PDA

View Full Version : Mauser K98 authenticity help


daymare
02-14-2012, 3:06 PM
I am new to Mauser's and was looking at buying from a private seller. I was looking for a RC 98k that was still able to shoot and still has the markings. I found a rifle that is a non-RC. I just wanted to know everyone's opinion (I sent Dr. Mauser and rojocorsa pm on the subject) on this rifle was, since I am willing to pay. I am wondering if you anyone could tell if the codes match the date and factory from which it was built. I did a little research but I am not sure if I am searching correctly. Also, if the price for the rifle is fair.

The seller says it has no import mark and it is a 42 1940 marked, has a good barrel but some parts are not matching (bolt). Seller is asking $475.

Pictures:

http://imgur.com/a/sJvRr

SKSer45
02-14-2012, 3:21 PM
hmmm 475 seems a little high for non matching to me....but that's just me because me and blitz got a couple of mausers for less but haven't looked at them yet. Hopefully they are not lemons.

Here is the sight some other CG have giving me and I looked up the markings and numbers. http://mauser98k.internetdsl.pl/kodyen.html

rojocorsa
02-14-2012, 3:37 PM
Yeah, +1 for mentioning that site. I should have included it yesterday on the PM.

emcon5
02-14-2012, 3:38 PM
Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure that isn't the original stock. I think it should have a flat butt-plate.

Also, the numbers on the barrel look odd. Not saying they are not original, but they look different than my 42/1940, and they look different than the two 42/1940 rifles in the Photo Reference thread on the K98forum.

rojocorsa
02-14-2012, 3:43 PM
Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure that isn't the original stock. I think it should have a flat butt-plate.

Also, the numbers on the barrel look odd. Not saying they are not original, but they look different than my 42/1940, and they look different than the two 42/1940 rifles in the Photo Reference thread on the K98forum.


Someone here last week said that byf '42s had cupped plates, so is it possible that this is correct for a '40 as well? The stock is one thing I'm unsure of, but I told the OP that it is not an RC because it has no left side number on the rear.


I have no idea about the numbers either way; at least they match.


ETA: According to this
http://www.ycgg.org/pdfpages/ww2/mauser-oberndorf.pdf

They discontinued the flat plates in late 1940 at Obendorf, so I guess that one could be correct.

mosinnagantm9130
02-14-2012, 3:51 PM
The triggerguard and floorplate are stamped, late-war production.

The barrel serial number looks odd to me. I'm wondering if they are re-numbered?

SKSer45
02-14-2012, 3:52 PM
Yeah, +1 for mentioning that site. I should have included it yesterday on the PM.

Rojo? You! noooo!!! You are my only hope for my 98k mauser cure!!! :eek:

@The OP. Going over the photos again...it looks like a good shooter and it is a BYF so that's nice. But just be careful with your money, to try deal and bring the price down a bit. Don't want to throw money in the wind and that can be said about any rifle on PPT. More money you save on the deal more you get to buy ammo with :)

any accessories come with it? Does have the cleaning Rod which is good.

Peter in CA
02-14-2012, 3:54 PM
The barrel looks replaced. The fonts on the barrel serial number and the receiver serial number do not match. Plus the barrel number has been stamped over an existing number. My vote would be "pass".

Peter in CA

emcon5
02-14-2012, 4:00 PM
ETA: According to this
http://www.ycgg.org/pdfpages/ww2/mauser-oberndorf.pdf

They discontinued the flat plates in late 1940 at Obendorf, so I guess that one could be correct.

Maybe so, but the reference photo on k98forum is a higher series (mm vs hh for the one in question, so roughly 50,000 rifles later), and has a flat plate.

emcon5
02-14-2012, 4:03 PM
@The OP. Going over the photos again...it looks like a good shooter and it is a BYF so that's nice. .

It is not a byf, it is a "42". The floorplate is a late war, stamped byf, which actually could match the stock.

SKSer45
02-14-2012, 4:08 PM
It is not a byf, it is a "42". The floorplate is a late war, stamped byf, which actually could match the stock.

oo so when its stamped "byf" to be a true byf has to be stamped were all the serial numbers are?

So that means just the floorplate was made in BYF land correct?

emcon5
02-14-2012, 4:26 PM
Yeah, the code for the rifle is on the receiver ring.

byf is still Mauser Oberndorf, but that code didn't start until 1941, and in any case, stamped trigger guards did not appear until 1944.

TRAP55
02-14-2012, 4:27 PM
The 42 code is for Mauser, Oberndorf produced 1938-40
The byf code is for Mauser, Oberndorf 1941-45
The cupped buttplate would be correct for a 1940
Restamped barrel and mismatch bolt are both telltales of a Czech refurb....maybe. $475 is still too high if it was. If the bore is good and it head spaces, it's a $300-$325 rifle.
Just noticed the front sight slotted for a hood, that didn't appear till 41.

SKSer45
02-14-2012, 4:33 PM
Yeah, the code for the rifle is on the receiver ring.

byf is still Mauser Oberndorf, but that code didn't start until 1941, and in any case, stamped trigger guards did not appear until 1944.

ahhh ok. Hey emcon where can you find all the little nip picks of mausers? I know the website I posted up earlier is the tip of the ice burg. I also know mausers is like a deranged cross word puzzle and can be very difficult. Looking to know more info because I have a mauser on the way :) want to make sur I get it done right.

emcon5
02-14-2012, 4:38 PM
The cupped buttplate would be correct for a 1940

Would be correct, or could be correct?

daymare
02-14-2012, 4:53 PM
I am asking the seller what the serial numbers are on the stock, thanks for all the help so far guys!

Rustybore
02-14-2012, 5:47 PM
I would pass, $475 asking is just too much.
I just picked up a 27 code 1940 RC for $350 at the local gun shop.

Here are a few things that are wrong with this Mauser:

1) Barrel S/N and receiver S/N do not match. Barrel 9881 O, receiver 9881 hh.
2) Barrel has been re-stamped over existing numbers.
3) Trigger guard and floor plate are late war, should be milled not stamped.
4) should have a laminated flat butt plate stock
5) original 1940 barrel would not have been machined to accept a sight hood.

This is at the most a $275-300 rifle.

Rb

blackfalcon
02-14-2012, 9:59 PM
Do the numbers on the bolt match the receiver?

daymare
02-15-2012, 12:01 AM
Do the numbers on the bolt match the receiver?

No, the bolt doesn't match the receiver. Seller is willing to throw a hood in. I think I may pass on this one.

TRAP55
02-15-2012, 12:43 AM
Would be correct, or could be correct?
Kinda sorta both.:)
Oberndorf set the standards for the other manufactures.
Flat plates were used on solid wood stocks, 1940 saw full scale production of cupped plate laminate stocks as the standard.
But.......Oberndorf did make a few laminates with flat plates, in 1937, on the S/42 rifles, and stopped on the early 42 marked rifles. At Oberndorf in 1940, the Waffenamt changed from Wa63 to Wa 655, rifles in the "a" range of serial numbers had both until the 63 marked parts were used up.

On the sight hood slot.......rifles that went back for repairs after 41 had them installed in an effort to standardize the 98K's. A sight hood still won't make that a $475 rifle.

The problem to ID a Czech refurb is the total lack of any consistent ID standards like you find on RC's. You can't tell the difference if American Bubba slapped it together from parts, or Bubba that worked in the Czech arsenal did it. Once in while you might see a Czech arsenal stamp, but even then you still don't know if the part went through there, or the whole rifle.

rojocorsa
02-15-2012, 5:10 AM
I thought the final year for hoodless sights was 1939.

emcon5
02-15-2012, 6:12 AM
Flat plates were used on solid wood stocks, 1940 saw full scale production of cupped plate laminate stocks as the standard.
But.......Oberndorf did make a few laminates with flat plates, in 1937, on the S/42 rifles, and stopped on the early 42 marked rifles. At Oberndorf in 1940, the Waffenamt changed from Wa63 to Wa 655, rifles in the "a" range of serial numbers had both until the 63 marked parts were used up.

The article linked above says "Flat buttplates were discontinued late in 1940 and cupped buttplates were used to prevent the separation of the Butt stock."

The 2 examples of matching 42/1940 rifles in the k98forum photo reference thread seem to confirm this, as both have flat buttplates, including an "MM" block which would have been made 50,000 rifles later than the one in question.
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?45-Picture-Reference-Index
I think you have to be a member to see the photos.

I thought the final year for hoodless sights was 1939. I think that was another mid 1940 change. My 42/1940 "X" block is not grooved for the hood, nor is a "S" block from the k98forum reference thread. However the "MM" series rifle mentioned above is.

TRAP55
02-15-2012, 3:54 PM
I have a real good article on Oberndorf Mausers, very well researched. I'll see if I can find it and post it here.

Flouncer
02-15-2012, 4:26 PM
All my rifles are Mausers, and I have shot them since 1996. WTH is RC ? :eek:

Unprefaced acronyms just suck. Please.

My $0.02 is I would pass on a non match/bolt receiver for $475.

paul0660
02-15-2012, 4:32 PM
All my rifles are Mausers, and I have shot them since 1996. WTH is RC ? :eek:

Unprefaced acronyms just suck. Please.

My $0.02 is I would pass on a non match/bolt receiver for $475.

Russian Capture. The ones the commies got when Adolf retreated from the Steppes. Reworked, re parked, hopefully headspaced.

TRAP55
02-15-2012, 8:23 PM
emcon, long read but tons of info.
http://www.ycgg.org/pdfpages/ww2/mauser-oberndorf.pdf

emcon5
02-16-2012, 6:05 AM
That is the same article posted earlier in the thread by rojocorsa, which I quoted above. ""Flat buttplates were discontinued late in 1940"

Based on that article, and the later production, known matching rifle in the K98forum photo thread, it seems to me like that stock is probably not original to that rifle.

TRAP55
02-16-2012, 9:07 AM
Production of both in 1940 overlapped. Unless that stock is serial matched to the receiver, it may not be original to the rifle.

Flouncer
02-18-2012, 4:06 PM
Russian Capture. The ones the commies got when Adolf retreated from the Steppes. Reworked, re parked, hopefully headspaced.

Are these the ones that Mitchells' Mausers has ground off and renumbered in their little ole house to sell as "matching" ????

edit: so you get my point. Are these the MM that have been RW to SAM ???