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Sir Stunna Lot
02-11-2012, 5:10 AM
Ok, i think ive read a lot of post regarding ar pistols in general, however, i still have a few questions left that just need a simple yes or no to put my mind at ease before i tackle this project:

1.)
If building from an 80% lower that i completed myself, can the pistol have the foregrip/heat shield? Would this violate any Ca State law or Fed Law or is it uncertain and left open to interpretation?

2.)
Will the pistol from said receiver need any "stamp tax" or needs to be registered as an AOW, SBR, or any other 3 letter acronym? Any paperworks need to be filled out and submited to the State of Ca or to the Feds?

3.)
Can a pistol built from said receiver have a vertical foregrip? Will this violate any Ca State law or Fed Law or is it uncertain and left open to interpretation?

4.)
Can said pistol have magpul's AFG? Will this violate any Ca State law or Fed Law or is it uncertain and left open to interpretation?

5.)
Can a legally pocessed 10+ round mag be used on said pistol?

My ultimate goal is something similar to the picture below + bullet button
http://www.umlautarms.com/images/AlexanderArms/pistol/SPIKE-50B-P700.jpg

FIREBALL_BRIAN
02-11-2012, 6:38 AM
I'm not best versed but I will attempt some and give you a money back guarantee ha ha.
1. Yes?
2.doesn't need to be registered because you machines it yourself.
3.no forefrip
4.some say gray area.
5. No normal cap mag

Please correct me if I am wrong. I don't feel solid about my response. Only an attempt

morrcarr67
02-11-2012, 7:04 AM
Answers in quote.

Ok, i think ive read a lot of post regarding ar pistols in general, however, i still have a few questions left that just need a simple yes or no to put my mind at ease before i tackle this project:

1.)
If building from an 80% lower that i completed myself, can the pistol have the foregrip/heat shield? Would this violate any Ca State law or Fed Law or is it uncertain and left open to interpretation? YES, no Fed laws broken, the magazine lock you install will make CA happy

2.)
Will the pistol from said receiver need any "stamp tax" or needs to be registered as an AOW, SBR, or any other 3 letter acronym? Any paperworks need to be filled out and submited to the State of Ca or to the Feds? Only if you plan on building a AOW, SBR's are against the law in CA.

3.)
Can a pistol built from said receiver have a vertical foregrip? Will this violate any Ca State law or Fed Law or is it uncertain and left open to interpretation?
It can have a VFG If you build a Title 1 Firearm which is over 26" OAL and a barrel of less than 16" and no extra paper work is needed. If you build a Pistol which is less than 26" OAL and a barrel of less than 16" you just built a AOW and would need to register it as such. Which would also mean that you will probably need an NFA Trust.

4.)
Can said pistol have magpul's AFG? Will this violate any Ca State law or Fed Law or is it uncertain and left open to interpretation? YES, no CA or Federal laws broken, no special registration needed.

5.)
Can a legally pocessed 10+ round mag be used on said pistol? NO, the maximum you may use in a gun with a fixed magazine is 10 rounds.

My ultimate goal is something similar to the picture below + bullet button
http://www.umlautarms.com/images/AlexanderArms/pistol/SPIKE-50B-P700.jpg

morrcarr67
02-11-2012, 7:07 AM
Here are your corrections

I'm not best versed but I will attempt some and give you a money back guarantee ha ha.
1. Yes?
2.doesn't need to be registered because you machines it yourself. Wrong
3.no forefrip Wrong
4.some say gray area. You're right but no reason to worry.
5. No normal cap mag Not sure what you mean but a 10 round magazine is ok.

Please correct me if I am wrong. I don't feel solid about my response. Only an attempt

707electrician
02-11-2012, 7:58 AM
Answers in quote.

Only one. Correction on yours; no you can't use 10+ mags in a gun with a mag lock

morrcarr67
02-11-2012, 8:43 AM
Only one. Correction on yours; no you can't use 10+ mags in a gun with a mag lock

I missed the +. I thought it just said 10. Thank you Sir. I will fix my earlier post. :)

Tripper
02-11-2012, 9:05 AM
Hmm, reading from phone I can't tell what the actual answers are

Tripper
02-11-2012, 9:08 AM
It appears morrcarr is suggesting it must be registered??

Didn't 9th circuit say a vfg doesn't change it from a pistol and along the line made it legal, I could very well be thinking of the wrong circuit or mixing cases??

morrcarr67
02-11-2012, 10:15 AM
It appears morrcarr is suggesting it must be registered??

Didn't 9th circuit say a vfg doesn't change it from a pistol and along the line made it legal, I could very well be thinking of the wrong circuit or mixing cases??

A VFG doesn't change it from being a pistol.

It does trigger NFA rules though.

A VFG on a pistol makes the pistol an AOW and would be subject to all NFA rules including registration as such.

gun toting monkeyboy
02-11-2012, 5:09 PM
A VFG doesn't change it from being a pistol.

It does trigger NFA rules though.

A VFG on a pistol makes the pistol an AOW and would be subject to all NFA rules including registration as such.

Ummm.... No. As you noted in a prior post, if the OAL is >26", it does not turn it into an AOW. And why does it need to be registered? If you make it, doesn't that mean you do not have to register it?:confused:

-Mb

morrcarr67
02-11-2012, 5:20 PM
Ummm.... No. As you noted in a prior post, if the OAL is >26", it does not turn it into an AOW. And why does it need to be registered? If you make it, doesn't that mean you do not have to register it?:confused:

-Mb


3.)
Can a pistol built from said receiver have a vertical foregrip? Will this violate any Ca State law or Fed Law or is it uncertain and left open to interpretation?
It can have a VFG. If the pistol you build is over 26" OAL no extra paper work is needed. If the pistol you build is less than 26" OAL you just built a AOW and would need to register it as such. Which would also mean that you will probably need an NFA Trust.

Read it again MB. The only thing I didn't bring up before was the Title 1 Firearm issue. Federal and CA law have different definitions of "Handguns/Pistols".

I did go back and update my first post with the difference between a Title 1 Firearm and a Pistol.

No need for any paperwork for a Title 1 Firearm.

If you build a firearm regulated by the NFA you will need to register it as such or you would be in big trouble.

torquefliteterror
02-11-2012, 6:01 PM
here is a link to franklin armory's page on their ar "other" as you can see it is legal, as long as it is 26" or over. only thing as long as you don't tuck it under your coat it remains "other" if you were to theoretically conceal it , you would be creating an AOW. I think thats how it would be but don't quote me on that. read the letters and you come to your own conclusion.
http://www.franklinarmory.com/PRODUCTS_XO-26.html



here is a link to the afg question. it is the last one answered , yes its legal on a pistol build

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B0qyloA48O3XZWFjYjMwYTMtYTg1MC00NzVhLWI3NmM tZDRiNTMzNzdhMzUx&hl=en&pli=1 (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B0qyloA48O3XZWFjYjMwYTMtYTg1MC00NzVhLWI3NmM tZDRiNTMzNzdhMzUx&hl=en&pli=1)

gun toting monkeyboy
02-11-2012, 10:33 PM
A VFG doesn't change it from being a pistol.

It does trigger NFA rules though.

A VFG on a pistol makes the pistol an AOW and would be subject to all NFA rules including registration as such.

But your first sentence and your last sentence contradict each other. The first one says a VFG doesn't change it, the last one says it does. And you still haven't answered where it says we have to register 80% lower route handguns.

Sir Stunna Lot
02-12-2012, 1:59 AM
thank for all the answer so far, however, more questions came to mind as i read over the answers:

6.)
Is there a difference between building an AR pistol (from 80% lower) with an OAL <26" vs OAL >26" (both have barrel <26")

7.)
Do i need to "register* it as an AOW with either one of the options above?

Cokebottle
02-12-2012, 2:18 AM
1.) If building from an 80% lower that i completed myself, can the pistol have the foregrip/heat shield? Would this violate any Ca State law or Fed Law or is it uncertain and left open to interpretation?
The issue is the "barrel shroud"
The AR platform has a magazine outside of the pistol grip, therefore it MUST have a bullet button to be legal (applies to rimfire as well).
The bullet button cancels the fact that the "barrel shroud" is an evil feature.

2.) Will the pistol from said receiver need any "stamp tax" or needs to be registered as an AOW, SBR, or any other 3 letter acronym? Any paperworks need to be filled out and submited to the State of Ca or to the Feds?
Negative. Build it, shoot it, enjoy it.
3.) Can a pistol built from said receiver have a vertical foregrip? Will this violate any Ca State law or Fed Law or is it uncertain and left open to interpretation?
Federal law, no uncertainty at all. A vertical forward grip creates an AOW and would require an NFA trust and tax stamp.
4.) Can said pistol have magpul's AFG? Will this violate any Ca State law or Fed Law or is it uncertain and left open to interpretation?
I would not do it because the AFG does allow for a "pistol style grasp"
Many Calgunners use it and nobody has reported any problems.
The BATFE has stated that the use of the AFG does NOT create an AOW, however, the BATFE accepts a long gun as legal so long as the extended length is 26", California requires the minimum length to be 26".

So the issue is, how would a California prosecutor and jury view the AFG?
5.) Can a legally pocessed 10+ round mag be used on said pistol?
No.
10rd limit applies to all semi-automatic centerfire rifles and all semiautomatic pistols with a fixed magazine.
The 10rd limit does not apply to fixed-magazine semi-automatic shotguns.
My ultimate goal is something similar to the picture below + bullet button
http://www.umlautarms.com/images/AlexanderArms/pistol/SPIKE-50B-P700.jpg
That would be perfectly legal.

morrcarr67
02-12-2012, 7:31 AM
A VFG doesn't change it from being a pistol.

It does trigger NFA rules though.

A VFG on a pistol makes the pistol an AOW and would be subject to all NFA rules including registration as such.


But your first sentence and your last sentence contradict each other. The first one says a VFG doesn't change it, the last one says it does. And you still haven't answered where it says we have to register 80% lower route handguns.

Sorry, I'll try it again.

A VFG doesn't change it from being a pistol (handgun).



Handgun. (a) Any firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand


If you read my first response I changed it to reflect the difference between a Title 1 Firearm and a Pistol. You could change it from a Pistol to a Title 1 Firearm to a Carbine but adding a VFG doesn't "change" what it is*. It can and does trigger other laws depending on what you put it on.

It does trigger NFA rules though.



Any Other Weapons (AOWs)—this is a broad "catch-all" category used to regulate any number of firearms which the BATFE under the NFA enforces registration and taxation. Examples include, among others:

1) Smooth-bore pistols 2) Pen guns and cane guns 3) A firearm with combinations smooth bore and rifle barrels 12 inches or more but less than 18 inches in length from which only a single shot can be made from either barrel. 4) Disguised firearms 5) Firearms that can be fired from within a wallet holster or a briefcase 6) A short-barreled shotgun which came from the factory with a pistol grip is categorized as an AOW rather than a Short Barrel Shotgun (SBS), because the Gun Control Act describes a shotgun as “…designed or redesigned to be fired from the shoulder…” 7) Handguns with a forward vertical grip.


So, if you look at the NFA rules you will see that an AOW is a "Handgun" (pistol); as well as other things, that someone put a VFG.

A VFG on a pistol makes the pistol an AOW and would be subject to all NFA rules including registration as such.

As for registering your personally built firearms you don't have to register them unless you trigger the NFA rules.

Also, I want to let you know that the firearm you just built is a Title 1 Firearm; NOT a Handgun, and you did not trigger the NFA Rules so you would not have to register you firearm with anyone if you don't want to.

I'm sorry to confuse you but I hope this helps



*Another way to read this that putting a VFG on a "Pistol" doesn't change it into a "Title 1 Firearm".

morrcarr67
02-12-2012, 7:40 AM
thank for all the answer so far, however, more questions came to mind as i read over the answers:

6.)
Is there a difference between building an AR pistol (from 80% lower) with an OAL <26" vs OAL >26" (both have barrel <26") Less than 26" OAL and less than 16" barrel is a "Handgun" (Pistol). Greater than 26" OAL and less than 16" barrel it's a Title 1 Firearm. CA laws sees both as "Handguns". No registration is needed

7.)
Do i need to "register* it as an AOW with either one of the options above? You only need to register it if you trigger NFA rules. In this case an AOW would be a "Handgun"(see handgun in your answer to question 6) with a VFG.

NFA rules regarding AOW's


Any Other Weapons (AOWs)—this is a broad "catch-all" category used to regulate any number of firearms which the BATFE under the NFA enforces registration and taxation. Examples include, among others:

1) Smooth-bore pistols 2) Pen guns and cane guns 3) A firearm with combinations smooth bore and rifle barrels 12 inches or more but less than 18 inches in length from which only a single shot can be made from either barrel. 4) Disguised firearms 5) Firearms that can be fired from within a wallet holster or a briefcase 6) A short-barreled shotgun which came from the factory with a pistol grip is categorized as an AOW rather than a Short Barrel Shotgun (SBS), because the Gun Control Act describes a shotgun as “…designed or redesigned to be fired from the shoulder…” 7) Handguns with a forward vertical grip.

ke6guj
02-12-2012, 9:46 AM
I would not do it because the AFG does allow for a "pistol style grasp"
Many Calgunners use it and nobody has reported any problems.
The BATFE has stated that the use of the AFG does NOT create an AOW, however, the BATFE accepts a long gun as legal so long as the extended length is 26", California requires the minimum length to be 26".

So the issue is, how would a California prosecutor and jury view the AFG?
.even if the prosecutor view the AFG as a VFG, and therefore an evil feature, it wouldn't matter on a maglocked pistol. At that point, it would be just as evil as the barrel shroud or threaded barrel that the AR-pistol already has.

ke6guj
02-12-2012, 9:54 AM
Sorry, I'll try it again.

A VFG doesn't change it from being a pistol (handgun).

actually, it does.

ATF says that if you put a VFG on a pistol (less than 26" OAL), that it is no longer a pistol. As long as it is considered a pistol, it is exempt from the AOW definition. "pistol" is defined as a rifled-bore firearm designed to be fired with one hand. ATF opines that if you put a VFG on it, then you have a firearm "designed to be fired with two hands" and it is therefore not a pistol.


(e) Any other weapon. The term 'any
other weapon' means any weapon or
device capable of being concealed on the
person from which a shot can be discharged
through the energy of an explosive,
a pistol or revolver having a barrel
with a smooth bore designed or redesigned
to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons
with combination shotgun and rifle
barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18
inches in length, from which only a single
discharge can be made from either barrel
without manual reloading, and shall include
any such weapon which may be
readily restored to fire. Such term shall
not include a pistol or a revolver having a
rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons
designed, made, or intended to be fired
from the shoulder and not capable of
firing fixed ammunition.

chillincody
02-12-2012, 10:15 AM
OMG ...thought I had my ar pistol ? answered but you all have just confussed the piss out of me ??lol :confused::confused:

Cokebottle
02-12-2012, 11:12 AM
even if the prosecutor view the AFG as a VFG, and therefore an evil feature, it wouldn't matter on a maglocked pistol. At that point, it would be just as evil as the barrel shroud or threaded barrel that the AR-pistol already has.
I would be concerned about it triggering AOW within California.

BATFE is good with an underfolder that is 30" extended and 24" folded.
California would consider that to be an SBR (ignoring for a moment the AW issue)... so just because BATFE says it's not NFA, I don't trust California.

As long as California is doing it's own thing, and with the DOJ being reluctant to issue any written opinions clarifying such discrepancies, I generally presume that the DOJ is going to side against us on current "unknowns"

ke6guj
02-12-2012, 11:33 AM
I would be concerned about it triggering AOW within California. but there is no such thing as a CA AOW.

BATFE is good with an underfolder that is 30" extended and 24" folded.
California would consider that to be an SBR (ignoring for a moment the AW issue)... so just because BATFE says it's not NFA, I don't trust California.
Yes, CA does say that it is an CA-defined SBR, that doesn't mean that is NFA. Only the feds can say if something is subject to the NFA.

As long as California is doing it's own thing, and with the DOJ being reluctant to issue any written opinions clarifying such discrepancies, I generally presume that the DOJ is going to side against us on current "unknowns"

I keep going back to the issue that a VFG on a pistol is no more CA-evil than a threaded barrel or barrel shroud.

whisperingdoom
02-12-2012, 11:50 AM
OMG ...thought I had my ar pistol ? answered but you all have just confussed the piss out of me ??lol :confused::confused:



same here.

not to beat a dead horse but if I have bullet buttons on my AR pistols and legally own Hi-cap magazines ....CAN I USE THE MAGAZINES ON MY PISTOL?

- from my understanding it was a yes..but now i'm not to sure.

ke6guj
02-12-2012, 11:53 AM
same here.

not to beat a dead horse but if I have bullet buttons on my AR pistols and legally own Hi-cap magazines ....CAN I USE THE MAGAZINES ON MY PISTOL?

- from my understanding it was a yes..but now i'm not to sure.why would you have ever thought is was a YES?

Its covered in the handgun flowchart and here is the pertinant code,

30515. (a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, "assault weapon" also
means any of the following:
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the
capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

whisperingdoom
02-12-2012, 12:04 PM
why would you have ever thought is was a YES?

Its covered in the handgun flowchart and here is the pertinant code,

30515. (a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, "assault weapon" also
means any of the following:
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the
capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.


I was told by someone that it was OK also that
because I had the hicap magazines before the ban and legally own them as well as having a bullet button on the rifles and pistols.

I have low cap mags and havent taken the pistols to the range yet good thing I checked.


http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=23483

also

The California Department of Justice Bureau of Firearms FAQ summarizes the restrictions well:

Q If I have a large-capacity magazine, do I need to get rid of
it?

No. Continued possession of large-capacity magazines (able to
accept more than 10 rounds) that you owned in California before
January 1, 2000, is not prohibited. However as of January 1,
2000, it is illegal to buy, manufacture, import, keep for sale,
expose for sale, give or lend any large-capacity magazine in
California except by law enforcement agencies, California
peace officers, or licensed dealers.

(PC Section 12020 (b)(19-29))

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Large-capacity_magazine_restrictions

ke6guj
02-12-2012, 12:09 PM
I was told by someone that it was OK also that
because I had the hicap magazines before the ban and legally own them as well as having a bullet button on the rifles and pistols.

I have low cap mags and havent taken the pistols to the range yet good thing I checked.

wow, that someone almost got you a felony. You need to read the laws yourself to understand what is and isn't legal.

Start here, http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/calawquery?codesection=pen&codebody=&hits=20

Cokebottle
02-12-2012, 12:29 PM
I was told by someone that it was OK also that
because I had the hicap magazines before the ban and legally own them as well as having a bullet button on the rifles and pistols.

I have low cap mags and havent taken the pistols to the range yet good thing I checked.


http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=23483


That thread and your PC cite only deal with the magazines themselves.

There is a separate assault weapon law statute that prohibits the use of >10rd magazines in a fixed-magazine semiautomatic firearm (other than a shotgun).

whisperingdoom
02-12-2012, 12:41 PM
had to look in my sticky on where i saw that it was OK.

it was in wiki calguns..http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/What_about_MAGAZINES%3F#Magazine_Questions

Can I use my large-capacity magazines?

Yes.

Regardless of date or manner of acquisition, it is not illegal to use large capacity magazines.

- I dont like it but just to be safe i'm blocking all my magazine and not using the ones I cant block while in CA.

ke6guj
02-12-2012, 12:50 PM
had to look in my sticky on where i saw that it was OK.

it was in wiki calguns..http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/What_about_MAGAZINES%3F#Magazine_Questions

Can I use my large-capacity magazines?

Yes.

Regardless of date or manner of acquisition, it is not illegal to use large capacity magazines.

just a litle further down in that wiki, you'll see this:

Use of large-capacity magazines in "Bullet Buttoned" firearms

Can I use my large-capacity magazines in my firearm equipped with a "Bullet Button?"

NO! Rifles or pistols equipped with a bullet button (whether they are equipped with "evil features" or not) cannot use large capacity magazines. Large-capacity magazine laws are different from assault weapons laws.

Remember that 'bullet buttons' are only used on centerfire semi-automatic rifles.

Why?

A weapon with a "fixed magazine", which necessitates the use of a bullet button, also requires a 10-round or fewer magazine. Such a gun used with a large capacity magazine creates a Category 3 assault weapon.

What good are large capacity magazines then?

They can be used with firearms that do not have "Evil Features" or Bullet Buttons.




- I dont like it but just to be safe i'm blocking all my magazine and not using the ones I cant block while in CA.you don't have to block large-cap mags that you legally own, just don't use them in a manner that could cause you to have an unregistered Assault Weapon on your hands.

Cokebottle
02-12-2012, 1:09 PM
had to look in my sticky on where i saw that it was OK.

it was in wiki calguns..http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/What_about_MAGAZINES%3F#Magazine_Questions

Can I use my large-capacity magazines?

Yes.

Regardless of date or manner of acquisition, it is not illegal to use large capacity magazines.

- I dont like it but just to be safe i'm blocking all my magazine and not using the ones I cant block while in CA.
And that is still 100% true.
My wife can use her 15rd magazines in her Beretta 92FS.
I can use my hypothetically owned 30rd AR mags in my featureless build (no evil features, no bullet button).

I can NOT use those magazines in my featured build with a bullet button.

There are two laws that are coming into play here:

PC12020(a)(2) covers high caps. PC12020(b)(19-31) list exemptions to PC12020(a)(2).
The magazines that you have owned since before the ban are covered by one of those exemptions.

The second one is where you are getting bit.
PC12276.1(a)(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

12276.1(a)(2) does not have any exemptions.

whisperingdoom
02-12-2012, 2:26 PM
-what about ar pistols---same thing with regards to legally owned hi cap magazines?

ke6guj
02-12-2012, 2:31 PM
-what about ar pistols---same thing with regards to legally owned hi cap magazines?

posted above.

just a litle further down in that wiki, you'll see this:

Use of large-capacity magazines in "Bullet Buttoned" firearms

Can I use my large-capacity magazines in my firearm equipped with a "Bullet Button?"

NO! Rifles or pistols equipped with a bullet button (whether they are equipped with "evil features" or not) cannot use large capacity magazines. Large-capacity magazine laws are different from assault weapons laws.

Remember that 'bullet buttons' are only used on centerfire semi-automatic rifles.

Why?

A weapon with a "fixed magazine", which necessitates the use of a bullet button, also requires a 10-round or fewer magazine. Such a gun used with a large capacity magazine creates a Category 3 assault weapon.

What good are large capacity magazines then?

They can be used with firearms that do not have "Evil Features" or Bullet Buttons.

Mr. Casull
02-12-2012, 4:02 PM
Turner's sells an AR pistol with a foregrip and the barrel is only 11" long. It is legal. I confirmed with OC Armory and they agreed it is legal. I have a 7 1/2" barrel on my with a foregrip but it is a registered AOW.

morrcarr67
02-12-2012, 4:09 PM
actually, it does.

ATF says that if you put a VFG on a pistol (less than 26" OAL), that it is no longer a pistol. As long as it is considered a pistol, it is exempt from the AOW definition. "pistol" is defined as a rifled-bore firearm designed to be fired with one hand. ATF opines that if you put a VFG on it, then you have a firearm "designed to be fired with two hands" and it is therefore not a pistol.


(e) Any other weapon. The term 'any
other weapon' means any weapon or
device capable of being concealed on the
person from which a shot can be discharged
through the energy of an explosive,
a pistol or revolver having a barrel
with a smooth bore designed or redesigned
to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons
with combination shotgun and rifle
barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18
inches in length, from which only a single
discharge can be made from either barrel
without manual reloading, and shall include
any such weapon which may be
readily restored to fire. Such term shall
not include a pistol or a revolver having a
rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons
designed, made, or intended to be fired
from the shoulder and not capable of
firing fixed ammunition.

Thank you Sir for the correction.

Sorry to all that I confused.

Jesse

Cokebottle
02-12-2012, 5:08 PM
-what about ar pistols---same thing with regards to legally owned hi cap magazines?
Handgun AW laws are even more encompassing.

Rimfire rifles are exempt from the AW laws... handguns are not.
ALL "featured" handguns must have a fixed magazine, and NO fixed magazine semi-automatic handgun may have a capacity greater than 10rds.

Quiet
02-12-2012, 6:16 PM
Turner's sells an AR pistol with a foregrip and the barrel is only 11" long. It is legal. I confirmed with OC Armory and they agreed it is legal. I have a 7 1/2" barrel on my with a foregrip but it is a registered AOW.
What you saw at Turner's is the Franklin Armory XO-26, which under Federal laws is defined as a Title 1 "Other" and under CA laws is defined as a "handgun". The configuration that it is sold in is legal under both Federal and CA laws.

It's a "other" because the overall length is greater than 26".
Since it's a "other" it can legally have a vertical forgrip attached to it.
If it's overall length was under 26", it would be a Title 2 AOW due to it's vertical forward grip.

gun toting monkeyboy
02-12-2012, 7:04 PM
What you saw at Turner's is the Franklin Armory XO-26, which under Federal laws is defined as a Title 1 "Other" and under CA laws is defined as a "handgun". The configuration that it is sold in is legal under both Federal and CA laws.

It's a "other" because the overall length is greater than 26".
Since it's a "other" it can legally have a vertical forgrip attached to it.
If it's overall length was under 26", it would be a Title 2 AOW due to it's vertical forward grip.

Finally. Somebody with the right answer. The fail was getting pretty strong on this thread.

motorwerks
02-12-2012, 8:18 PM
ok I have a question that goes right along with this..... CA says no threaded barrels on handguns, What about AR pistols? wouldn't having a removable muzzle device fall under this?

Cokebottle
02-12-2012, 8:24 PM
ok I have a question that goes right along with this..... CA says no threaded barrels on handguns, What about AR pistols? wouldn't having a removable muzzle device fall under this?
Threaded barrel is an AW feature.
Fixed magazine clears that feature, so an AR pistol with a bullet button is GTG with a threaded barrel.

Please people... Read and comprehend the flowcharts.
California gun laws are not THAT convoluted.

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf
http://www.calguns.net/caawid/hgflowchart.pdf
http://www.calguns.net/caawid/sgflowchart.pdf

ke6guj
02-12-2012, 8:27 PM
ok I have a question that goes right along with this..... CA says no threaded barrels on handguns, What about AR pistols? wouldn't having a removable muzzle device fall under this?they say no threaded barrels on SOME handguns. Please read the PC.



30515. (a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, "assault weapon" also
means any of the following:
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a
detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor,
forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely
encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon
without burning the bearer's hand, except a slide that encloses the
barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location
outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the
capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.