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sigsRgreat
02-14-2012, 11:06 AM
Thoughts on if you could only have one which would you have and why?

chead
02-14-2012, 11:14 AM
AR. Or look at an AK in 5.56 if you're wedded to the caliber. The Sig is a nice gun, but it's basically the unholy marriage of an AR and an AK without the benefits of either. From all accounts the Sig is picky with ammo, heavy, and expensive. The AR if built right can be light, relatively cheap, and easy on ammo. The AK will be arguably easier to maintain, cheaper, but heavier.

If I could have only one rifle the Sig wouldn't even be on the list

pyro3k2
02-14-2012, 11:14 AM
judging by your screen name I'm pretty sure this is going to turn into the AR fanboys against you...

Your in America...buy both!

sigsRgreat
02-14-2012, 11:17 AM
Just looking for people opinion. I'm curious as to the big difference

chead
02-14-2012, 11:20 AM
Just looking for people opinion. I'm curious as to the big difference

It's kind of hard to go point-by-point here, but the Sig has a swing-down lower and an AK-style piston-driven upper. If you want an piston AR, go with a dedicated piston AR; The Sig has been pretty much eclipsed by the current generation.

All that said, I'm sure they are fine rifles and I don't begrudge anyone who enjoys them. I'm just trying to give my opinion as per the thread.

rickster1269
02-14-2012, 11:30 AM
had a 5.56 SWAT never was better than 3 MOA. Sold it for an AR and never looked back. AR all the way

Mamluke
02-14-2012, 11:33 AM
Yea ... what an interesting screen name ... ;)

... But I wouldn't compare an AR to a 556, but rather 516 Patrol!

... c'mom dude, you's should've known better ... lol ...


..

cqbdude
02-14-2012, 11:43 AM
Also I would like point out the fact that the AR has plenty of parts that can easily be acquired vs the sig 556. And very easily modified to different calibers and interchange with other makers. It can be built in my living room with minor tools.

pyro3k2
02-14-2012, 12:15 PM
Just looking for people opinion. I'm curious as to the big difference

They are good rifles made my a great company. But they are more similar to an AK than an AR.

BHPFan
02-14-2012, 12:21 PM
Also I would like point out the fact that the AR has plenty of parts that can easily be acquired vs the sig 556. And very easily modified to different calibers and interchange with other makers. It can be built in my living room with minor tools.

This.

tomd1584
02-14-2012, 12:25 PM
I sense a little trolling, but I"ll bite. What are you trying to accomplish? A good quality DI AR-15 will run reliably for a long time.

Everyone has there stories, but my LMT is currently at around 8,000 rounds, and has been cleaned only about 5 times. I wipe the bolt down with a rag, the upper receiver the same way, and relube. Doesn't take longer than 5, 10 minutes tops.

Icant speak to the sig556 as I have no personal experience.

Richard Erichsen
02-14-2012, 12:32 PM
Thoughts on if you could only have one which would you have and why?

This has been done - ALOT. Even if you didn't say "vs." the comparisons are inevitable when dealing with rifles in the same caliber. Search will reveal more than many responders will bother repeating.

R

NorCalK9.com
02-14-2012, 12:36 PM
Sig516!

torquefliteterror
02-14-2012, 12:41 PM
I love the swat model, but honestly price and modularity are king these days. you can get so much AR for so little money and they are accurate as can be. just like ak's have been copied the world over because of their simplicity and robust nature , the AR is copied for its modularity and overall great performance. it has to say something for the design if HK, S&W ,SIG and Ruger all now have an AR varient in the market.

I would love a sig but for me it just is not cost effective. I'm used to building trick looking and functioning AR's for $7-900ish.

jchen76@gmail.com
02-14-2012, 1:09 PM
Having both, the sig is solid but not as modular as the ar. If you want minimal tinkering, the sig + a red dot or optic and call it a day. Not much to upgrade, and my swat patrol has no issues. Also have an ar with dpms upper. It is lighter and more accurate, but depending on your maintenance habit, needs more tlc. The sig is fine with occasional cleaning, the piston needing the attention. My friend with RRA ar did the squirt clp on the bolt cleaning plan but ran into issue at around 400 rounds on steady diet of wolf, stuck rounds in chamber, after a good cleaning it went back to wolf with no issues. If sig 556 was under 900 bnib it would probably sell alot better.

sigsRgreat
02-14-2012, 1:33 PM
Having both, the sig is solid but not as modular as the ar. If you want minimal tinkering, the sig + a red dot or optic and call it a day. Not much to upgrade, and my swat patrol has no issues. Also have an ar with dpms upper. It is lighter and more accurate, but depending on your maintenance habit, needs more tlc. The sig is fine with occasional cleaning, the piston needing the attention. My friend with RRA ar did the squirt clp on the bolt cleaning plan but ran into issue at around 400 rounds on steady diet of wolf, stuck rounds in chamber, after a good cleaning it went back to wolf with no issues. If sig 556 was under 900 bnib it would probably sell alot better.

I am asking for a buddy of mine really. Not trying to spark a huge debate. Just wanted to give him some inside from the people that own them. I personally have no AR's and just recently purchased my first one.

As for cleaning goes he and I both are very meticilous about cleaning!

Poppy83
02-14-2012, 2:23 PM
Currently, my only two rifles are SBRs...a 10.5" AR that I put together and a Sig P556 that I turned into an SBR.

I really like both rifles, but my AR is more accurate is has more modularity. I really only got the Sig because I wanted something different. It is not as accurate, but it's not terrible. If I could have only one, then I'd go with the AR.

Noah3683
02-14-2012, 2:57 PM
AR, sig seems to be too hit and miss to uproot the AR for me

azthig69
02-14-2012, 5:58 PM
AR. Or look at an AK in 5.56 if you're wedded to the caliber. The Sig is a nice gun, but it's basically the unholy marriage of an AR and an AK without the benefits of either. From all accounts the Sig is picky with ammo, heavy, and expensive. The AR if built right can be light, relatively cheap, and easy on ammo. The AK will be arguably easier to maintain, cheaper, but heavier.

If I could have only one rifle the Sig wouldn't even be on the list

Do you own a Sig 556 or even fired one? Your comment about Sig 556 being
picky with ammo is flat out wrong. It will eat any ammo even corrosive
without ftf or fte. You obviously don't understand how a gas piston works
over DI by saying "without benefits". Please do not feed people who wants to
be educated with false information.

intensefab
02-14-2012, 6:20 PM
Do you own a Sig 556 or even fired one? Your comment about Sig 556 being
picky with ammo is flat out wrong. It will eat any ammo even corrosive
without ftf or fte. You obviously don't understand how a gas piston works
over DI by saying "without benefits". Please do not feed people who wants to
be educated with false information.

I second that, I have both a Sig and a couple of AR's. The Sig has never had any ammo problems. Spits anything out of the pipe!! Only downfall with the Sig if you really want to pick is it is a bit heavier than my AR's.

Moonshine
02-14-2012, 6:25 PM
Didn't the sig come out back during the same time period that S&W and a lot of other big names threw their hats into the AR ring? I'm sure the SIG was cool when it first came out but piston ARs have eclipsed it in reliability and accuracy. When you throw in the modular nature of ARs there's really no need for the SIG except if you wanted to be different or add something new to your gun safe.

Noah3683
02-14-2012, 6:52 PM
Do you own a Sig 556 or even fired one? Your comment about Sig 556 being
picky with ammo is flat out wrong. It will eat any ammo even corrosive
without ftf or fte. You obviously don't understand how a gas piston works
over DI by saying "without benefits". Please do not feed people who wants to
be educated with false information.

I have fired one that belongs to my brother in law, and it in fact did NOT shoot any ammo. It was really bad with tula and didn't care for pmc much either. It isn't very acccurate either. Every mfg has a lemon or two. The 556 seems to be pretty hit and miss. In fact there was a thread less than a month ago about someone having ammo problems with their 556. Not to mention complaints about sights, canted rails, screws coming loose. It seems they are gradually working through the isssues. They have some bennefits and they have some downfalls period. Saying it will even eat corrosive ammo is retarded too. Many don't CHOOSE to shoot it due to cleanup. Not because other guns can't

azthig69
02-14-2012, 7:57 PM
I have fired one that belongs to my brother in law, and it in fact did NOT shoot any ammo. It was really bad with tula and didn't care for pmc much either. It isn't very acccurate either. Every mfg has a lemon or two. The 556 seems to be pretty hit and miss. In fact there was a thread less than a month ago about someone having ammo problems with their 556. Not to mention complaints about sights, canted rails, screws coming loose. It seems they are gradually working through the isssues. They have some bennefits and they have some downfalls period. Saying it will even eat corrosive ammo is retarded too. Many don't CHOOSE to shoot it due to cleanup. Not because other guns can't

It's really appaling how people who only have limited experience with the rifle
can speak as if they are "experts". What's more retarded than using hearsay
as facts. Maybe the fact that it's your brother in law's rifle the real reason
you bad mouth the 556....jealous!

azthig69
02-14-2012, 8:05 PM
Didn't the sig come out back during the same time period that S&W and a lot of other big names threw their hats into the AR ring? I'm sure the SIG was cool when it first came out but piston ARs have eclipsed it in reliability and accuracy. When you throw in the modular nature of ARs there's really no need for the SIG except if you wanted to be different or add something new to your gun safe.

The Sig 556 OP is refering to is the US version of the original Sig 55x series
rifle, not the AR Sig 516.

Noah3683
02-14-2012, 8:07 PM
It's really appaling how people who only have limited experience with the rifle
can speak as if they are "experts". What's more retarded than using hearsay
as facts. Maybe the fact that it's your brother in law's rifle the real reason
you bad mouth the 556....jealous!Maybe you should know your facts before you get diarrhea out the mouth son. My Brother in law is one of my closest friends, and I'm sorry but my new ACR is twice the cost. I could easily get one if I wanted. I never claimed to be an expert and we put over 400 rounds through the POS in 1 day. He has had it for 3 years, has sent it back to sig twice and pretty much accepted that it can't be his go to gun. You obviously don't know your head from your anus because having hands on failures isn't hearsay and you still don't know much about ammo when you say "It even shoots corrosive ammo"

azthig69
02-14-2012, 8:11 PM
Maybe you should know your facts before you get diarrhea out the mouth son. My Brother in law is one of my closest friends, and I'm sorry but my new ACR is twice the cost. I could easily get one if I wanted. I never claimed to be an expert and we put over 400 rounds through the POS in 1 day. He has had it for 3 years, has sent it back to sig twice and pretty much accepted that it can't be his go to gun. You obviously don't know your head from your anus because having hands on failures isn't hearsay and you still don't know much about ammo when you say "It even shoots corrosive ammo"


Amen...:)

NorCalK9.com
02-14-2012, 8:15 PM
Hk416!!!! Ftw
sig516 ftw
Ak556 FTW!!!!
aㅎㄹ노ㅛㄱ댜ㅕㅐㅠㅍ교 ㅗㅛㅇ뉴

Noah3683
02-14-2012, 8:18 PM
Hk416!!!! Ftw
sig516 ftw
Ak556 FTW!!!!
aㅎㄹ노ㅛㄱ댜ㅕㅐㅠㅍ교 ㅗㅛㅇ뉴

Agreed... well sorta lol. The 516 has eclipsed the 556 in accuracy, reliability, weight, and QC issues IMO

NorCalK9.com
02-14-2012, 8:31 PM
@noah yeah I dont have alot if experience with sig rifles but the 516 is awesome! Ive shot a couple and I fell in love but hot dang if they dont fetch a pretty penny, lol when I think of that much money for 1 rifle I think.... Hmmmmm thats a couple more AK's, ammo, and a sub2k lol.

azthig69
02-14-2012, 8:33 PM
Agreed... well sorta lol. The 516 has eclipsed the 556 in accuracy, reliability, weight, and QC issues IMO

Wait a minute...OP was refering to DI AR15, why all of a sudden gas piston
rifles FTW?????...:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

NorCalK9.com
02-14-2012, 8:35 PM
@azthig69
Sig556 is piston

sir9usr
02-14-2012, 8:36 PM
I've had my "AR15" since 1987 - it's first configuration was a CAR15 w/ an A1 style upper w/ a 5" flash hider. The lower (PWA Commando) itself has probably seen about 10-12,000 rnds and I'm on my 2nd upper, 3rd FCG, 2nd BCG, lost count on buffer tubes but on the 4th stock. It's currently sporting an M4 Colt upper. The only part I've never replaced was the bolt stop. I stopped bringing it out to the range and only take my early (fish gill) SIG 556 now...Why? It doesnt complain about the stuff I feed it. Its "minute of man" accurate but can still ring steel out to 400yrds using the diopter sight PLUS its different. I love my AR and I'll probably be buried with it but sometimes it doesn't hurt to try other stuff...(BTW: I finally cleaned the SIG after about 1000 rnds and it was still ticking like a watch).

azthig69
02-14-2012, 8:39 PM
@azthig69
Sig556 is piston

I know.

NorCalK9.com
02-14-2012, 8:43 PM
@azthig69 oh lol

Noah3683
02-14-2012, 8:46 PM
Wait a minute...OP was refering to DI AR15, why all of a sudden gas piston
rifles FTW?????...:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

I'll take a DI AR over the 556 too. I was agreeing with NorCal and my point was Sig surpassed it's own rifle when they came out with the 516. It is more accurate, to my experience more reliable, lighter weight and in the same price range while keeping most of the AR's general modularity. Perhaps a little reading comprehension is in order. I was never bashing SIG in general, just stating the 556 is not problem free across the board. If they put the same QC into every rifle that they do with the ones that have zero problems it would be one of the very best overall out there. Consistency is the issue here, not the platform design. Trust me, it was on my shortlist with the ACR, XCR, and SCAR for a new rifle... you can look back on my thread if you don't believe me. If I were the least satisfied I stood a great chance of having zero issues I would've saved a grand. Not to say the ACR hasn't taken it's share of hits either, but when you look at it as a whole.... It's mostly pissing and moaning because of A. It's Bushmaster or B. It costs more than Magpul said it would whaa whaa

azthig69
02-14-2012, 8:50 PM
I've had my "AR15" since 1987 - it's first configuration was a CAR15 w/ an A1 style upper w/ a 5" flash hider. The lower (PWA Commando) itself has probably seen about 10-12,000 rnds and I'm on my 2nd upper, 3rd FCG, 2nd BCG, lost count on buffer tubes but on the 4th stock. It's currently sporting an M4 Colt upper. The only part I've never replaced was the bolt stop. I stopped bringing it out to the range and only take my early (fish gill) SIG 556 now...Why? It doesnt complain about the stuff I feed it. Its "minute of man" accurate but can still ring steel out to 400yrds using the diopter sight PLUS its different. I love my AR and I'll probably be buried with it but sometimes it doesn't hurt to try other stuff...(BTW: I finally cleaned the SIG after about 1000 rnds and it was still ticking like a watch).


This... Those who bash other peoples rifle just to fell good is pathetic. Point
out differences in a constructive way and help out fellow calgunners who just
wants to be informed...:):)

Noah3683
02-14-2012, 8:51 PM
I've had my "AR15" since 1987 - it's first configuration was a CAR15 w/ an A1 style upper w/ a 5" flash hider. The lower (PWA Commando) itself has probably seen about 10-12,000 rnds and I'm on my 2nd upper, 3rd FCG, 2nd BCG, lost count on buffer tubes but on the 4th stock. It's currently sporting an M4 Colt upper. The only part I've never replaced was the bolt stop. I stopped bringing it out to the range and only take my early (fish gill) SIG 556 now...Why? It doesnt complain about the stuff I feed it. Its "minute of man" accurate but can still ring steel out to 400yrds using the diopter sight PLUS its different. I love my AR and I'll probably be buried with it but sometimes it doesn't hurt to try other stuff...(BTW: I finally cleaned the SIG after about 1000 rnds and it was still ticking like a watch).

Sounds like most of this stuff was replaced out of choice vs necessity. Hell I've had 5 or 6 stocks, 4 rails, 3BCG's, several different buffers and tubes, 3 different uppers, 10-12 grips..... All on one lower and not one of them was bad when being swapped lol. My thing is this...... The thread isn't about something different, or trying other stuff. It's a comparison thread on what people would take if they could only have one. Seems to me the 556 fanboys are the ones that started getting upset about other people choosing the AR

azthig69
02-14-2012, 9:02 PM
Maybe you should know your facts before you get diarrhea out the mouth son. My Brother in law is one of my closest friends, and I'm sorry but my new ACR is twice the cost. I could easily get one if I wanted. I never claimed to be an expert and we put over 400 rounds through the POS in 1 day. He has had it for 3 years, has sent it back to sig twice and pretty much accepted that it can't be his go to gun. You obviously don't know your head from your anus because having hands on failures isn't hearsay and you still don't know much about ammo when you say "It even shoots corrosive ammo"

Ok since you started this. I do have other rifles, a 922r compliant HK G36
clone. Last time I checked cost more than 2 ACRs......w/optics :):):)

Waiting for more personal insults....

gun toting monkeyboy
02-14-2012, 9:06 PM
I think the sig has a certain "cool" factor. But I would go with the AR because it tends to be more accurate from what I have seen. And parts are easy to come by. And I can mod it to here and back again with parts I find everywhere. And in general it costs less to build a basic AR, And... The list goes on and on. But I still think the sigs are kinda cool. Just not "only gun I own" cool.

-Mb

Noah3683
02-14-2012, 9:10 PM
Ok since you started this. I do have other rifles, a 922r compliant HK G36
clone. Last time I checked cost more than 2 ACRs......w/optics :):):)

Waiting for more personal insults....

Damn dude... Troll much? Seriously and WTF does it have to do with me being jealous of my brother in law having a 556 as if I couldn't afford one or had a problem with my bro in law?... So you say you have a G36 which I seriously doubt. Big deal you want an effin cookie? You have been trolling from the start and amazingly you said "Amen" the first time you quoted it because you were obviously too stupid to even comprehend what you were reading at the moment. Must be Jukebox back again

azthig69
02-14-2012, 9:11 PM
I'll take a DI AR over the 556 too. I was agreeing with NorCal and my point was Sig surpassed it's own rifle when they came out with the 516. It is more accurate, to my experience more reliable, lighter weight and in the same price range while keeping most of the AR's general modularity. Perhaps a little reading comprehension is in order. I was never bashing SIG in general, just stating the 556 is not problem free across the board. If they put the same QC into every rifle that they do with the ones that have zero problems it would be one of the very best overall out there. Consistency is the issue here, not the platform design. Trust me, it was on my shortlist with the ACR, XCR, and SCAR for a new rifle... you can look back on my thread if you don't believe me. If I were the least satisfied I stood a great chance of having zero issues I would've saved a grand. Not to say the ACR hasn't taken it's share of hits either, but when you look at it as a whole.... It's mostly pissing and moaning because of A. It's Bushmaster or B. It costs more than Magpul said it would whaa whaa


Either me or your just too confused not knowing DI vs gas piston.
But definitely not my reading comprehension, I spent 5 years in college
to get my Bachelor's degree...:):):)

Awaiting more personal insults...:):):)

SouthCoastTargets
02-14-2012, 9:11 PM
i have shot a lot of AR's in the last few years, and i had the privilege of shooting a sig 556 last year (the one and only time)

hands down sig 556 IMO. its the Cadillac of rifles chambered in 5.56 (although i have not shot the HK MR556 yet, so that might top the sig, but i doubt it) , now the one i shot did have aftermarket upgrades and was fitted with an EOtech holosight. surprisingly i was not to happy with the holosight and will stick to the aimpoint comp ML3, but i digress. the Sig was Flawless, i mean the balance, the weight, thing of beauty (im a big guy, some say its too heavy but i carry around a 23 lb M249 when we play airsoft, so the weight is nothing to me.). now if i were to get one of my own, i would get one as an SBR (im temporarily living in "commiefornia" while i finish college, and will return to a free state after) the sig is expensive, but if you are going to go that route may as well pay the extra $200 tax and get the SBR version (if you legally can).

azthig69
02-14-2012, 9:18 PM
Damn dude... Troll much? Seriously and WTF does it have to do with me being jealous of my brother in law having a 556 as if I couldn't afford one or had a problem with my bro in law?... So you say you have a G36 which I seriously doubt. Big deal you want an effin cookie? You have been trolling from the start and amazingly you said "Amen" the first time you quoted it because you were obviously too stupid to even comprehend what you were reading at the moment. Must be Jukebox back again

Really??? C'mon don't be upset...:):):)

azthig69
02-14-2012, 9:22 PM
Damn dude... Troll much? Seriously and WTF does it have to do with me being jealous of my brother in law having a 556 as if I couldn't afford one or had a problem with my bro in law?... So you say you have a G36 which I seriously doubt. Big deal you want an effin cookie? You have been trolling from the start and amazingly you said "Amen" the first time you quoted it because you were obviously too stupid to even comprehend what you were reading at the moment. Must be Jukebox back again


Winning!!!!:):):)

Striker
02-15-2012, 9:05 AM
Thoughts on if you could only have one which would you have and why?

A good quality DI AR, like Daniel Defense, BCM, Colt etc. Some people think they need to be kept spotless, but they don't. They do need to kept wet though. Light, good accuracy, dependable. Proven design and easy to find parts. Fairly inexpensive.

The 556 is a long stroke piston gun based on the Sig 550. More AK than AR. I like piston guns as well, but be mindful of the fact that they all have proprietary parts, which are going to be harder to get, so keep extras on hand. Personally, I would choose HK416 over any piston gun if I could get one. Has proven to work in s-holes around the world. If not, LWRC is worth a look. I've run one a couple of times and they're nice, accurate, but a little heavy. LMT is also worth a look as well, but as I recall, it has a monolithic upper, which I just don't personally care for. If you want long stroke in 5.56, look at PWS or look at an AK 74 in 5.45.

Just my opinion. Hope it helps.

wikioutdoor
02-15-2012, 12:08 PM
I sense a little trolling, but I"ll bite. What are you trying to accomplish? A good quality DI AR-15 will run reliably for a long time.

Everyone has there stories, but my LMT is currently at around 8,000 rounds, and has been cleaned only about 5 times. I wipe the bolt down with a rag, the upper receiver the same way, and relube. Doesn't take longer than 5, 10 minutes tops.

I cant speak to the sig556 as I have no personal experience.

As soon as someone starts telling me they don't properly maintain a rifle they lose all credibility and attention.

That kind of stuff is fine if you are torture testing as a manufacturer or just wondering how far you could push something but doing it for no reason is like driving around with no oil in the crankcase, it serves no purpose other than to tempt ruin.

The sig for me just doesn't feel all that solid and that translates into the confidence I have using one. I might never use a rifle as a club but having one that feels like I can is certainly a plus.

NorCalK9.com
02-15-2012, 12:51 PM
@tomd
So you only clean the bolt? Considering a huge fail in di ar's is the chamber fouling I find it hard to believe 8k rounds without cleaning the chamber! Not saying your lying but would love to see a pic of your chamber....??

GM4spd
02-15-2012, 2:06 PM
I second that, I have both a Sig and a couple of AR's. The Sig has never had any ammo problems. Spits anything out of the pipe!! Only downfall with the Sig if you really want to pick is it is a bit heavier than my AR's.

This! The guy saying the SIG is ammo picky is WRONG--these rifles shoot
anything. They are NOT AR accurate but in the real world (NOT accuracy off
a bench with handloads,specialty ammo,super optics,ad nauseum) the
SIG is pretty good. The SIG is just about indestructible(being an AK design)
a lot more robust then your AR. If you are so inclined the SIG requires
little maintenance to keep functioning. It is heavier then the AR but stays on target
very well, if you have the Swiss folding stock you have one of the best
ergonomically made folders in the business,also has an ambi safety,and
uses ALL M16/AR mags. Pete

http://fototime.com/0C79DDF50C94386/standard.jpg

http://fototime.com/77CA822748D12D1/standard.jpg

Noah3683
02-15-2012, 2:19 PM
Hmm must've just imagined it happening in my hand huh? :rolleyes: Thats just as asinine as saying a Toyota never breaks down, or there are never problems with AK's. I'm sure when they operate perfect they are fantastic, but they don't all operate perfect. I know a few sig fanatics that won't get anywhere near it either. I would buy one used from a seller I trusted when he says it's trouble free but I wouldn't buy one from the store that hasn't been run and well inspected yet. I have talked to a few people that had zero issues, and a couple that had... 2 outta 4 or 5 wasn't good enough for me. I'll buy yours from you though Pete :D

NorCalK9.com
02-15-2012, 2:54 PM
@noah
Hey bud I have no dog in this fight, but everything youre saying about your limited experience with Sig is and everyday topic with AR owners!
So how do you feel about ar's?

Noah3683
02-15-2012, 3:06 PM
@noah
Hey bud I have no dog in this fight, but everything youre saying about your limited experience with Sig is and everyday topic with AR owners!
So how do you feel about ar's?

I don't usually shoot cheap crap in the AR's because I don't buy cheap Ar's lol and it isn't my favorite platform in the world either. That said, all my AR's have run Silver Bear, one didn't like tula as long as the H buffer was installed. 556's are supposed to eat everything and when you buy an AR from a reputable MFG and keep it lubed, you usually don't have the other QC issues. DI is definitely flawed no disputing that, but given the two choices I take the AR. On the other hand I'll take a reputable piston gun over a DI every day of the week and twice on Sunday. 1 gun only DI AR vs AK, I would honestly choose the AK although I'm not a huge AK fan. Actually it would probably be a saiga in .223 or .308 :D

shy 7th
02-15-2012, 3:37 PM
I have one of each.

To echo everyone else, the Sig556 is more like an AK than an AR so this whole comparison is more like "cats vs dog" rather than "lab vs terrier". Also, I have never had any ammo issues whether it be with Wolf, Tula .223 or Federal 5.56.

My $.02:
I like the Sig556's gas-system-action-whatever better. No 'Sproing.' Less parts. Simpler design. Side charging is also a little easier for me.

The piston system keeps all the carbon crap in the piston. It is the easiest gun of all my guns to clean.

If I had to choose one of the two for a bug-out gun (if I couldn't take my .22), I would pick the Sig556. It just seems more robust and lower maintenance.

That said, I will always recommend someone buy an AR15 over the Sig556. Why? Because it's the one they see in the movies. It's the one they recognize. It's iconic. An entry level AR is cheaper. 9 times out of 10, it's the one they really want. And it has an aftermarket larger than the internet porn industry.

nitroxdiver
02-15-2012, 3:41 PM
If I could only have one as you stated, then its simple. A good quality, DI AR from a manufacturer that has a good reputation and a strong warranty. Reason is simple. If I am limited to one, then parts availability and manufacturer support would be critical to me.
Sig will not sell you parts for your rifle you must buy them from a third party company like Colorado gun sales who disassembles rifles and sells the parts at very high prices. You can send your gun into sig to get fixed, but sometimes small things you'd rather do yourself. That said, the 556/551a1 are great rifles in my opinion. I own one and love it, but it wouldn't be my only rifle. Some have had issues, no doubt. Mine hasn't so I am satisfied.
I went 551A1 route as I wanted as close to a 55x clone as I could get. The fit and finish of the 551a1 is IMHO better than the f/f of earlier 556's I have shot and examined. Much tighter reciever fitment, better Swiss stock, better metal finish. Again, jmho. Good luck!

azthig69
02-15-2012, 5:45 PM
If I could only have one as you stated, then its simple. A good quality, DI AR from a manufacturer that has a good reputation and a strong warranty. Reason is simple. If I am limited to one, then parts availability and manufacturer support would be critical to me.
Sig will not sell you parts for your rifle you must buy them from a third party company like Colorado gun sales who disassembles rifles and sells the parts at very high prices. You can send your gun into sig to get fixed, but sometimes small things you'd rather do yourself. That said, the 556/551a1 are great rifles in my opinion. I own one and love it, but it wouldn't be my only rifle. Some have had issues, no doubt. Mine hasn't so I am satisfied.
I went 551A1 route as I wanted as close to a 55x clone as I could get. The fit and finish of the 551a1 is IMHO better than the f/f of earlier 556's I have shot and examined. Much tighter reciever fitment, better Swiss stock, better metal finish. Again, jmho. Good luck!


Things are changing now in Sig USA, if you haven't heard yet, they are
offering real swiss stocks, complete 551 lower, swiss 551 mag for $38, and
the US style lower receiver that accepts AR mag. I guess Sig doesn't
appreciate CGS price gouging. Sig is trying to do their best to win back their
loyal customers. BTW, I'm not in anyway affiliated with Sig, just passing
along the good news..:)

I also love the 551-A1, enjoying mine as well...my favorite rifle so far.

nitroxdiver
02-15-2012, 6:33 PM
azithig69, you are correct sir. Thank you for posting that. Also, I have heard, but have not been able to confirm, that the latest 556's are also tighter than the earlier ones I have examined. And yes, they finally realized that folks are willing to spend 300+$$ at cogunsales, that maybe they ought to just go with a real swiss stock as OEM. Wise choice imho. I am in complete agreement with you on the 551A1. They did it as right as they can, considering they can't just import swiss made rifles. Eventually, I will suck it up and buy a swiss steel lower for my A1 to make it even closer to a swiss rifle. Not necessary by any means, but I am a weirdo about stuff sometimes. I did already do the swiss 551 sight upgrade from cogunsales. That took a big bite out of my *****, but I really really like the sights. Have fun with your rifle!

azthig69
02-15-2012, 7:14 PM
azithig69, you are correct sir. Thank you for posting that. Also, I have heard, but have not been able to confirm, that the latest 556's are also tighter than the earlier ones I have examined. And yes, they finally realized that folks are willing to spend 300+$$ at cogunsales, that maybe they ought to just go with a real swiss stock as OEM. Wise choice imho. I am in complete agreement with you on the 551A1. They did it as right as they can, considering they can't just import swiss made rifles. Eventually, I will suck it up and buy a swiss steel lower for my A1 to make it even closer to a swiss rifle. Not necessary by any means, but I am a weirdo about stuff sometimes. I did already do the swiss 551 sight upgrade from cogunsales. That took a big bite out of my *****, but I really really like the sights. Have fun with your rifle!

Just a heads up, there's a rumor from the 2012 shot show that there's a
chance that Sig USA may finally make a steel lower for the Sig 551A1.
They're just working out licensing issues.

nitroxdiver
02-15-2012, 9:11 PM
I hope they do. The one from cogs is over a grand. Thank you for the Info. First I've heard that. I found a sorce for some sig/San Swiss 5 round mags. Pm me if want the info. They are really nice. Easier to shoot prone with.

azthig69
02-18-2012, 8:43 PM
I have fired one that belongs to my brother in law, and it in fact did NOT shoot any ammo. It was really bad with tula and didn't care for pmc much either. It isn't very acccurate either. Every mfg has a lemon or two. The 556 seems to be pretty hit and miss. In fact there was a thread less than a month ago about someone having ammo problems with their 556. Not to mention complaints about sights, canted rails, screws coming loose. It seems they are gradually working through the isssues. They have some bennefits and they have some downfalls period. Saying it will even eat corrosive ammo is retarded too. Many don't CHOOSE to shoot it due to cleanup. Not because other guns can't


Parts of it lol. It was built fairly solid but it was the least accurate of the 3. Didn't care for the stock or sights either or the case mangling ejection but it had a great trigger and fired everything we fed it. Plus it's a $1000 cheaper. Wasnt perfect overall but it wasnt terrible either. Easy things to upgrade. That said I have a major woody to get my hands on that .308 xcr
...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Colt-45
02-18-2012, 8:46 PM
Thoughts on if you could only have one which would you have and why?

If I have a professional army I want the AR/M4/M16. If I have an insurgent pick up guns and shoot type army I want a SIG556(Ak normally fits that role but AR>AK and SIG556>AK in MY book).

Colt-45
02-18-2012, 8:49 PM
This! The guy saying the SIG is ammo picky is WRONG--these rifles shoot
anything. They are NOT AR accurate but in the real world (NOT accuracy off
a bench with handloads,specialty ammo,super optics,ad nauseum) the
SIG is pretty good. The SIG is just about indestructible(being an AK design)
a lot more robust then your AR. If you are so inclined the SIG requires
little maintenance to keep functioning. It is heavier then the AR but stays on target
very well, if you have the Swiss folding stock you have one of the best
ergonomically made folders in the business,also has an ambi safety,and
uses ALL M16/AR mags. Pete


I like this one:

Sig Swat 5.56(NOT the patrol version)

http://www.shooting-proshop.com/gallery/images/sig-rifles/sig556/556SWAT/556-SWAT-w-diopter.jpg

Noah3683
02-18-2012, 9:45 PM
...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Glad you are taking the time to keep trolling D-bag so I suppose I should update this. First few out of 5 or 6 times I have shot it now we went through about 120 rounds of xm855 and privi just great. Went again, shot close to 300 rds of federal, silver bear, pmc, and tula. Federal and Silver bear were flawless aside from 1 light primer strike on a federal round. Pmc had 4 FTE's out of 60 and tula was short stroking every 2nd or 3rd round. Yesterday only shot 20-30 rds as it was already getting late. Today another 100+ with pmc xtac and all was well. So i will stick to my guns that ALL 556's won't eat all ammo. Just as some Ar's do and some don't.

azthig69
02-18-2012, 9:56 PM
Glad you are taking the time to keep trolling D-bag so I suppose I should update this. First few out of 5 or 6 times I have shot it now we went through about 120 rounds of xm855 and privi just great. Went again, shot close to 300 rds of federal, silver bear, pmc, and tula. Federal and Silver bear were flawless aside from 1 light primer strike on a federal round. Pmc had 4 FTE's out of 60 and tula was short stroking every 2nd or 3rd round. Yesterday only shot 20-30 rds as it was already getting late. Today another 100+ with pmc xtac and all was well. So i will stick to my guns that ALL 556's won't eat all ammo. Just as some Ar's do and some don't.

Just like what I mentioned in another post you remind me of "Gecko45" who use offensive language and personal insults as defense mechanism if someone proves him wrong...:) I will stick to that as well...Hope you don't loose sleep tonight...;)

romeo26
02-18-2012, 10:00 PM
if you want a ar with an ak gas system, you should take a look at pws guns.

Noah3683
02-18-2012, 10:06 PM
You prove nothing by pulling up a post from a month ago and after the first time shooting it. It ran great that day hasn't always since. I put more time into the gun to see if it was really one i wanted to go with and failures happen. I just simply don't care to come update every single time i fire the weapon what my results were. Perhaps i should buy some more tula for Nick let it fail on him, upload the video and then see what bullshat excuse you come up with for the failures. While i'm at it record my acr doing the same thing for those fanboys that claim theirs shoot everything flawless too

Noah3683
02-18-2012, 10:19 PM
Also funny that you mention personal attatcks. I seem to recall some little troll starting with me not liking the 556 simply because I was just jealous of my brother in law.

azthig69
02-18-2012, 10:22 PM
You prove nothing by pulling up a post from a month ago and after the first time shooting it. It ran great that day hasn't always since. I put more time into the gun to see if it was really one i wanted to go with and failures happen. I just simply don't care to come update every single time i fire the weapon what my results were. Perhaps i should buy some more tula for Nick let it fail on him, upload the video and then see what bullshat excuse you come up with for the failures. While i'm at it record my acr doing the same thing for those fanboys that claim theirs shoot everything flawless too


Good! I'm glad that you've learned not to use offensive language like "retarded" and other CRAP. Keep in mind that there are people in this forum who has friends and family members who has the disability. It's sad that there are people like you who's not sensitive about it.

It's all right to disagree but there are ways to say it in a nice and polite way.

Noah3683
02-18-2012, 10:30 PM
Good! I'm glad that you've learned not to use offensive language like "retarded" and other CRAP. Keep in mind that there are people in this forum who has friends and family members who has the disability. It's sad that there are people like you who's not sensitive about it.

It's all right to disagree but there are ways to say it in a nice and polite way.

Ok you are right about that and that is on me. I have a disadvantaged family member as well, but just as the gay word comes up it's not intended in the same way. you did quote the same thing twice with completely different responses though as if you were just simply trying to get under my skin and nothing more. Much as you are doing again lol.

Noah3683
02-18-2012, 10:34 PM
I'll even one up it and extend the olive branch. If you're in SoCal we can arrange it with the Bro in law to meet up and you can witness first hand. Shoot it yourself even..... Provided you come back and post the result truthfully ;)

azthig69
02-18-2012, 10:44 PM
I'll even one up it and extend the olive branch. If you're in SoCal we can arrange it with the Bro in law to meet up and you can witness first hand. Shoot it yourself even..... Provided you come back and post the result truthfully ;)


I've tried shooting corrosive ammo, may sound silly but out of curiosity after hearing other guys who've done it also. I don't recommend shooting crap ammo, just sharing first hand experience.

I appreciate the offer. Thanks! :)

Dhena81
02-18-2012, 11:55 PM
Can you guys please stop crapping on the OP's thread.





I chose AR because that's what I know the best.

NorCalK9.com
02-19-2012, 9:45 AM
@asthi69
Corrosive ammo is not crap! I love that stuff! How can you not like reliable ammo that costs barely more than .22? Btw im referring to 545x39.

james758
02-19-2012, 1:48 PM
I have both. This would be my "go to rifle."
http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/jamesrmat/sig556.jpg

Modularity=AR. AR's are more "modular" than the SIG's. You can change out grips, stocks, forends, buffers, etc until the stars burn out. However, the Sigs are a little more modular than one would think. You can get a folder, but then you have to either not fold it, or get that 5.5 inch flash hider so the OAL is CA legal. I HAVE a side folder lower, but not installed. You can find a lot of cosmetic stuff for the sig like the FH/stock/sights/etc but you won't be changing out the bolt or piston or trigger, partly because you won't find it, and partly because you won't NEED to.

Weight=AR. The AR is a lot lighter. However, You can get the "Patrol" version of the SIG 556 which uses the "pistol length" gas system with does make it a little less front heavy and cuts the weight by a little bit, but not as much at the AR.

Accuracy= AR. Yes you can get 1-2 MOA with a 16" barrel AR WITH match grade ammo, but you are going to be more like 2-4 MOA with the Sig (depending on the ammo). But like many have stated, it is Minute of Man and I hit steel out to 400 with my SIG with NO problems.

Sights=AR. There are so many sights that are available for the AR. The ONE THING that really bothers me about the SIG is that they have to make their sights a different hieght. So if you are going to use stock sights, they will not co-witness with any reflex sights like they will out of the box with a set of AR sights.

Price=??? You can get a new "starter" AR for less than $800, or you could spend as much as $4000. The Sigs are going for $1200 with the quad rail on Riflegear.com. I think the $1200 Sig will be better than the $1200 mid range AR.

Trigger=SIG. If you have every fired a Sig 556, you know that the trigger is as sweet and smooth as a 21 y/o with a brazillian.

Ergonomics=SIG. A lot of people say the Sig is an "un-holy marriage of an AR and an AK" and if you look at the Sig bold and how it mates with the bold carrier, and the location of the charging handle you see a resemblance, but the AK bold looks like it was machined on a vice and a dremmel tool. and the bolt carrier on the Sig separates from the piston, and the springs are in different places, and the Sig bold stays open on the last round. So they may "look" similar, but they are nothing alike.
The mag release, bolt release, and safety on the Sig are all in very familiar locations but side charging handle seems to be in a better location than the charging handle of an AR.

Reliability=SIG. A LOT of people talk about "stocking up on parts" is you get a Sig because they will be hard to find. The truth is that the Sig is built like a tank and you will very likely not need to use any of those spare parts you buy. Its basicly the upper receiver from a SG-551 (US made, NOT swiss made)and mated to a lower that accepts AR mags. The SG-550 series has been around for a LONG time and has seen a lot of action world wide and has a LONG history of being tested.
The AR's have these fancy pants piston kits but the AR was designed to be DI, and converting it is a huge funamental change in its operating design and there is NO standardization in the piston kits. They are ALL proprietary. There are litterally more AR piston designs as there OLL's. I just don't like them.

One thing that I REALLY like about the Sig is that when it spits out brass it sends it out at about your 1:30-2 O'clock. The AR sends it out at about your 3 O'Clock and if you ever sit about 3-4 benches right of an AR, you know what I mean.

There is nothing "Wrong" with an AR, it is America's Black Rifle, and though it has had some teething issues, they are mostly fixed. The AR is iconic, its sexy the way a WW2 Pin-up model is sexy. And EVERYONE has one. When you get an AR, people give you that nod that says "congradulations, you're one of us now, there is no turning back."
But the Sig is more like a BMW than it is like a Ford. Its more of a gentleman's rifle. A little more refined with a pedigree.
The beautiful thing is that there are things about both rifles that are equal but different, and some attributes may not be as important to one person as they are to another, so depending on what you want and what you are using it for decides most which rifle to get. For ME, I go with the Sig, but I can completely understand and respect why someone else chooses an AR.
Amen Brothers and Sisters!!!

MrPlink
02-20-2012, 11:15 AM
Just get an Ak already and be done with it. :43: (ibtl)

hairtumor
04-24-2012, 7:01 PM
I have both. This would be my "go to rifle."
http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad65/jamesrmat/sig556.jpg

Modularity=AR. AR's are more "modular" than the SIG's. You can change out grips, stocks, forends, buffers, etc until the stars burn out. However, the Sigs are a little more modular than one would think. You can get a folder, but then you have to either not fold it, or get that 5.5 inch flash hider so the OAL is CA legal. I HAVE a side folder lower, but not installed. You can find a lot of cosmetic stuff for the sig like the FH/stock/sights/etc but you won't be changing out the bolt or piston or trigger, partly because you won't find it, and partly because you won't NEED to.

Weight=AR. The AR is a lot lighter. However, You can get the "Patrol" version of the SIG 556 which uses the "pistol length" gas system with does make it a little less front heavy and cuts the weight by a little bit, but not as much at the AR.

Accuracy= AR. Yes you can get 1-2 MOA with a 16" barrel AR WITH match grade ammo, but you are going to be more like 2-4 MOA with the Sig (depending on the ammo). But like many have stated, it is Minute of Man and I hit steel out to 400 with my SIG with NO problems.

Sights=AR. There are so many sights that are available for the AR. The ONE THING that really bothers me about the SIG is that they have to make their sights a different hieght. So if you are going to use stock sights, they will not co-witness with any reflex sights like they will out of the box with a set of AR sights.

Price=??? You can get a new "starter" AR for less than $800, or you could spend as much as $4000. The Sigs are going for $1200 with the quad rail on Riflegear.com. I think the $1200 Sig will be better than the $1200 mid range AR.

Trigger=SIG. If you have every fired a Sig 556, you know that the trigger is as sweet and smooth as a 21 y/o with a brazillian.

Ergonomics=SIG. A lot of people say the Sig is an "un-holy marriage of an AR and an AK" and if you look at the Sig bold and how it mates with the bold carrier, and the location of the charging handle you see a resemblance, but the AK bold looks like it was machined on a vice and a dremmel tool. and the bolt carrier on the Sig separates from the piston, and the springs are in different places, and the Sig bold stays open on the last round. So they may "look" similar, but they are nothing alike.
The mag release, bolt release, and safety on the Sig are all in very familiar locations but side charging handle seems to be in a better location than the charging handle of an AR.

Reliability=SIG. A LOT of people talk about "stocking up on parts" is you get a Sig because they will be hard to find. The truth is that the Sig is built like a tank and you will very likely not need to use any of those spare parts you buy. Its basicly the upper receiver from a SG-551 (US made, NOT swiss made)and mated to a lower that accepts AR mags. The SG-550 series has been around for a LONG time and has seen a lot of action world wide and has a LONG history of being tested.
The AR's have these fancy pants piston kits but the AR was designed to be DI, and converting it is a huge funamental change in its operating design and there is NO standardization in the piston kits. They are ALL proprietary. There are litterally more AR piston designs as there OLL's. I just don't like them.

One thing that I REALLY like about the Sig is that when it spits out brass it sends it out at about your 1:30-2 O'clock. The AR sends it out at about your 3 O'Clock and if you ever sit about 3-4 benches right of an AR, you know what I mean.

There is nothing "Wrong" with an AR, it is America's Black Rifle, and though it has had some teething issues, they are mostly fixed. The AR is iconic, its sexy the way a WW2 Pin-up model is sexy. And EVERYONE has one. When you get an AR, people give you that nod that says "congradulations, you're one of us now, there is no turning back."
But the Sig is more like a BMW than it is like a Ford. Its more of a gentleman's rifle. A little more refined with a pedigree.
The beautiful thing is that there are things about both rifles that are equal but different, and some attributes may not be as important to one person as they are to another, so depending on what you want and what you are using it for decides most which rifle to get. For ME, I go with the Sig, but I can completely understand and respect why someone else chooses an AR.
Amen Brothers and Sisters!!!

well said sir :)

Flying Sig
04-24-2012, 7:26 PM
Where is Bongos? He'll set you straight. LOL




.. even Sig acknowledge the accuracy statement) but that said, it will be the most reliable AK type rifle you will ever buy.


No Really Sig556 is a POS when it comes to accuracy (3 MOA @ 100 yds), but that said, it's the best and most expensive AK47 you will ever own;)


I have had at one time three Sig556 and tested it thoroughly and concluded it's the best AK designed gun ever...


Seriously, it's the best AK 47 you will ever buy, 3" groups is within specs
I have no love for the Sig556, personally own two and had a friend's out to test, Accuracy was the worst on this type rifle, you are better off getting a AR, sold the gun at a huge lost and was glad to be rid of it.



.. the Sig556 is probably the best AK variant out there...
...



For AK47 mags. why not, it's already the most AK you can buy, adding AK mags would complete it..



:beatdeadhorse5:

unusedusername
04-24-2012, 7:54 PM
I've got both an AR and a Sig 556. It would be really hard if I had to pick only one.

My 556 is boringly reliable, it hits where I point it, and it is easy to use. Really I don't need much more then that...

My AR is boringly reliable, it hits where I point it, and it is easy to use. Really I don't need much more then that...

The 556 weights a bit more, but it will shoot more ammo between needing a cleaning.

I run them both featureless. The ARs magazine release button is slightly further back on the receiver whereas the 556's button is not in quite the "right" place for my finger. The AR does not have an ambi-safety switch though so the safety is useless on the AR with a grip wrap until it is replaced.