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tozan
02-11-2012, 2:05 PM
Ok the post where a guy was contacted by LEO about a gun he owned in the past has brought up some interesting points. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=8018154#post8018154 and I didn't want to hyjack that or dozens of other threads related to the subject.

From what I understand from reading the PC, it is the sellers responsibility to transfer through a dealer or Itrafamil or use some type of registration when they dispose of a weapon and this brings up a few questions related to registration in general. I have seen a lot of posts related to some form of the following.

A firearm is transferred without a proper paper trail maybe, left in an apt. or storage unit or aunts house or whatever, you get the idea by a person we will call A and person B ends up with it, now B gives it to person C who now wants to get it in their name so they use the self registration process or have person B who is NOT the last registered owner PPT it to them.

OK, points for discussion:

1. Does the responsibility fall back on the original owner A to make sure it was done correctly?

2. Could or does DOJ ever go after person A for an improper transfer providing B was not a prohibited person?

3. Could person B getting rid of the gun in a PPT get in trouble because they received the gun without a PPT and because they are not the last registered owner A?

4. What if Person A or B for that matter just kept the gun are they actually required to register it?

5. Under what PC are they required as receivers to register it? Would this be comparable to receiving / finding a 12 round magazine where the liability falls on the seller not the buyer?

Hopefully our Legal minds will respond to this and give us reference to the applicable laws and or some what if's.... Thank you.

Librarian
02-11-2012, 2:40 PM
Mostly answered at the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Firearms_registration

Most transfers must use an FFL; for non-FFL transfers it's the person who receives it who must worry about the registration.

tozan
02-11-2012, 3:18 PM
Mostly answered at the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Firearms_registration

Most transfers must use an FFL; for non-FFL transfers it's the person who receives it who must worry about the registration.

Thank you for your post I read the wiki you posted but none of my points above are covered on it.

Librarian
02-11-2012, 3:31 PM
Your question (5) on the PC is exhaustively covered there.

A transfer failing to use an FFL where required is a misdemeanor; both giver and receiver are subject to that.

(2) never seems to reach appellate level, so I've never heard of it.

(3) is also covered at the wiki - not all guns are registered, so nobody checks ownership at a PPT.

vincewarde
02-11-2012, 4:02 PM
DROS and handgun registration predate the requirement for private transfers to go through dealers. As a result, there are many handguns that are registered to people who no longer own them. Frankly, I think DOJ is happy just to get these guns into the system. I have never heard of DOJ giving either the buyer or seller a hard time about a previous private transfer that predated the requirements. Just make sure you do the transfer correctly through a dealer.

Decoligny
02-11-2012, 6:27 PM
Joe buys a handgun in CA.
A year later Joe moves to a state that allow face-to-face no FFL involved sales of handguns.
Joe sells gun to Pete.
A year later both Joe and Pete move to CA.
Two weeks later, after Pete has CA docs, but hasn't done Personal Handgun Importer paperwork, he PPTs the gun to Sam.

No crime has been committed. Yet the state registration shows handgun registered to Joe now becomming registered to Sam. No record of Pete in CA files anywhere.

The DOJ doesn't worry about who registered the gun last. They just care about who is registering it now.

Quiet
02-11-2012, 9:50 PM
Joe buys a handgun in CA.
A year later Joe moves to a state that allow face-to-face no FFL involved sales of handguns.
Joe sells gun to Pete.
A year later both Joe and Pete move to CA.
Two weeks later, after Pete has CA docs, but hasn't done Personal Handgun Importer paperwork, he PPTs the gun to Sam.

No crime has been committed. Yet the state registration shows handgun registered to Joe now becomming registered to Sam. No record of Pete in CA files anywhere.

The DOJ doesn't worry about who registered the gun last. They just care about who is registering it now.

AFAIK...
During the PPT, the seller is noted/"registered" as the previous owner.
Unless it's changed, when accessing AFS to look up the owner of a firearm, it'll also list all the previous owners.

tozan
02-12-2012, 12:09 AM
Thank you I guess that pretty well sums it up.

Decoligny
02-12-2012, 8:06 PM
AFAIK...
During the PPT, the seller is noted/"registered" as the previous owner.
Unless it's changed, when accessing AFS to look up the owner of a firearm, it'll also list all the previous owners.

Except in cases where the gun has legally changed hands where no FFL was involved.