PDA

View Full Version : Rich's Gun Shop


drdanno84
03-31-2007, 6:01 AM
Does anyone know what happened to Rich's gun shop that was located in whittier? I did not see them at the last glendale gun show where they do private party and dealer ffl transfers.

!@#$
03-31-2007, 6:40 AM
closed

Cato
03-31-2007, 2:46 PM
Closed?!


That's too bad, Rich seemed like such a nice guy. His shop was a mess though. Seemed like he got lots of business when I was there to pick up some transfers from CWS.

!@#$
03-31-2007, 2:56 PM
Closed?!


His shop was a mess though.

so was his paperwork;)

HowardW56
03-31-2007, 3:20 PM
so was his paperwork;)


So I've heard

Cato
03-31-2007, 8:59 PM
So I've heard

So I take it he didn't close down by choice...:(

HowardW56
04-01-2007, 6:02 PM
So I take it he didn't close down by choice...:(


NOPE

MrLogan
04-01-2007, 9:00 PM
Aw, that sucks. My first OLL from CWS was shipped to Rich's. :(

Moonclip
04-01-2007, 9:14 PM
How about Flag, whats up ith them? Still in operation?

HowardW56
04-02-2007, 11:33 AM
How about Flag, whats up ith them? Still in operation?

I don't know anything about them...

Josh
04-02-2007, 11:40 AM
How about Flag, whats up ith them? Still in operation?


Flag is DOA.

Moonclip
04-02-2007, 2:41 PM
Anyone know why? I did notice they along with Rich were absent from last crossroads show. Sucked because only two transfer dealers seemed to be in Duarte and in Riverside, not convienient for OC. Ammo Bros said they couldn't do PPT at show, they were nice about it but strange as they sell guns at the show.

Rich used to charge 50 bucks to do a PPT which bugged me but I didn't say anything, wonder if that helped put him under after so many years.

HowardW56
04-02-2007, 2:53 PM
Anyone know why? I did notice they along with Rich were absent from last crossroads show. Sucked because only two transfer dealers seemed to be in Duarte and in Riverside, not convienient for OC. Ammo Bros said they couldn't do PPT at show, they were nice about it but strange as they sell guns at the show.

Rich used to charge 50 bucks to do a PPT which bugged me but I didn't say anything, wonder if that helped put him under after so many years.


He never charged me $ 50.00

Josh
04-02-2007, 2:55 PM
Anyone know why? I did notice they along with Rich were absent from last crossroads show. Sucked because only two transfer dealers seemed to be in Duarte and in Riverside, not convienient for OC. Ammo Bros said they couldn't do PPT at show, they were nice about it but strange as they sell guns at the show.

Rich used to charge 50 bucks to do a PPT which bugged me but I didn't say anything, wonder if that helped put him under after so many years.

Flag was sloppy with the paper work to say the least.

HowardW56
04-02-2007, 2:57 PM
Anyone know why? I did notice they along with Rich were absent from last crossroads show. Sucked because only two transfer dealers seemed to be in Duarte and in Riverside, not convienient for OC. Ammo Bros said they couldn't do PPT at show, they were nice about it but strange as they sell guns at the show.

Rich used to charge 50 bucks to do a PPT which bugged me but I didn't say anything, wonder if that helped put him under after so many years.

Bob (Blaze) Guerin was there....

He is located in LaHabra

Moonclip
04-02-2007, 3:01 PM
He never charged me $ 50.00

He charged me this much at August Glendale show. Was a genuine PPT situation. He also did like $45 dollars 2 years ago. I hate dealers who try to pull this. Especially since I bought a few guns from him.

HowardW56
04-02-2007, 3:04 PM
He charged me this much at August Glendale show. Was a genuine PPT situation. He also did like $45 dollars 2 years ago. I hate dealers who try to pull this. Especially since I bought a few guns from him.


Most of the dealers at gun shows add something for the cost of being there...

A small table in the middle is approximately $90.00 now...
Then the show adds a charge for AC power.

If they can't pass some of it along, they won't be there... If there is no profit in it why bother....

radioactivelego
04-02-2007, 3:12 PM
so was his paperwork;)I swear this is the most ultimate burn I've heard all day and I can't stop laughing, regardless of how sad it is.

Moonclip
04-02-2007, 3:45 PM
Most of the dealers at gun shows add something for the cost of being there...

A small table in the middle is approximately $90.00 now...
Then the show adds a charge for AC power.

If they can't pass some of it along, they won't be there... If there is no profit in it why bother....

If dealers don't like following the law then they should not bother being in attendance. AFAIK $10 is the max they can charge above the $25 required by the state. Yes I understand PPT's can be a pain but I never understood the extreme fear and hatred by dealers in doing them. Use the experience to gain a customer base. I for one since I have to make a return trip to the FFL might end up buying a gun from the case or some ammo if the dealer was helpful and didn't scowl at me for doing a PPT or claim "computer is down" as I hear Turners is wont to do.

It makes me even more upset that Rich was charging some an extra fee (like me) and not others.

HowardW56
04-02-2007, 4:16 PM
If dealers don't like following the law then they should not bother being in attendance. AFAIK $10 is the max they can charge above the $25 required by the state. Yes I understand PPT's can be a pain but I never understood the extreme fear and hatred by dealers in doing them. Use the experience to gain a customer base. I for one since I have to make a return trip to the FFL might end up buying a gun from the case or some ammo if the dealer was helpful and didn't scowl at me for doing a PPT or claim "computer is down" as I hear Turners is wont to do.

It makes me even more upset that Rich was charging some an extra fee (like me) and not others.

You are entitled to your opinion... However, I don't agree. Espically with the old home based dealers, they aren't at the show to get people to come into their store, they don't have stores...

If we keep picking on them there may be gun shows, and nobody there to handle the paperwork...

Moonclip
04-02-2007, 4:33 PM
So why didn't you go ahead and give Rich an extra 10-15 bucks out of the kindness of your heart:) I spend $1000's a year on guns and gun accessories and I can't think of a transfer dealer whom I didn't continue to give business to unless I got attitude.

Even consider this, I recently did a PPT at Fowlers in Orange, notorious for high prices. In all my gun collecting years and those of my family we have never bought a gun there. PPT went real well and they were pleasant so I made a point to at least buy some ammo even though the ammo prices are quite high there. I saw some 44spl Remington ammo there at around 40 dollars a box!

HowardW56
04-02-2007, 5:56 PM
So why didn't you go ahead and give Rich an extra 10-15 bucks out of the kindness of your heart:) I spend $1000's a year on guns and gun accessories and I can't think of a transfer dealer whom I didn't continue to give business to unless I got attitude.

Even consider this, I recently did a PPT at Fowlers in Orange, notorious for high prices. In all my gun collecting years and those of my family we have never bought a gun there. PPT went real well and they were pleasant so I made a point to at least buy some ammo even though the ammo prices are quite high there. I saw some 44spl Remington ammo there at around 40 dollars a box!

He didn't charge me 50, he charged me 45....


But next time you are at a gun show Look for Fowlers table to do your transfers....

I'm sure they will do it for the same price as in the store, if they are there....

383green
04-02-2007, 6:02 PM
You are entitled to your opinion... However, I don't agree.


It may not have been stated perfectly clearly, but Moonclip was making the point that the law specifies a maximum amount that an FFL may charge for a PPT, and any dealer who charges more than that amount is breaking the law.

It's not a question about whether you or anybody else thinks that $50 is a reasonable charge for a PPT, whether at a store or at a gun show. That would be a matter of opinion. This is a question of whether or not it is legal for an FFL to charge $50 for a PPT. That's a matter of law, not a matter of opinion. I'm also under the impression that the legal maximum is around $35, but I'm too lazy to look up the exact figure right now. :p

I have faith that one of y'all will feel motivated enough to look up what CA law has to say on the subject... :D

HowardW56
04-02-2007, 7:13 PM
It may not have been stated perfectly clearly, but Moonclip was making the point that the law specifies a maximum amount that an FFL may charge for a PPT, and any dealer who charges more than that amount is breaking the law.

It's not a question about whether you or anybody else thinks that $50 is a reasonable charge for a PPT, whether at a store or at a gun show. That would be a matter of opinion. This is a question of whether or not it is legal for an FFL to charge $50 for a PPT. That's a matter of law, not a matter of opinion. I'm also under the impression that the legal maximum is around $35, but I'm too lazy to look up the exact figure right now. :p

I have faith that one of y'all will feel motivated enough to look up what CA law has to say on the subject... :D

You may be correct...

But if you don't let these guys (the transfer dealers) make a buck at the shows, they won't be there....

383green
04-02-2007, 7:45 PM
You may be correct...

But if you don't let these guys (the transfer dealers) make a buck at the shows, they won't be there....

And if you knowingly pay them more than they are allowed by law to charge, then you are helping them break the law. If they get caught doing that, then they won't be there, anyway.

I'm not trying to argue for or against that particular law here. I don't think it's right that we should need to go through a licensed dealer to transfer a firearm, anyway. I'm just pointing out that charging more for a PPT than the law allows is a violation of that law, and if the customer pays more than is allowed knowingly then they are participating in that violation of the law... but the FFL will take all of the heat if caught, whether the customer was happy to pay the excess charge or not.

In my opinion, if you want to encourage a particular FFL to be there for you then do so with repeat business and referrals, not by helping them violate a law that could get their license yanked at the very least, and maybe even put them behind bars. If you don't like that law, then try to get it changed (I bet a lot of folks here, probably including myself, would be on your side in that effort).

LAK Supply
04-02-2007, 8:01 PM
I think you are mistaken here. If I recall correctly, the law states that the DROS cannot cost more than the specified amount, but the transfer fees the dealer charges are not regulated. I'm sure SAS could confirm this if I am correct.

383green
04-02-2007, 8:04 PM
I think you are mistaken here. If I recall correctly, the law states that the DROS cannot cost more than the specified amount, but the transfer fees the dealer charges are not regulated. I'm sure SAS could confirm this if I am correct.

Could be... I thought that this topic had come up a while back, but let's get some hard facts before debating further.

HowardW56
04-02-2007, 8:10 PM
Could be... I thought that this topic had come up a while back, but let's get some hard facts before debating further.


Fair enough, that sounds reasonable to me!!

ivanimal
04-02-2007, 8:59 PM
They may be charging you 35 for the transfer and a measly 15 for the transport and storage. I always overpay my ffl and he never refuses a request. Best money I ever spend for a priceless and thankless service.

allenst65
04-03-2007, 3:25 AM
I once considered using Rich for a transfer at the show and asked about his fees. He was very clear that he charged the CA DROS as prescribed, but also added a fee for his storage. Basically it was a warehouse fee since he had to transport and store all the guns from the show. Reading the law, I believe this was allowable since it was a separate, dealer disclosed fee that wasn't specifically part of the PPT. While this kinda skirted the law, I guess it was legal and either you agreed to pay his warehouse fee if you wanted to use him for PPT, or else you found another dealer as I did to do the deal.

That brings me to part 2 - Flag Guns. You pay your $35, fill out the 4473 and dealer worksheet at the show, then go to the store 12 days later where they release your gun to you. Sounds good, except Karen was not actually entering the electronic DROS back at the store. They ended up releasing guns that were never DROSed, and would lie to your face with a 'checks in the mail' response when you asked for proper documentation. I fought with them for four months before DOJ stepped in to make them complete my transaction properly. From the stack of dealer worksheets I saw when I went in to get my DROS copy, I have to believe Flag Guns was pulling this crap on a whole bunch of gun owners from the shows. Wonder how many of them do not know to this day that they have a gun that is still registered to the original seller ??

HowardW56
04-03-2007, 6:41 AM
I once considered using Rich for a transfer at the show and asked about his fees. He was very clear that he charged the CA DROS as prescribed, but also added a fee for his storage. Basically it was a warehouse fee since he had to transport and store all the guns from the show. Reading the law, I believe this was allowable since it was a separate, dealer disclosed fee that wasn't specifically part of the PPT. While this kinda skirted the law, I guess it was legal and either you agreed to pay his warehouse fee if you wanted to use him for PPT, or else you found another dealer as I did to do the deal.

That brings me to part 2 - Flag Guns. You pay your $35, fill out the 4473 and dealer worksheet at the show, then go to the store 12 days later where they release your gun to you. Sounds good, except Karen was not actually entering the electronic DROS back at the store. They ended up releasing guns that were never DROSed, and would lie to your face with a 'checks in the mail' response when you asked for proper documentation. I fought with them for four months before DOJ stepped in to make them complete my transaction properly. From the stack of dealer worksheets I saw when I went in to get my DROS copy, I have to believe Flag Guns was pulling this crap on a whole bunch of gun owners from the shows. Wonder how many of them do not know to this day that they have a gun that is still registered to the original seller ??

Maybe that is why they are "DOA" as someone else said earlier.....

Moonclip
04-03-2007, 7:53 PM
So if you did a PPT at Richs store in Whittier did he charge a "storage fee"? Does anyone really know exact reason why Rich or for that matter Flag went under? Was there crimnal prosecution? Seems to be a lot of dealers going under for paperwork problems and other stuff.

B&B westminster back in the day also got into hot water over PPT tomfoolery. I believe also dealeres can't demand you get an appointment to do a PPT or say they can only be done on certain days and times if they are open for business.

Maybe we should start a thread and make a sticky on good/bad places to do a PPT. Turners seems to have a bad PPT rep and I concur though I haven't done one there in like 4 years. Gunrunners Duarte was pretty good at Crossroads show, went better than Richs. Or what I might do if seller agrees is just drive down the street to Fowlers and do transfer there if at Costa Mesa show. BTW how is Grant Boys for PPT transfers? Also close to show.

BamBam-31
04-03-2007, 11:04 PM
I got a call from Rich himself several weeks back. He asked me if I had transferred two particular firearms through his shop in the past. The first one I did indeed, the second one I never even heard of. :eek:

HowardW56
04-04-2007, 6:55 AM
I got a call from Rich himself several weeks back. He asked me if I had transferred two particular firearms through his shop in the past. The first one I did indeed, the second one I never even heard of. :eek:


From what I've been told, Rich's paperwork was a mess and there were 57 firearms that Rich couldn't account for when he got audited/shut down....

He may have been trying to reconstruct paperwork when he called you.