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View Full Version : AR platform - 6.8 spc vs 300 AAC Blackout


mjfast82
02-13-2012, 8:10 AM
Starting my first AR build and trying to figure out what caliber. My primary use will be hunting [coyotes, pig, maybe deer] and having fun punching paper. I have not ruled out the 5.56, but leaning towards a more all around hunting, tactical, target round.

What are your thoughts and experiences?

B. Wong
02-13-2012, 9:01 AM
5.56 is a ton cheaper if you are punching paper and is a great caliber for hitting coyotes and smaller game.

If this is your first AR I'd get in in a 5.56 and see how you like it.

SPECR
02-13-2012, 9:05 AM
I've had good luck with 6.8 on medium sized game such as pig. Accurate and effective to at least 300yds. About a buck a round...much cheaper than 300!

It would be nice to have a second upper to hit the range with ie 5.56 or even 22 rimfire.

russ69
02-13-2012, 9:08 AM
Hunters seem to like the 6.8 SPC.

tomd1584
02-13-2012, 9:37 AM
If I were you, i'd get the LMT MRP platform and get a 5.56 & 6.8/.300 blackout barrels.

That way you can change barrels quckly. the .300blk will even support your same 5.56 PMAGs.

Expensive, but perhaps the way to go.

Bug Splat
02-13-2012, 10:53 AM
I'm going 300blk. Only thing I have to buy new is a barrel. I have a ton of 30rd AR mags that I'd love to use again. I have a ton of 223 brass that can be converted to 300blk and 308 bullets can be bought cheap. For me it looks like it would cost an additional $30 per 1000 to reload above 223. Hardly any difference in cost.

gun toting monkeyboy
02-13-2012, 11:09 AM
6.8 is easier to find than .300 blk. And it seems to be pretty effective out to about 300 yards on game. I would go with the 5.56 just so that you have one, as it is cheaper than either of them. But there is nothing that says you can't have more than one upper...

HBchevelle68
02-13-2012, 1:51 PM
6.8 all the way!

its ballistics are far better than that of the 300 blackout.

I went through the same thought process as you have and compared these 2 calibers as well.

Decided the 6.8 for many reasons but mainly how perfect it is for hunting pig.

HBchevelle68
02-13-2012, 1:52 PM
6.8 is easier to find than .300 blk. And it seems to be pretty effective out to about 300 yards on game. I would go with the 5.56 just so that you have one, as it is cheaper than either of them. But there is nothing that says you can't have more than one upper...

++1

PolishMike
02-13-2012, 1:55 PM
If you can get a suppressor get 300BLK if not, get 6.8
That easy.

robcoe
02-13-2012, 2:01 PM
Starting my first AR build and trying to figure out what caliber. My primary use will be hunting [coyotes, pig, maybe deer] and having fun punching paper. I have not ruled out the 5.56, but leaning towards a more all around hunting, tactical, target round.

What are your thoughts and experiences?

In order I would say

5.56

6.8

.300 AAC

5.56 cause it's dirt cheap compared to the other two.

the main attraction to .300AAC for me is the ability to use an effective suppressor, and this being California I couldn't do that.

I would suggest getting a 5.56 and a 6.8 upper, then down the road(if you leave California or common sense breaks out) get either a .300 upper or a .300 barrel(since IIRC the .300 AAC uses the same magazines, and bolt carrier group as the 5.56)

though you did leave off one of my favorite AR platform rounds, the .50 beowulf

John Browning
02-13-2012, 3:53 PM
For a first, get 5.56. That is a no brainer.

For a second AR, I would suggest a third option...6.5 Grendel/264 LBC. .300 BLK onlt makes sense with a suppressor.

jm13690
02-13-2012, 4:01 PM
If it is just going to be a hunting AR then I say go for 6.5 Grendel or the 6.8 Spc and not the 223.

6.8 Spc II is what you should go for between that and the 300. The 300 was designed for short suppressed barrels. If you go up to a 16" barrel its fine to go 6.8 you won't be disappointed.

McCrown
02-13-2012, 4:36 PM
I would go 6.5 Grendel before 6.8 SPC, but that is just me. The 6.5 G is better for long range, and just as effective as 6.8 SPC closer in.

AyeGuy
02-13-2012, 5:31 PM
I would go 6.5 Grendel before 6.8 SPC, but that is just me. The 6.5 G is better for long range, and just as effective as 6.8 SPC closer in.

Finally, the correct answer! 6.5 Grendel is vastly superior to the 6.8

russ69
02-13-2012, 6:41 PM
Finally, the correct answer! 6.5 Grendel is vastly superior to the 6.8

Yes, except for availability of guns/parts and ammo cost.

tpc13
02-14-2012, 12:51 PM
I'm going with the 6.8 due to ballistics and I already have a 5.56 wanted something larger up to 300 yds

kblack583
02-14-2012, 3:29 PM
I'm going with the 6.8 due to ballistics and I already have a 5.56 wanted something larger up to 300 yds

Good god man. Didn't you read above that the Grendel was "vastly superior".

Hoop
02-14-2012, 4:33 PM
For a first, get 5.56. That is a no brainer.


This.

You can worry about other calibers/wildcats once you know what you are doing.

Tier One Arms
02-14-2012, 4:59 PM
I too would start with a 5.56, with that said, the 300 BLK is going to be the 40 S&W of rifle rounds soon, mark my words, haha. The price of 300 ammo is falling every few months.

Dark Sky Solutions
02-14-2012, 5:02 PM
Personally I would build up the 5.56, buy a 300 blackout barrel and a good Armor's wrench. You can change out your barrel according to what activity you will be doing. Other option is just to build up 2 different uppers.

wash
02-14-2012, 7:06 PM
Swapping bolts between barrels is a bad idea.

If you don't do that, 5.56*45 and .300 AAC are only marginally less expensive than 6.8 SPC II and 6.5 Grendle.

6.8 SPC has better magazines than 6.5 Grendle, it does hit harder at short range and it can be plenty accurate out to 500+ yards but for medium game it's really more of a ~300 yard killer and Grendle doesn't have some kind of afterburner that turns on after 300 yards, out that far energy drops off fast and you have to draw some line to stay humane.

If you want something to wound, Grendle is a better choice for 800 yard shots than 6.8 SPC but an AR in 6.5 Grendle isn't really the best tool for that, if you are regularly taking 500+ yard shots, a bolt action in .308 or similar should be the tool of choice.

AyeGuy
02-15-2012, 9:07 AM
Good god man. Didn't you read above that the Grendel was "vastly superior".

Evidently he didn't.

http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/uploads/Weaponeer/images/2008-02-18_173538_65G_DropChart.jpg

http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/uploads/Weaponeer/images/2008-02-18_173838_65G_Velocity_16.gif

chicoredneck
02-15-2012, 9:34 AM
Unless your one of those guys that like flinging large chunks of lead down range, the 300 blackout is a very subpar hunting cartridge due to it's poor ballistics (under most hunting conditions) . If I had to choose between those two cartridges it would be a no brainer for the 6.8spc. It shoots pleanty flat out to 300 yards (most game is taken under 300 yards) and is pleanty leathal enough for the game you described.

Having said that, if you are not currently an active or experienced hunter I would strongly reccomend buying an AR in 5.56 as you will get much more trigger time for less $$. If you actually get a hunt lined up for some pigs or deer a quality 223 load with a 60gr partition will get the job done if you don't have the cash to upgrade to a larger caliber. It seems a lot of guys buy AR's in calibers other that 5.56 becuase they want to hunt someday, but they never actually get around to it and spend lots of extra cash on expensive ammo in the meantime. I'm not implying your one of those people, by the way.

wash
02-15-2012, 11:16 AM
Evidently he didn't.

http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/uploads/Weaponeer/images/2008-02-18_173538_65G_DropChart.jpg

http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/uploads/Weaponeer/images/2008-02-18_173838_65G_Velocity_16.gif
You must have missed the part where SSA 115 grain SMK factory loads are only scratching the surface of 6.8 SPC performance.

A lot of people like the Barnes TTSX 95 grain, it expands at under 2,000 fps and hand loaded for an SPC II barrel it will easily push 2,800 fps at the muzzle of a 16" barrel. At 2,600 fps it has near 100% weight retention so it's just about perfecty balanced for the 6.8 SPC cartridge.

http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?12152-95-grain-TTSX-terminal-performance...PICS

As far as I can tell, 6.5 Grendle doesn't have a hunting bullet specifically designed to expand at the low velocities it produces. You've just got a bunch of pointy high BC bullets designed for punching paper.

To be fair, the 6.8 SPC line has to be bumped a bit to the right to reflect the higher velocities produced by SPC II chambers with 1 in 11" twist rifling and .300 AAC is going to look a lot like 7.62*39 except bumped to the right a bit due to a slightly higher muzzle velocity. Also a 5.56 with a 77 grain SMK is a weird comparison, as suggested above, a ~60 grain bonded soft point hunting bullet would be more appropriate.

Getting back to the original question, 6.8 SPC was designed to be a bigger bore alternative to 5.56 and use short light bullets at high velocity (that's why the case shoulder is pretty far forward). .300 AAC was designed to shoot big heavy (long) bullets at sub-sonic speeds for supressor use. Since we can't have supressors in CA, if you are going to go big bore ~light bullet, 6.8 SPC was designed to do that and does it better.

pyro3k2
02-15-2012, 12:03 PM
Unless your one of those guys that like flinging large chunks of lead down range, the 300 blackout is a very subpar hunting cartridge due to it's poor ballistics (under most hunting conditions) . If I had to choose between those two cartridges it would be a no brainer for the 6.8spc. It shoots pleanty flat out to 300 yards (most game is taken under 300 yards) and is pleanty leathal enough for the game you described.

Having said that, if you are not currently an active or experienced hunter I would strongly reccomend buying an AR in 5.56 as you will get much more trigger time for less $$. If you actually get a hunt lined up for some pigs or deer a quality 223 load with a 60gr partition will get the job done if you don't have the cash to upgrade to a larger caliber. It seems a lot of guys buy AR's in calibers other that 5.56 becuase they want to hunt someday, but they never actually get around to it and spend lots of extra cash on expensive ammo in the meantime. I'm not implying your one of those people, by the way.

They were not made to do the same job. I thought something similar about the .300blackout until I really started looking into the round. It's primary use is for suppressed short barrelled rifles. Ballistically the .300blackout is amazing for what it's able to so in those rifles. But once you put it in the 16+ unsupressed area is falls short.

chicoredneck
02-15-2012, 1:08 PM
The 300 blackout is a very well designed cartridge for suppressed use however, for hunting is CA there are clearly better options.

GettoPhilosopher
02-15-2012, 1:15 PM
They were not made to do the same job. I thought something similar about the .300blackout until I really started looking into the round. It's primary use is for suppressed short barrelled rifles. Ballistically the .300blackout is amazing for what it's able to so in those rifles. But once you put it in the 16+ unsupressed area is falls short.

This thread interests me. ^_^ I was vaguely looking into a .300 AAC upper from DSA once I start reading. Figured a featureless .30 cal AR I could use with prebans sounded better than 5.56 for HD. (lighter/faster rounds, not the subsonics)

Sounds like the consensus is not so much? Or is that solely as it pertains to hunting?

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

wikioutdoor
02-15-2012, 1:19 PM
The only thing that has brought about 300blk is the high cost of specialty calibers. Now that 6.5 and 6.8 are going to come down I think it will fade away.

I'd much rather have a 6.5 gun if ammo was the same as 556 for when I just want to plink with it.

But a 556 especially in 77 grain buffalo bore will take down a yote no problem. Of the two however for general purpose hunting like pig go 6.8

kblack583
02-15-2012, 2:09 PM
Evidently he didn't.

http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/uploads/Weaponeer/images/2008-02-18_173538_65G_DropChart.jpg

http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/uploads/Weaponeer/images/2008-02-18_173838_65G_Velocity_16.gif

Evidently he did.

So, this is proof of "vastly superior" caliber for hunting? Really? Cmon. Now if you wanted to say a "vastly superior long range paper puncher", I'd say you proved it.

For the sake of this topic its like saying my 12 guage with slugs is vastly superior to my other 12 guage with #2s for shooting ducks because my ballistic calculator says it is!!! You can't live in the vaccum of external ballistics in real world applications. Internal and terminal ballistics are always going to be an important part of the puzzle.

Is the Grendel vastly superior to the 6.8 for hunting where 99.99% of shots are 300 to 400 yards max? Hell no. Is the 6.8 vastly superior to the Grendel for the same? Nope. Honestly, they're pretty damn close give or take a few yards. Does the 6.8 have a better selection of components for hunting. Yes and there is a lot of industry support to keep this selection evolving and expanding.

GettoPhilosopher
02-15-2012, 6:25 PM
Evidently he did.

So, this is proof of "vastly superior" caliber for hunting? Really? Cmon. Now if you wanted to say a "vastly superior long range paper puncher", I'd say you proved it.

For the sake of this topic its like saying my 12 guage with slugs is vastly superior to my other 12 guage with #2s for shooting ducks because my ballistic calculator says it is!!! You can't live in the vaccum of external ballistics in real world applications. Internal and terminal ballistics are always going to be an important part of the puzzle.

Is the Grendel vastly superior to the 6.8 for hunting where 99.99% of shots are 300 to 400 yards max? Hell no. Is the 6.8 vastly superior to the Grendel for the same? Nope. Honestly, they're pretty damn close give or take a few yards. Does the 6.8 have a better selection of components for hunting. Yes and there is a lot of industry support to keep this selection evolving and expanding.

Exactly! Thus, my question. I suck with a handgun (leave them to my wife, she's godlike), so my HD setup is a Saiga 12 and an AR. The AR is obviously a backup, as I doubt I'll need more than 10rds of 00 buck, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

But in my context, I don't want to know trajectories over a few hundred yards, I want to know if a .300 AAC round will be good for hitting someone at 20 yards. :P

tomd1584
02-15-2012, 7:03 PM
Like I said in post #5, get an LMT MRP and you can quick swap all three calibers (5.56, 6.8 and .300blk)
:)

GettoPhilosopher
02-15-2012, 7:22 PM
Like I said in post #5, get an LMT MRP and you can quick swap all three calibers (5.56, 6.8 and .300blk)
:)

I'm pretty sure a $335 DSA .300 BLK upper is much cheaper than a MRP and even cheaper than a MRP barrel. :P

kblack583
02-15-2012, 8:40 PM
Exactly! Thus, my question. I suck with a handgun (leave them to my wife, she's godlike), so my HD setup is a Saiga 12 and an AR. The AR is obviously a backup, as I doubt I'll need more than 10rds of 00 buck, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

But in my context, I don't want to know trajectories over a few hundred yards, I want to know if a .300 AAC round will be good for hitting someone at 20 yards. :P

I just haven't explored the caliber but Im guesing it will do just fine at 20 yards!!! I seem to remember something about 220 grain subsonic loads which would fit that nicely. Hell at 20 yards I think your Saiga 12 would be hard to beat!!

k1dude
02-15-2012, 9:04 PM
Yes, except for availability of guns/parts and ammo cost.

Not true. Grendel parts and ammo are easy to acquire and getting better every day as more manufacturers jump on the bandwagon. Even before SAAMI accepted the Grendel you could easily buy Wolf, AA and Hornady factory ammo for around 65 cents to a buck a shot if you shop the sales. Most all of my LGS's have it in stock and you can find it pretty much everywhere online. Now that SAAMI has accepted the Grendel, look for even more manufacturers to jump on board and prices to begin dropping.

To the OP, IIRC .300 blk is based on the whisper and both were designed as subsonic loads for use with suppressors on humans. They're very short range cartridges designed to be quiet. It isn't a very good hunting round.

The 6.8 SPC II is a far superior hunting round to the .300 blk and is good to around 400 yards. The 6.5 Grendel takes you out to about 800 yards. The Grendel was designed to duplicate the performance of the .308 while still being able to fit into the standard AR-15 platform. It does that and more. It's an outstanding round and would be my personal pick of the 3 mentioned.

pyro3k2
02-15-2012, 10:48 PM
This thread interests me. ^_^ I was vaguely looking into a .300 AAC upper from DSA once I start reading. Figured a featureless .30 cal AR I could use with prebans sounded better than 5.56 for HD. (lighter/faster rounds, not the subsonics)

Sounds like the consensus is not so much? Or is that solely as it pertains to hunting?

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

It terms of the .300blk being a hunting round it would be great actually. Loaded with the correct bullet and it should serve pretty well. The farthest game I've shot at ever was a boar around 70 yards away. The round is rated out around 300 yards or so depending on the loading. From my 1st hand experience and more specifically for my personal usage the .300blk would be a good round.

Where it falls short again is as an all purpose combat round. With the key words being All purpose. It's not a long range cartriage so taking targets out past 400 yards is realistically not going to happen often enough for military use. For the Afghan fighting style of mountain side to mountain side (avg of 500 yards) the .300blk would be a horrible round. But if it was around during the taking of Iraq when the avg. was less than 50 yards it would have been outstanding! Especially out of the short barrelled M4's.

So when all is said and done, look at your style of shooting and hunting and pick the right round for the right job. Either choice of 6.8spc or .300blk will be great. If you ask me which one I would take for my own personal rifle, it would be 7.62x39. Not because it's better but simply because I love my AK to much to use anything else...except 54r.

GettoPhilosopher
02-15-2012, 11:20 PM
Where it falls short again is as an all purpose combat round. With the key words being All purpose. It's not a long range cartriage so taking targets out past 400 yards is realistically not going to happen often enough for military use.

So when all is said and done, look at your style of shooting and hunting and pick the right round for the right job. Either choice of 6.8spc or .300blk will be great. If you ask me which one I would take for my own personal rifle, it would be 7.62x39. Not because it's better but simply because I love my AK to much to use anything else...except 54r.

Right, which was where I was leading. A reloading setup is next for me, but if I'm already reloading 308 and 5.56, then being able to buy a $335 upper, use the same BCG/Bolt/mags, slap the upper on my featureless build, and being able to make my own brass out of 5.56 and use the same .308 bullets.....

Well that's a combo I find hard to match, especially for home/neighborhood defense. And it'll pack more punch than my current 5.56.

k1dude
02-16-2012, 1:04 AM
It terms of the .300blk being a hunting round it would be great actually. Loaded with the correct bullet and it should serve pretty well. The farthest game I've shot at ever was a boar around 70 yards away. The round is rated out around 300 yards or so depending on the loading. From my 1st hand experience and more specifically for my personal usage the .300blk would be a good round.

So when all is said and done, look at your style of shooting and hunting and pick the right round for the right job. Either choice of 6.8spc or .300blk will be great. If you ask me which one I would take for my own personal rifle, it would be 7.62x39. Not because it's better but simply because I love my AK to much to use anything else...except 54r.

IIRC, the .300 blk was designed to duplicate 7.62 x 39 ballistics (up to 150 yards) out of the AR platform in the form of a suppressed SBR. It is considered to be a 200 yard round at best. That limits it's appeal as a hunting round, especially when the 6.8 SPC II and 6.5 Grendel have dramatically better performance even starting at the muzzle. Why choose a hunting round with inferior ballistics at every possible range including the muzzle? And if you only want a hard-hitting short-range hunting round, there are far better choices like the .50 Beowolf or .458 Socom. All the other calibers mentioned have factory loads and factory brass. You don't need to go through the trouble of creating your own brass.

Unless you want to hunt close-up with a suppressed SBR, there are far better choices.

I happen to be a big fan of the .300 Whisper and .300 Blackout. I hope to own one of them in the near future. But NOT as a hunting round. I just wish we lived in a free state where we could own suppressors and SBR's. Then I suspect the .300 blk would be one of my favorite AR's ever. But not for hunting anything other than close-in varmints like racoons.

HBchevelle68
02-16-2012, 9:24 AM
Swapping bolts between barrels is a bad idea.

If you don't do that, 5.56*45 and .300 AAC are only marginally less expensive than 6.8 SPC II and 6.5 Grendle.

6.8 SPC has better magazines than 6.5 Grendle, it does hit harder at short range and it can be plenty accurate out to 500+ yards but for medium game it's really more of a ~300 yard killer and Grendle doesn't have some kind of afterburner that turns on after 300 yards, out that far energy drops off fast and you have to draw some line to stay humane.

If you want something to wound, Grendle is a better choice for 800 yard shots than 6.8 SPC but an AR in 6.5 Grendle isn't really the best tool for that, if you are regularly taking 500+ yard shots, a bolt action in .308 or similar should be the tool of choice.

Best answer so far

pyro3k2
02-16-2012, 11:14 AM
IIRC, the .300 blk was designed to duplicate 7.62 x 39 ballistics (up to 150 yards) out of the AR platform in the form of a suppressed SBR. It is considered to be a 200 yard round at best. That limits it's appeal as a hunting round, especially when the 6.8 SPC II and 6.5 Grendel have dramatically better performance even starting at the muzzle. Why choose a hunting round with inferior ballistics at every possible range including the muzzle? And if you only want a hard-hitting short-range hunting round, there are far better choices like the .50 Beowolf or .458 Socom. All the other calibers mentioned have factory loads and factory brass. You don't need to go through the trouble of creating your own brass.

Unless you want to hunt close-up with a suppressed SBR, there are far better choices.

I happen to be a big fan of the .300 Whisper and .300 Blackout. I hope to own one of them in the near future. But NOT as a hunting round. I just wish we lived in a free state where we could own suppressors and SBR's. Then I suspect the .300 blk would be one of my favorite AR's ever. But not for hunting anything other than close-in varmints like racoons.

true the .300blk is very close ballistically to the 7.62x39. But it's limitations to 200 yards is only using subsonic ammo, the supersonic ammo has an estimated effective range of 460 yards. Needless to say when using the right bullet + shot placement, ect the .300blk can get the job done on medium sized game. I would not use it on dangerous game such as boar but deer shouldn't be an issue. This is all in theory right now, only way to see if it's good is to get it out to the field and take some game.

I have owned several big bore AR uppers such as the .458 and the .450bm and yes both have more energy. But they are far more expensive to shoot and obtain ammo for compaired witht he .300blk. As to 6.8 it's proven itself as a good hunting round and should seriously be considered, the 6.5 will need to start offering hunting loads from the factory if it wants to make it in that community.

k1dude
02-16-2012, 12:35 PM
true the .300blk is very close ballistically to the 7.62x39. But it's limitations to 200 yards is only using subsonic ammo, the supersonic ammo has an estimated effective range of 460 yards. Needless to say when using the right bullet + shot placement, ect the .300blk can get the job done on medium sized game. I would not use it on dangerous game such as boar but deer shouldn't be an issue. This is all in theory right now, only way to see if it's good is to get it out to the field and take some game.

I have owned several big bore AR uppers such as the .458 and the .450bm and yes both have more energy. But they are far more expensive to shoot and obtain ammo for compaired witht he .300blk. As to 6.8 it's proven itself as a good hunting round and should seriously be considered, the 6.5 will need to start offering hunting loads from the factory if it wants to make it in that community.

Interesting. I didn't realize they were loading the blackout to supersonic levels. Do you have a link to any ballistics of loads like that? The .223 cartridge is so small and the .300 bullet so big and heavy, it seems hard to fathom being able to get enough powder in the case to propel the bullet that far with much energy downrange and without a howitzer type trajectory.

The Grendel has some pretty impressive hunting loads if you reload. They've been very successful at taking down boar, deer, antelope, and elk. Expect more factory hunting loads now that the Grendel is in SAAMI. Until those new factory loads become available, there are good factory hunting loads from Wolf and AA. The factory 123gr softpoint from Wolf is good, versitile, and cheap. The factory AA 130gr Swift Scirocco and AA Barnes TSX 120gr are both good for big game. The AA 120gr Nosler ballistic tip is good for light to medium game. Then there's the AA 129gr Hornady SST for medium game. Then there's a whole slew of good factory target loads that are good for varmints and small game. The 6.5 Grendel holds it's own from varmints to big game all the way out to 500 yards and more. Hell, Mark Larue dropped a bull elk in it's tracks at 450 yards with a quartering shot that went through and through.

Bug Splat
02-16-2012, 4:58 PM
Yeah I'm not sure where you guys are getting 200 yards from. Just did the numbers and a 110gr Vmax bullet will stay supersonic out to 600-700 yards. Ballistics look damn close to 6.8spc. Given the choice between the two why would I pick 6.8 when I can use my 30rd mags for 300blk. 300blk can shoot anything between 110gr and 220gr. Do you know how cheap pulled 147gr bullets are? I'm showing a cost of around $220 to load 1000 300blk rounds. Thats DIRT cheap guys. I really don't see how the 6.8 can compare with all that 300blk has going for it.

L2H
02-16-2012, 5:15 PM
Why are we all arguing about getting an AR in this and that caliber? We are all AR lovers. Just fork out the $ and buy one in each caliber. After all, says who that we should only get one AR. End of discussion, period!

k1dude
02-16-2012, 6:28 PM
Yeah I'm not sure where you guys are getting 200 yards from. Just did the numbers and a 110gr Vmax bullet will stay supersonic out to 600-700 yards.

Because according to Hornady's own literature, the .300 when supersonic is a SHORT RANGE cartridge. For comparison, the Hornady .300 supersonic loading at 300 yards only has 622 ft/lbs of energy vs 1127 ft/lbs for the 6.5 Grendel.

Bug Splat
02-16-2012, 6:46 PM
Oh I love the 6.5G. I'd take it over the 6.8 any day of the week but the topic is between the 6.8 and 300blk. From what I see the 300blk is a better 5.56 replacement than the 6.8spc.

*308 bullets are cheap
*5.56/223 is the parent case and easily trimmed. No need to fire-form.
*Uses standard AR15 mags with no loss of capacity
*Uses the same bolt as 5.56
*Can shoot a wide range of bullets from 110gr to 220gr
*Can shoot subsonic and supersonic out of the same gun without adjusting the gas system
*Lower recoil compared to 6.8
*Less powder then 6.8 and 5.56
*Lower pressure
*Lower muzzle flash

John Browning
02-16-2012, 7:13 PM
The 300 BLK forces you to either go subsonic, which penetrate well due to a high SD, but are very inaccurate due to the subsonic velocity, or supersonic with very light .30 cal bullets that do horrible in the wind and penetrate VERY poorly. You have no good options for hunting.

Bug Splat
02-16-2012, 7:23 PM
The 300 BLK forces you to either go subsonic, which penetrate well due to a high SD, but are very inaccurate due to the subsonic velocity, or supersonic with very light .30 cal bullets that do horrible in the wind and penetrate VERY poorly. You have no good options for hunting.

What? 110, 115, 123, 147, 150, 155, 168, 170, 175, 180, 200, 210, 220

I think you could find a good hunting round somewhere in there.

John Browning
02-16-2012, 7:44 PM
What? 110, 115, 123, 147, 150, 155, 168, 170, 175, 180, 200, 210, 220

I think you could find a good hunting round somewhere in there.

You can, you just can't launch them with enough velocity from a 300 BLK. The 150 gr plus bullets that can buck the wind and penetrate move too slow and are inaccurate as a result at very short distances. The bullets you can move quickly at the muzzle shed velocity fast, do terrible in the wind, and don't penetrate. You have to pick from two poor options. Either way, 200 yards is stretching it. That isn't going to cut it for coyotes. Think of how many folks tote the 7.62x39 as a great hunting round...there are not many.

6.8 is in a whole different realm than the BLK.

bernieb90
02-17-2012, 12:22 AM
300 BLK works just fine with supersonic loads out to 300yds. Both 6.8 SPC and .300 BLK will kill deer just fine at that range.

http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/9338/300blk300small.jpg.

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/7161/300aacblkbarriersummary.jpg

chicoredneck
02-17-2012, 4:43 AM
Is the 300AAC a suitable hunting cartridge? Of course it is. Is it the best option? If you hunt supressed with an AR it may be, otherwise it is clearly outclassed by other calibers. By choosing to take the 300 blackout into the field the hunter is imparting limitations on himself that he would not otherwise have with a ballistically more capable cartridge.

The ballistics tests sited above were with the cartridge's best supersonic penetrating hunting round available and it barely penetrated 20". If you were to shoot an animal in the shoulder the bullet would have to penetrate thick hide, hair, and bones. Your looking at a realistic penetration depth that may be as low as 16". For an all copper expanding bullet that is pathetic performance when compared to its peers. If you had an animal you were shooting at a hard angle that round will have trouble penetrating deep enough to reach the vitals. Without a cns shot the animal is probably going to run off. With an animal like a feral hog that may not bleed much having only an entance wound can make it difficult to track into the brush and recover your game after the shot. On top of that it's low speed and extremely poor BC will make it difficult to make hits at 300 yards in real field conditions for most hunters. Most guys have a hard enough time making hits on game a 300 yards in the field even with more suitable cartridges.

Will it work? Yes. Is it better as a hunting round than the 6.8spc? That depends on your criteria. For most the answer would be no. It would be a handicap. Although, the 6.8spc is only marginally better than the 300 blackout as a hunting round.

chicoredneck
02-17-2012, 4:44 AM
I actually hunt on a regular basis with an AR15 as well as other rifles and have killed a very large number of feral pigs as well as a number of deer and coyotes. My advice comes from experience, not speculation.

kblack583
02-17-2012, 9:06 AM
300 BLK works just fine with supersonic loads out to 300yds. Both 6.8 SPC and .300 BLK will kill deer just fine at that range.

http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/9338/300blk300small.jpg.

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/7161/300aacblkbarriersummary.jpg

Is it just me or is that a sexy looking cartridge?

k1dude
02-17-2012, 10:48 AM
Is it just me or is that a sexy looking cartridge?

Yes it is.

tpc13
02-17-2012, 8:34 PM
Well info sure is out there. I just hope that the 6.5 and the 6.8 ammo are out there for a very long time, or I'll have to reload. The best I can find is 12.99 for grendel and about 18-20 for 6.8. It gonna come down two distance of my shot that will make my choice. I think the 300 is out. 6.5 might be best at this point.

pyro3k2
02-17-2012, 10:30 PM
Why are we all arguing about getting an AR in this and that caliber? We are all AR lovers. Just fork out the $ and buy one in each caliber. After all, says who that we should only get one AR. End of discussion, period!

This has never been about X being better than Y, but more along the lines of which one is the better tool for the job. And I agree 100% buy both, be happy, and go shoot some **** :43:.

Interesting. I didn't realize they were loading the blackout to supersonic levels. Do you have a link to any ballistics of loads like that? The .223 cartridge is so small and the .300 bullet so big and heavy, it seems hard to fathom being able to get enough powder in the case to propel the bullet that far with much energy downrange and without a howitzer type trajectory.

The Grendel has some pretty impressive hunting loads if you reload. They've been very successful at taking down boar, deer, antelope, and elk. Expect more factory hunting loads now that the Grendel is in SAAMI. Until those new factory loads become available, there are good factory hunting loads from Wolf and AA. The factory 123gr softpoint from Wolf is good, versitile, and cheap. The factory AA 130gr Swift Scirocco and AA Barnes TSX 120gr are both good for big game. The AA 120gr Nosler ballistic tip is good for light to medium game. Then there's the AA 129gr Hornady SST for medium game. Then there's a whole slew of good factory target loads that are good for varmints and small game. The 6.5 Grendel holds it's own from varmints to big game all the way out to 500 yards and more. Hell, Mark Larue dropped a bull elk in it's tracks at 450 yards with a quartering shot that went through and through.

There is a graph to the supersonic loads floating around out there, but I can't for the life of me find it right now. There are a ton of data points but very few charts. The .300blk never claimed to be a flat shooting round past 100 yards so i'm not going to hold it against it. But it's probably like the .450bm, .458sc and 50bw it probably drops like a rock past 250 yards.

G38xOC
02-20-2012, 8:36 PM
is it true that i can make this brass out of 223 brass using 300aac die ?

anyone reloading these rounds yet ?

G38xOC
02-20-2012, 8:36 PM
is it true that i can make this brass out of 223 brass using 300aac die ?

anyone reloading these rounds yet ?

FFShooter23
02-20-2012, 9:08 PM
^^ Yes, .223/5.56 is the parent case. It's a little time consuming but it's cheap to make.

mjfast82
02-20-2012, 9:14 PM
Thanks for all the feedback. I definitely have thought of eventually buying both a 556 and 6.8 upper. That would solve many problems regarding cost of shooting.

My only problem is getting my wife to see that is the best option out.there ;)

Tango Sauce
04-14-2012, 11:29 PM
You've made a good choice.

The 300BLK is only advantageous if you're shooting suppressed and/or SBR. In CA, you're most likely shooting neither! If you build a pistol, sure thing.

I bought a 6.8ARP recently to compliment my 5.56 rifles. It's an excellent hunting round with better ballistics than the 300BLK and better penetration that 6.5G. If you want a 1,000 yard round then buy a .308.

Some great comments above btw.

m98
04-14-2012, 11:48 PM
if this is your first, i'd reccommend 556. then 6.8. 300blk is only for the tacticoolness cuz we cant have real cans here.

Droppin Deuces
04-15-2012, 1:34 AM
Is this (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_219/164444_Elk______Pics__pg__2_and_8_____LaRue_s_Grea t_American_Safari_.html&page=1) a good size kill for a 6.5 Grendel at 400 yards? I don't hunt so I have no idea, but I came across that while researching the round recently. A 6.5 Grendel upper is next on my list for "punching paper."
I don't know if it's a good choice if you aren't a reloader, though. The brass is twice the cost of a 5.56 round.

pyro3k2
04-15-2012, 11:19 AM
if your taret is within 300 yards you have no real reason to pick 5.56 over .300blk. But if your target is between 300 yards and 550 yards pick 6.8spc. If your target is past 550 yards then .308

Tango Sauce
04-15-2012, 12:51 PM
Is this (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_219/164444_Elk______Pics__pg__2_and_8_____LaRue_s_Grea t_American_Safari_.html&page=1) a good size kill for a 6.5 Grendel at 400 yards? I don't hunt so I have no idea, but I came across that while researching the round recently. A 6.5 Grendel upper is next on my list for "punching paper."
I don't know if it's a good choice if you aren't a reloader, though. The brass is twice the cost of a 5.56 round.

Yeah, that's a good kill at 400. A 6.8 would also likely make that shot. If it were at say 600 yards, the 6.5G would have the advantage.

But again, in my humble opinion after many many hours of research, the .308 would be a better choice in those further distances for several reasons. Availability of ammo, ability to condense ammo usage with other firearms including bolt actions, etc etc. If you want to hunt with an AR, then weight would be a consideration too giving 6.5G a few pound edge. TBH, I'd be hunting long-range with a bolt gun.

gun toting monkeyboy
04-15-2012, 9:28 PM
Is this (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_219/164444_Elk______Pics__pg__2_and_8_____LaRue_s_Grea t_American_Safari_.html&page=1) a good size kill for a 6.5 Grendel at 400 yards? I don't hunt so I have no idea, but I came across that while researching the round recently. A 6.5 Grendel upper is next on my list for "punching paper."
I don't know if it's a good choice if you aren't a reloader, though. The brass is twice the cost of a 5.56 round.

No, it is NOT a good sized kill for 6.5 at 400 yards. It is a slob hunter who took a shot he shouldn't have at something that was way too far away, and got lucky. I don't give a crap if he was Daniel Boone. Using a light-for-bore-sized bullet at over 400 yards out of an intermediate cartridge on a full-grown elk is just asking for a wounded animal. I am not impressed with him or his shot. That was unethical BS. He should be ashamed, not congratulated.

-Mb

GettoPhilosopher
04-16-2012, 12:51 PM
No, it is NOT a good sized kill for 6.5 at 400 yards. It is a slob hunter who took a shot he shouldn't have at something that was way too far away, and got lucky. I don't give a crap if he was Daniel Boone. Using a light-for-bore-sized bullet at over 400 yards out of an intermediate cartridge on a full-grown elk is just asking for a wounded animal. I am not impressed with him or his shot. That was unethical BS. He should be ashamed, not congratulated.

-Mb

Somehow I doubt that considering who the shooter is. Shrugs.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

gun toting monkeyboy
04-17-2012, 11:13 AM
Somehow I doubt that considering who the shooter is. Shrugs.


I don't think it matters. I think that it is a stunt more than something that should be attempted for ethical reasons. How is this any different than an Olympic shooter going out and popping an elephant between the eyes with a .22 LR? Sure, they have the skill. And they killed the elephant. But does their success cancel out the ethical issues involved just because they actually did it? As a hunter it is important for the sport to use enough gun for the situation. At that range, the terminal ballistics against such a large animal leave way too much potential for wounding instead of killing. That, more than anything, is what bothers me.

-Mb

aktiveradio
03-17-2013, 7:30 AM
So can you fire a 6.8 spc in a 300 blk upper?