PDA

View Full Version : shooting on my own land


LARRYPIRRONE1
02-16-2012, 7:05 AM
My cousnis and brothers and i own 120 acres of bare desert land. It is located off of Lucerne Valley cuttoff road at the base of the sidewinder mountains. There are no buildings and just dirt roads. I wanted to find out about shooting out there so called the county and spoke to a lady that made it clear that it was illegal to shoot in that area. I felt like she did not know what she was talking about but do not know where to go to find out the real truth. This is in San Bernardino county but the land may be in the "city limits" of Apple Valley or Victorville. I assume that if it is in the area of some incorporated city that the city codes would supercede county. It is further complicted by the fact that it is very difficult to locate the bounderies of this piece of land. We all inhereted it from my grandmother many years ago and have just been paying the taxes and waiting.

I guess i really want to know if i have the right to shoot on my own 120 acres (once i identify its actual location). I do have a deed but locating the actual parcel is very difficult. The last survey was done in 1920 and shows sections with numbers. We have roughly a half section but the number is not clear.

Mesa Tactical
02-16-2012, 7:09 AM
If you have a Thomas Guide for your area, it makes it pretty clear whether you are in the city limits or not.

Next, consult this map (http://www.specialdistricts.org/2/FishandGame/docs/2010_cnty_shooting_areas_final.pdf) to see whether you are in the shotgun only part of San Berdoo County, or in some other restricted area.

LARRYPIRRONE1
02-16-2012, 7:49 AM
it appears that it is near the border of the blue and red zone. shotgun only or no shooting at all depending on the exact location. It is in the middle of nowhere but maybe close enough to the 247 and the 15 to be of concern. It is between the two near lucerne valley cuttoff and stoddard wells road. Thanks for the map.

echoarms
02-16-2012, 8:02 AM
The rules will be dictated by the county. I found that it is actually legal where I live in OC to shoot on my land.

Mesa Tactical
02-16-2012, 8:37 AM
it appears that it is near the border of the blue and red zone. shotgun only or no shooting at all depending on the exact location. It is in the middle of nowhere but maybe close enough to the 247 and the 15 to be of concern. It is between the two near lucerne valley cuttoff and stoddard wells road. Thanks for the map.

Just in case you aren't aware, the map is a PDF which means you can zoom in pretty far for more detail.

keneva
02-16-2012, 9:12 AM
Where do we go to get a similar map for other counties? I'm looking for Merced.

If you have a Thomas Guide for your area, it makes it pretty clear whether you are in the city limits or not.

Next, consult this map (http://www.specialdistricts.org/2/FishandGame/docs/2010_cnty_shooting_areas_final.pdf) to see whether you are in the shotgun only part of San Berdoo County, or in some other restricted area.

ke6guj
02-16-2012, 9:29 AM
Where do we go to get a similar map for other counties? I'm looking for Merced.
you would probably need to ask the county you are interested in. SB county spend the considerable time and money to design that map. I don't think very many, if any, other counties in CA have done the same.

Ubermcoupe
02-16-2012, 9:56 AM
Not sure about Merced, but here is one for Santa Cruz (incase a Santa Cruzer stumbles upon this thread in the future)
http://gis.co.santa-cruz.ca.us/GIS/Map_Gallery/pdfs/Map%20Gallery/Land%20Use%20and%20General%20Plan/No%20Shoot%20Zones.pdf

Jack L
02-16-2012, 11:02 AM
it appears that it is near the border of the blue and red zone. shotgun only or no shooting at all depending on the exact location. It is in the middle of nowhere but maybe close enough to the 247 and the 15 to be of concern. It is between the two near lucerne valley cuttoff and stoddard wells road. Thanks for the map.

Go to the county and find out. Copy the law down if you can shoot so when/if a neighbor complains and the SO comes out you have it all in black and white. Remember to obey the law and do not fudge on it or else. Around here they are good about shooting unless you do not have the proper distances for rifle fire. One warning at best then you are in deep poop if they (SO) so choose.

Helpful_Cub
02-16-2012, 11:27 AM
I do have a deed but locating the actual parcel is very difficult. The last survey was done in 1920 and shows sections with numbers. We have roughly a half section but the number is not clear.

Visit the SB County Assessors office. With the deed and section numbers they should be able to locate your land. With that, get the GPS cooridinates of the corners so you can roughly mark out your land. A true surveyer could do it within an inch or two. You probably don't need that much accoracy for what you're proposing so your hand held GPS will get you within 10 feet or so.

a1c
02-16-2012, 11:30 AM
Here is some reading you might also want to do:
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/row/landsurveys/Study_material/California-Adverse-Possession.pdf

This is why you should fence your property, especially if you don't spend a lot of time there. Someone else could do it wrong (intentionally or not), and years later you'd realize you lost some land to them.

lgdpt
02-16-2012, 11:42 AM
Friends have 6 acres of land in San Bernardino County...outside city limits. Every time they shoot a Sheriff shows up (called by neighbors). Most of the time the Sheriff is NOT cool and my friends have to argue about the legalities... no tickets and no arrests but to them it just isn't worth it anymore.

Be ready to have a visit if you are within earshot of neighbors.

Jack L
02-16-2012, 11:52 AM
Visit the SB County Assessors office. With the deed and section numbers they should be able to locate your land. With that, get the GPS cooridinates of the corners so you can roughly mark out your land. A true surveyer could do it within an inch or two. You probably don't need that much accoracy for what you're proposing so your hand held GPS will get you within 10 feet or so.

^^^ THIS ^^^

Jack L
02-16-2012, 11:58 AM
Friends have 6 acres of land in San Bernardino County...outside city limits. Every time they shoot a Sheriff shows up (called by neighbors). Most of the time the Sheriff is NOT cool and my friends have to argue about the legalities... no tickets and no arrests but to them it just isn't worth it anymore.

Be ready to have a visit if you are within earshot of neighbors.

I agree. And if it's ok to shoot, maybe visit your neighbors and get acquainted with them. Often a little sugar goes a long way.. After all, this will be new to them...assuming you do have any neighbors. Also, SO might just be cruising one day out there and come upon you without a call. Itís best to be prepared. They may just check to make sure you are the owners of the property.

lgdpt
02-16-2012, 12:19 PM
I agree. And if it's ok to shoot, maybe visit your neighbors and get acquainted with them. Often a little sugar goes a long way.. After all, this will be new to them...assuming you do have any neighbors. Also, SO might just be cruising one day out there and come upon you without a call. Itís best to be prepared. They may just check to make sure you are the owners of the property.

Unfortunately, the SO are not usually "well informed" and my friends have not had good luck with them...

InGrAM
02-16-2012, 1:58 PM
God it would suck to have that much land and not be able to use it to shoot on... This is why I am looking at rural northern NV land, oh and it is a hell of a lot cheaper.

The best of luck to you and your land.

CCrawford
02-16-2012, 3:17 PM
Try going here http://www.co.san-bernardino.ca.us/assessor/

Using your name in the "Name Search" at the top of the page I was able to pull it up in the Parcel Map. However it was not very useful in raw form.

There should be somewhere online a township/range overlay for Google earth or simular.

or call

SB CO ISD-GIS
670 E. Gilbert Street
San Bernardino, CA 92415-0915

(909) 388-5917 - Map & Data Orders
(909) 388-5500 - Programming Services
(909) 388-0788 - Programming Services
(909) 388-0555 - Fax

You should be able to get someone there to tell you the Lat/Lon of the four corners of the lot.

LARRYPIRRONE1
02-16-2012, 7:40 PM
Thank you!. never knew about this. I did get a map from them but it is vertually unreadable. you can't see section 17 location because it is so cluttered. Was made in about 1920.

glbtrottr
02-17-2012, 6:07 AM
never underestimate a police department's ability to come by and harrass you - while "legal" and a "hunting license check" in places such as San Berdoo will be inspected while talking with you, the "neighbors complaints" may result in you being arrested for "disturbing the peace".

Jack L
02-17-2012, 6:11 AM
never underestimate a police department's ability to come by and harrass you - while "legal" and a "hunting license check" in places such as San Berdoo will be inspected while talking with you, the "neighbors complaints" may result in you being arrested for "disturbing the peace".

That's a good reason to go to the county in person and get it figured out, just where this land is and what the laws are.

echoarms
02-17-2012, 11:02 AM
But that isn't true on your own property.

BrokerB
02-17-2012, 9:44 PM
Call a local real estate agent . They have access to many good maps and software that can show you where and who your neighbours are. Also a title company will have plenty of land and best plot maps/county use codes . If need be i have some of the best title officers in the business . Pm me if needed. Imt off to Maui for 9 days so my reply may be slow . Hopefully going to mauitrapshooting club ...ya!!!!

SID45
02-18-2012, 2:28 AM
As long as you are in the county, you should be fine. Even if the cops come they will realize that it is a waste of the departments time and money sending them over there. You should be in good terms with your neighbors though, when SHTF , they will look for refuge from you.

Drivedabizness
02-18-2012, 7:57 AM
Unfortunately, the SO are not usually "well informed" and my friends have not had good luck with them...

Maybe your friends should invest in an hour's worth of Jason Davis (or some other esteemed 2A counselors) time to write and send the SO a letter warning them of what will happen the next time they get harassed for otherwise lawful conduct. Copy the County Counsel and the Clerk of the Board of Sups.

Its the County Counsel's job to keep the County out of lawsuits they don't need to be in. Its the Clerks job to make sure the BOS gets informed about potential lawsuits.

Just an idea...

Fate
02-18-2012, 8:02 AM
My cousnis and brothers and i own 120 acres of bare desert land. It is located off of Lucerne Valley cuttoff road at the base of the sidewinder mountains.

Welcome to CalGuns! You aren't perchance out near those rocks north of Cahuilla and east of Oldenburg are you? I used to do a lot of rock climbing out there.

GrizzlyGuy
02-18-2012, 8:35 AM
I have access to a title company database and I found your property in it based on your name and how you described it. I downloaded a property report and plat map. I'm not a professional and can't tell from this information if you are in incorporated or unincorporated territory. The legal description includes these parts:

CITY:VICTORVILLE
City/Muni/Twp: VICTORVILLE

Does that mean it is within Victorville? Dunno.

If anyone knows what I should be looking for to determine incorporated vs. unincorporated, let me know. CSACANONEER is a surveyor and may be able to decipher this(?).

vincewarde
02-18-2012, 11:23 AM
never underestimate a police department's ability to come by and harrass you - while "legal" and a "hunting license check" in places such as San Berdoo will be inspected while talking with you, the "neighbors complaints" may result in you being arrested for "disturbing the peace".

And they should never underestimate the ability of a good lawyer to obtain a large judgement for false arrest.

BE SURE of where you stand legally, be respectful of your neighbors by letting them know that you will be shooting safely and only during reasonable hours. If they threaten to call the cops, gently explain that you are within your rights and that you just wanted to let them know ahead of time. Most of the time, this will head off problems - at least that's what folks around me who own land say.

Make sure you are observing all the legally required clearance distances and have a good solid backstop. Be safe.

Ultimately, it's you to you. You are the one assuming the risks and responsibilities. In my book, a right not exercised is a right denied - so, if I was safe and legal I would shoot.