally I wanted an SKS or an AK pattern rifle. In other words, the more convincing I get to go the "Russian-Route," the more I will push the AR away again :rolleyes:

Stan08
02-17-2012, 5:25 PM
You want something .223 caliber, same AR sight picture, with the same stock and grip as an AR...

You could buy a Mini-14 and change the stocks to make it more AR-ish but it still won't shoot as accurately as an AR and in the end it you could have just bought an AR.

If its only about money you could build an AR for about $700 or less.

seainc
02-17-2012, 5:32 PM
Umarex H&K 416 22LR Rifle.
http://www.riflegear.com/p-1268-umarex-hk-416-22lr-rifle.aspx

NorCalK9.com
02-17-2012, 5:35 PM
Just get a saiga 556 and convert it!

captbilly
02-17-2012, 7:31 PM
You say in your post that you want to use your rifle for target shooting, problem is that none of the alternatives are nearly as accurate as an AR. I built a $600+ AR that will shoot 0.5 moa 10 shot groups. Compare that to my mini 14 or an AK, which will shoot perhaps 3 moa. Of course if you can't shoot very well it won't matter but if you are trying to really improve your shooting you won't be able to go very far with any inexpensive AR alternative.

p2rider426
02-17-2012, 8:53 PM
Get a PSA AR or a S&W M&P 15 Sport. Either one runs about ~ 600 before taxes and fees.

p2rider426
02-17-2012, 8:55 PM
Just get a saiga 556 and convert it!

Actually this is a great idea! Only downside is all the AK style bullet buttons I've seen suck pretty hard core compared to the AR ones.

Richard Erichsen
02-18-2012, 10:14 AM
Ak74 545x39 w/tws dustcover w peepsite

An AK with a Tech Sights aperture sight is hard to beat. If you don't desire or need a top cover picatinny mounted sight or scope, you really don't need to use the TWS Dog Leg 2 (which is a great mount by the way, but overkill for an aperture sight if that's what you're after).

http://www.tech-sights.com/

There are two main types they make, one is adjustable for windage and elevation with a single aperture, the second is adjustable for windage and has two apertures for distance. I'm philosophically behind fewer apertures, so I decided on the elevation adjustable single aperture models for my Yugo M70 builds. Sight picture is great and very similar to what the OP wants. Models for regular flavor AKM, AK47 and the more unique Yugo are available. The company is family owned right here in the US, all parts are made in the USA and the customer service is superb. This is true also of Texas Weapon Systems. Both are highly recommended, but for sights alone, Tech Sights are the better choice.

R

Coyotegunner
02-18-2012, 7:41 PM
Turners ran a ad a for a S&W MP AR 15 for I believe $679.A guy up the list said $600.I have been around 2 of them now.I do not buy one because I have a couple other brands from 20 some years ago.The friends that got the S&Ws keep talking about other brands being better,more money etc.Truth is theirs have ran flawless and are accurate.I have obtained sub 1" at 100yds with reloads.S&W backs their stuff with a warranty.Home builds give you nothing.If you know the in and outs you can build a custom.I have done it and I am not sure I saved a dime over buying one put together already.I have HAD Keltec and will leave it at that.Had I believe 7)Mini14s and still kept a Clarks custom.Even with the barrel stabilizer it only will due 1 1/4 with my reloads.I got it from a friend.That is a sad story of $475 extra dollars,spent to make it accurate.