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View Full Version : Un-paid Parking Ticket = No gun?!


TheSacramentoKid
02-11-2012, 3:39 PM
Today was my pick up date for my new firearm. I was so excited to pick it up after the crazy 10 day wait period, and was shocked when they said that they couldn't release the firearm because of invalid CDL! Even if it had a hold on it isn't it still atleast a form of ID?! I feel like my 2nd amendment rights have been violated! I am not a felon so why can't I get my firearm?!

ke6guj
02-11-2012, 3:46 PM
you have to have a valid CA ID or DL. If you have unpaid parking tickets, then CA DMV can suspend your DL and it isn't valid anymore. Pay your tickets or get a CA ID (that won't be suspended like your DL is).

philobeddoe
02-11-2012, 3:48 PM
Are you saying they wouldn't accept it as valid identification, or you were denied pickup because of an invalid/suspended CDL?

I keep a passport handy and use it, since the CDL isn't permitted to establish residence anyway, you still have to provide a utility bill.

Is it a pistol or long gun?

ke6guj
02-11-2012, 3:53 PM
what does a passport do for you? It does not show that you are a CA resident, which is a requirement to purchase a firearm in CA.

626Tony
02-11-2012, 3:55 PM
Plus 1 for getting a emergency ID from the DMV

paul0660
02-11-2012, 3:58 PM
I don't have mine handy, but a passport shows place of birth not residence.

TheSacramentoKid
02-11-2012, 3:59 PM
I was getting a shotgun. They denied it because of it coming up as invalid, and they didn't give a reason why. I have to talk to the DMV about it. I would think that the CDL in combination with the Social Sec. Card that I provided and the ATM card I used to pay would be ID enough!

ke6guj
02-11-2012, 4:02 PM
social security card and ATM card aren't valid ID.

And unfortunately, an expired or suspended CDL isn't a valid ID either.

philobeddoe
02-11-2012, 4:02 PM
it doesn't establish birthplace, only US citizenship and valid identification,
for a handgun transfer the FFL always requires I show a utility bill or some such nonsense to prove I live in CA, they don't accept the CDL as 'residence' either apparently, only for ID purposes

paul0660
02-11-2012, 4:06 PM
I was getting a shotgun. They denied it because of it coming up as invalid, and they didn't give a reason why. I have to talk to the DMV about it. I would think that the CDL in combination with the Social Sec. Card that I provided and the ATM card I used to pay would be ID enough!


You knew the reason.

These are dumb laws.
And not hard to follow.

Jeepers
02-11-2012, 4:13 PM
ok i have both a CDL and state I.D. and both use the same I.D. # so whats the difference ? if my CDL gets revoked or suspended the same # still shows i am a cali resident just cant drive legally :confused:

Agent Orange
02-11-2012, 4:30 PM
Kinda makes you wish that ticket had gotten paid huh?

gl0ckc0ma
02-11-2012, 4:39 PM
I kinda went through a similar dilemma but it wasn't me who got the ticket, someone used my name and the PD, from what I gathhered assumed my DOB.

Here is my thread on what happenned, it took me a month to finally get my gun out of jail. At least I now have a document stating that if the DOJ ever decides to refuse my 2A they will be breaking the law and be in contempt of court.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=422882

SVT-40
02-11-2012, 5:05 PM
Total BS by the O/P.

California does not suspend or revoke anyone's drivers license because of "unpaid parking tickets".

If one does not pay a parking ticket the fine goes to DMV and is eventually applied to future registration fees for the vehicle in question.

If your drivers license was suspended or revoked or it just flat expired you certainly know why and should be responsible and stop blaming others for your issues.

I kinda went through a similar dilemma but it wasn't me who got the ticket, someone used my name and the PD, from what I gathhered assumed my DOB.

Here is my thread on what happenned, it took me a month to finally get my gun out of jail. At least I now have a document stating that if the DOJ ever decides to refuse my 2A they will be breaking the law and be in contempt of court.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=422882

"At least I now have a document stating that if the DOJ ever decides to refuse my 2A they will be breaking the law and be in contempt of court."


HaHaHaHaHa :rofl2: :nuts:

Thanks Calguns for my daily laugh.

DOJ didn't do anything to you. Some scum friend who knew all your information did.

Contempt of court.......:rofl:

SilverTauron
02-11-2012, 5:59 PM
Events like this are why a "background check" is bad news for gun owners. All it takes is one letter in the wrong box or a department that doesn't get paid and bam-no gun for you!

The practice of suspending licenses for traffic tickets is not unusual. In Chicago, if you accrue more than ten parking tickets your information is forwarded to the Secretary of State and your DL will be suspended until the Chicago Department of Revenue gets their money.


As far as firearms goes , in New York City an unpaid parking citation counts as grounds for denial of a city pistol permit.Its petty, but the point is clear-the government doesn't want you armed. Don't give the bureaucrats rope to hang your rights with.Leave, or play by the rules.

BigDogatPlay
02-11-2012, 6:12 PM
+1 to what SVT-40 said. Unpaid parking tickets typically won't suspend your DL, but DMW will not renew it if there are unpaid parking tickets on file. When you do renew, DMV collects the unpaid fine on behalf of the issuing court.

Unpaid parking tickets can, however, turn into an arrest warrant. Any arrest warrant that pops when the background check is done = 'fugitive from justice', and as such ineligible to transfer a firearm.

If the OP had an active warrant when he filled out the 4473 and answered "No" to the 'are you a fugitive from justice' question, the door is opened to federal sanction for making a false statement under penalty of perjury. Hopefully nothing comes of it, but there it is.

The OP should contact DMV and the court which holds the parking ticket(s) ASAP and get it cleared up. The lesson here... don't ignore a ticket.

gl0ckc0ma
02-11-2012, 6:24 PM
"At least I now have a document stating that if the DOJ ever decides to refuse my 2A they will be breaking the law and be in contempt of court."


HaHaHaHaHa :rofl2: :nuts:

Thanks Calguns for my daily laugh.

DOJ didn't do anything to you. Some scum friend who knew all your information did.

Contempt of court.......:rofl:

No B*llsh*t, it states on the document that if any DOJ agent denies my ability to aquire a firearm will be breaking the law and will be in contempt of court. I will see if I could find it, scan it and post it for you.

Oh and if you have unpaid tickets (traffic not parking) and do not follow through, you will have a warrant for your arrest, and that is what they will deny you for, an outstanding warrant, I am pretty sure you dont get a suspended liscence for parking tickets, they will try to deny you when you try to register your car until parking tickets are paid.

dantodd
02-11-2012, 6:43 PM
If the OP had an active warrant when he filled out the 4473 and answered "No" to the 'are you a fugitive from justice' question, the door is opened to federal sanction for making a false statement under penalty of perjury. Hopefully nothing comes of it, but there it is.


Perjury is a crime which requires mens rea. I doubt you could prove the OP knew he had a warrant even if he did, which is not clear.

SVT-40
02-11-2012, 6:43 PM
No B*llsh*t, it states on the document that if any DOJ agent denies my ability to aquire a firearm will be breaking the law and will be in contempt of court. I will see if I could find it, scan it and post it for you.

Oh and if you have unpaid tickets (traffic not parking) and do not follow through, you will have a warrant for your arrest, and that is what they will deny you for, an outstanding warrant, I am pretty sure you dont get a suspended liscence for parking tickets, they will try to deny you when you try to register your car until parking tickets are paid.

"Agents" don't deny anyone's ability to buy a firearm.

Good luck with that if it happens again. Because no judge can issue any order which prohibits future actions based on different or new circumstance.

I worked in the criminal justice system for 30 years. I took many many hundreds, if not thousands of folks to jail for warrants related to FTA's on traffic citations. Everyone had a "excuse" but few were real valid excuses.

Absolutely, if you have outstanding real traffic citations the DMV will suspend your license. But not for "parking citations".

Rightly so, if you can't show up for your citations you deserve to have your license suspended.

Keep your house in order and you can do as you please without fear of denial. Be a SH*t bird and risk denial.

NSR500
02-11-2012, 6:48 PM
Meh...

Nobody likes the laws, but you have to follow them because they're in place. It's your fault for not having your life in order and getting a DMV reject on your DROS.

SVT-40
02-11-2012, 6:49 PM
His denial was for having a invalid or suspended license. When a DROS is filed if the license you use is not valid the DROS will be denided.

If you have a California ID card and the FFL enters the info as a "ID" card and not a license the DROS will proceed.

Even though the numbers are the same the DROS requires a choice between a "drivers license" and a "Identification card". If the FFL enetrs the info as a DL and the DL is suspended, revoked or expired the DROS will be rejected as the document which the applicants identification is based upon is invalid.

If one also has a California ID card and the FFL enters the DROS using the ID card then the DROS will proceed even if that same person has a suspended, revoked or expired DL.

dantodd
02-11-2012, 6:57 PM
His denial was for having a invalid or suspended license. When a DROS is filed if the license you use is not valid the DROS will be denided.

If you have a California ID card and the FFL enters the info as a "ID" card and not a license the DROS will proceed.

Even though the numbers are the same the DROS requires a choice between a "drivers license" and a "Identification card". If the FFL enetrs the info as a DL and the DL is suspended, revoked or expired the DROS will be rejected as the document which the applicants identification is based upon is invalid.

If one also has a California ID card and the FFL enters the DROS using the ID card then the DROS will proceed even if that same person has a suspended, revoked or expired DL.

I think you quoted one post and responded to a different one

doug-y-doug
02-11-2012, 7:40 PM
Unpaid parking tickets can, however, turn into an arrest warrant.

What? For parking tickets? I used to get parking tickets and not pay them all the time... until they started showing up on my credit report. Then it was a mad dash to try and figure out how to pay them as soon as possible. But arrests? Really?

dctex99
02-11-2012, 7:45 PM
This guy is going to jail bigtime;;maybe prison....lol

BigDogatPlay
02-11-2012, 9:42 PM
What? For parking tickets? I used to get parking tickets and not pay them all the time... until they started showing up on my credit report. Then it was a mad dash to try and figure out how to pay them as soon as possible. But arrests? Really?

Yes really... used to arrest people and release them with a promise to appear, another ticket, back in the day. When I was first getting into the business in the late 70's officers would take warrant folders out for their beat and spend whatever slack time they had going to people's houses to serve them. Since it was Marin County, lots of those warrants were for parking tickets out of San Francisco.

Counties and cities outsourcing their parking fines to civil collection, and the time and effort it takes to process the bajillions of unpaid parking tickets, has done away with a lot of that.

Originally Posted by dantodd
Perjury is a time which requires mens rea. I doubt you could prove the OP knew he had a warrant even if he did, which is not clear.

Agreed, it's not entirely clear. However it's still a question on the 4473, and signing the 4473 is a declaration under penalty of perjury. The OP headed up the thread with "Unpaid Parking Ticket = No gun?!". Clearly he may have had an idea that issue might be out there for him, if it was, otherwise why mention it?

dantodd
02-11-2012, 9:53 PM
Agreed, it's not entirely clear. However it's still a question on the 4473, and signing the 4473 is a declaration under penalty of perjury. The OP headed up the thread with "Unpaid Parking Ticket = No gun?!". Clearly he may have had an idea that issue might be out there for him, if it was, otherwise why mention it?

Knowing you have past due parking tickets is a far cry from believing you are a "fugitive from justice."

Jack L
02-12-2012, 8:09 AM
you have to have a valid CA ID or DL. If you have unpaid parking tickets, then CA DMV can suspend your DL and it isn't valid anymore. Pay your tickets or get a CA ID (that won't be suspended like your DL is).

For you old farts.........the CA ID is free if you are 63 or older and is good for 10 years.

tenpercentfirearms
02-12-2012, 9:19 AM
His denial was for having a invalid or suspended license. When a DROS is filed if the license you use is not valid the DROS will be denided.

If you have a California ID card and the FFL enters the info as a "ID" card and not a license the DROS will proceed.

Even though the numbers are the same the DROS requires a choice between a "drivers license" and a "Identification card". If the FFL enetrs the info as a DL and the DL is suspended, revoked or expired the DROS will be rejected as the document which the applicants identification is based upon is invalid.

If one also has a California ID card and the FFL enters the DROS using the ID card then the DROS will proceed even if that same person has a suspended, revoked or expired DL.
I would like to actually try this because I suspect it might not work. For those of you with CA ID and CA DL, are the numbers actually the same?

I know the CA DOJ and CA DMV have stepped up their game because even if you renew your license and only have a paper license, they know! They will DMV reject you until you actually get your hard copy in the mail (or at least it ships). This I know from two different customers having this experience.

So if the numbers don't match, I don't think that pull down screen is going to get you off the hook. Plus, if it isn't an ID and it is a DL and you put it is an ID, are you committing perjury if you know it isn't an ID?

As to most of the other banter at the start of this thread, it is pretty simply. You must have a valid CA ID or CA DL to DROS. Period. That is it. Those are the rules. Birth certificates, passports, social security cards, ATM Cards, and anything else I list other than a valid CA ID or valid CA DL (exception military ID with duty station orders) will not work.

fonso
02-12-2012, 10:24 AM
I would like to actually try this because I suspect it might not work. For those of you with CA ID and CA DL, are the numbers actually the same?

It DOES work. I have both, and they have the same number.

One is entitled "California Driver License" and the other "Senior Citizen Identification Card."

The reason I have both is because my DL has my PO Box address (which is NOT acceptable as proof of my residence address) and my ID has my residence address (which serves as one form proof of my residence address).

oldsmoboat
02-12-2012, 11:58 AM
I have both the ID and Drivers License and they are the same number.

Lives_In_Fresno
02-12-2012, 12:02 PM
I find it interesting that the FFL apparently started the DROS using the same ID that is now not valid....Hmmmm

HBrebel
02-12-2012, 1:01 PM
Today was my pick up date for my new firearm. I was so excited to pick it up after the crazy 10 day wait period, and was shocked when they said that they couldn't release the firearm because of invalid CDL! Even if it had a hold on it isn't it still atleast a form of ID?! I feel like my 2nd amendment rights have been violated! I am not a felon so why can't I get my firearm?!

If you live in the U.S. and own a firearm, your 2A rights are being violated daily. Think "shall not be infringed"

SVT-40
02-12-2012, 3:10 PM
I would like to actually try this because I suspect it might not work. For those of you with CA ID and CA DL, are the numbers actually the same?

Yup, they are the same always have been. Thats why it's critical for FFL's to choose the proper choice when entering DROS information.

The only time one would ever have a different number in California is if you had an "Index" number. Now you would probably never know the number as it's a number issued by DMV to a person who has no drivers license or Identification card. Index numbers appear as regular DL or ID numbers however always start with the letter "X". Thats to distinguish the number from a valid ID or DL number.

It's more for record keeping and tracking someone who does not have either a DL or ID card issued to them. Once a person with a "Index" number gets a real DL or ID card then the index number would also show on their DMV history however the new DL or ID number would become their official number on their DL or ID card.

G60
02-12-2012, 4:24 PM
I find it interesting that the FFL apparently started the DROS using the same ID that is now not valid....Hmmmm

What's so interesting about it?

dfletcher
02-12-2012, 7:32 PM
I find it interesting that the FFL apparently started the DROS using the same ID that is now not valid....Hmmmm

Given all the paperwork that needs to be done and that some FFLs are a touch challenged in that regard it doesn't surprise me one bit. Also, we don't know for certain whether the FFL in question mentioned it to the buyer when the paperwork was begun.

Other than that, if "interesting" is supposed to be interpreted as nefarious I'm at a loss as to why that might be so. I doubt the FFL wants the hassle of a gun stuck at his store or a deal delayed.

problemchild
02-12-2012, 7:48 PM
social security card and ATM card aren't valid ID.

And unfortunately, an expired or suspended CDL isn't a valid ID either.

Wait but I can do anything I want with a Matricula Consular De Mexico ID card.

I can buy a house
Get a bank loan
Get a job
Drive a car
Get insurance
Go to college
Get grants and loans at college
Get medical treatment
Get welfare
Get child support
Get free food
Get free housing

And so on............

Cokebottle
02-12-2012, 8:03 PM
If one does not pay a parking ticket the fine goes to DMV and is eventually applied to future registration fees for the vehicle in question.
Or they'll snag your state tax refund.
That's what happened to the step daughter.
She had unpaid parking tickets, and after an accident totaled the car (jaywalker jumped in front of her, no charges pressed) she just told the Long Beach PD impound yard to keep it after retrieving her personal items.

She didn't replace the car... DMV snagged her refund the next year.

TheSacramentoKid
02-12-2012, 8:55 PM
I didn't know I had a ticket or warrant!! The only thing I could think of was a parking ticket it was a red light ticket, which I never got!! It must have been someone else driving my car! Court here I come!!! Sorry about making the thread! I was just kind of shocked and riled up!!

SVT-40
02-12-2012, 10:07 PM
I find it interesting that the FFL apparently started the DROS using the same ID that is now not valid....Hmmmm

There is no way a FFL would know that the buyer had a suspended or revoked license when starting a DROS.



Now if it was just expired thats a different story.....

dantodd
02-12-2012, 11:10 PM
I didn't know I had a ticket or warrant!! The only thing I could think of was a parking ticket or something that a family or friend got while driving my car. I talked to my dad who is LEO and he ran my ID, I couldn't wait for the DMV. He said it was a red light ticket, which I never got!! It must have been someone else driving my car! Court here I come!!! Sorry about making the thread! I was just kind of shocked and riled up!!

In many jurisdictions red light camera tickets are nearly completely unenforcable.

L.A. http://abcnews.go.com/US/red-light-cameras-ticket-fines-voluntary/t/story?id=14176755
Sacto http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/27/2715.asp

tenpercentfirearms
02-14-2012, 6:41 AM
Are you admitting, in a public forum, that a LEO looked up someone's personal information as a favor, outside the scope of his duties? And that you conspired with that LEO (your dad)? Question for the legal experts: how many misdemeanors and felonies do you see here?

Let's hope you made that up. If you didn't, then please quickly delete your post, and ask the moderators to delete all the followups to it.

Remember: If you are in a hole, stop digging.

Relax. No one cares but you.

corcoraj2002
02-14-2012, 2:49 PM
Just as a note. I went to collect my AR15 lower today. I have a suspended license, due to a medical condition. He marked my ID as a driving license not a CA ID. Even though my licesnse is suspended it still passed. This is not a restricted license, ala DUI, but a full suspension till I pass a medical exam.

Just my 0.02 cents.

knerona
02-14-2012, 2:55 PM
ok i have both a CDL and state I.D. and both use the same I.D. # so whats the difference ? if my CDL gets revoked or suspended the same # still shows i am a cali resident just cant drive legally :confused:

A CA DL is just a drivers license, though it can be accepted as a legal form of CA ID it still is not one. So when it gets suspended or expired, it's no longer valid for any use.

For you old farts.........the CA ID is free if you are 63 or older and is good for 10 years.

62 years or older, don't make them wait one more year!! =P I've been telling my mom to go get one since she turned that age, how often you get from stuff from the DMV? LOL

paul0660
02-14-2012, 3:00 PM
Relax. No one cares but you.

Except he borrowed my shovel, and I want it back.

stix213
02-14-2012, 3:32 PM
I didn't know I had a ticket or warrant!! The only thing I could think of was a parking ticket or something that a family or friend got while driving my car. I talked to my dad who is LEO and he ran my ID, I couldn't wait for the DMV. He said it was a red light ticket, which I never got!! It must have been someone else driving my car! Court here I come!!! Sorry about making the thread! I was just kind of shocked and riled up!!

:rolleyes:

* Don't let other people drive your car
* If your license was suspended, you should have received something in the mail. Either with regard to the original ticket or with regard to actually revoking your license.

I simply don't believe you could have zero knowledge of something like this, but whatever

blazeaglory
02-14-2012, 6:30 PM
You have to get sooooo many parking tickets to have it go to warrant, if it ever does. In orange county anyways. Ive had MULTIPLE parking tickets that I refuse to pay based on principal...long story. Anyways. Never a warrant. Its been over 4 years now.

Now TRAFFIC tickets are a different story. A failure to appear will get you in deep doodoo

Wrangler John
02-15-2012, 4:43 AM
Are you admitting, in a public forum, that a LEO looked up someone's personal information as a favor, outside the scope of his duties? And that you conspired with that LEO (your dad)? Question for the legal experts: how many misdemeanors and felonies do you see here?

Let's hope you made that up. If you didn't, then please quickly delete your post, and ask the moderators to delete all the followups to it.

Remember: If you are in a hole, stop digging.

Won't work to delete the post, Google probably already has it stored and ready to regurgitate upon a search. Everything posted on almost any forum is archived by Google.

tenpercentfirearms
02-15-2012, 8:44 AM
Just as a note. I went to collect my AR15 lower today. I have a suspended license, due to a medical condition. He marked my ID as a driving license not a CA ID. Even though my licesnse is suspended it still passed. This is not a restricted license, ala DUI, but a full suspension till I pass a medical exam.

Just my 0.02 cents.

Was your license suspended before or after DROS? They usually are pretty good about denying such things so I am naturally suspicious of your claim.

Mesa Tactical
02-15-2012, 9:22 AM
Now TRAFFIC tickets are a different story. A failure to appear will get you in deep doodoo

I have watched a judge send people to jail for failure to appear. The poor bastards had no idea what was going to happen to them. Bailiff just came over and took them away. Hilarious.

If you commit a misdemeanor of some sort, it's viewed by the judge as a minor stepping over the line and processed in a routine way. But failure to appear and driving on a suspended license is like giving the finger to the court, and the judges do not like getting the bird from miscreants (seen a judge send people to jail for driving on a suspended license, too).

Show up for your hearings, pay your fines, follow your probation orders, do what the court tells you to do, to prevent unnecessary (and potentially hilarious, for the folks in the gallery) drama.

chead
02-15-2012, 10:43 AM
My first gun purchase was delayed because I had a ticket I didn't know about.

corcoraj2002
02-15-2012, 12:38 PM
Was your license suspended before or after DROS? They usually are pretty good about denying such things so I am naturally suspicious of your claim.

Wayyyyy before. Suspended Oct 2011, started the dros 11 days ago. I mentioned it to the FFL as I had read this post. He scrachted out DRIVERS LICENSE and in pen wrote IDENTIFICATION on the processed DROS form for his records.

It was not suspended for any legal (i.e. DUI or whatever) but due to me being diabetic and having a hypo when riding my motorcylce. I have to get a medical all clear from my doctor after some tests and prooving control of my blood glucoses.

tenpercentfirearms
02-15-2012, 12:43 PM
Wayyyyy before. Suspended Oct 2011, started the dros 11 days ago. I mentioned it to the FFL as I had read this post. He scrachted out DRIVERS LICENSE and in pen wrote IDENTIFICATION on the processed DROS form for his records.

It was not suspended for any legal (i.e. DUI or whatever) but due to me being diabetic and having a hypo when riding my motorcylce. I have to get a medical all clear from my doctor after some tests and prooving control of my blood glucoses.

Very interesting. You definitely got lucky.

corcoraj2002
02-15-2012, 12:59 PM
I'll take it. I was worried, when I read this, that he would run it as a drivers license and not a CA ID but as I said I'll take it.

tenpercentfirearms
02-15-2012, 1:07 PM
I'll take it. I was worried, when I read this, that he would run it as a drivers license and not a CA ID but as I said I'll take it.

I wonder if you really are suspended? What if the DMV didn't do their paperwork correctly?

corcoraj2002
02-16-2012, 11:21 AM
I wonder if you really are suspended? What if the DMV didn't do their paperwork correctly?

No I'm definitetly suspended, I had a meeting with them to outline what checks I had to go through to get my license back and received multiple notices in the mail to get my DL card back and to outline the date that my suspension started and how I needed to send in supported information to the DMV.