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View Full Version : opinion: conventional tilt action vs gas delay blowback


wu_dot_com
02-10-2012, 1:17 PM
so i have a general question for both experts and none experts.

what are your general consensus between the two locking features.

the area that i am interested in are reliability, versatility, and accuracy for military / police usage.

for the tilt lock system, the accuracy suffers because the barrel is not fixed to the frame. while the reliability is high because there is no worry of fouling the gas port.

for the gas delay blowback system, the accuracy is good, the extraction is better, with a trade off of having a sharper recoil and less flexible with lead bullets. the barrels is typically longer becuase it can be fix rather than a moving part. think HK P7

i am trying to come up with a design for using gas delay blow back for military application. i chose the gas delay system becusae its simple, accurate, extraction is superb, and i can mount the barrel very close to the web of the hand. the over heating issue noted in the P7 was also address in my design, and the only problem that i see is the inharent resistance to fouling.

so please give me your two cents.

jrara
02-10-2012, 1:22 PM
Gas blowback would be the way to go if you can resolve the fouling and the flexibility of loads.

I seen an old video where a P7 functioned perfectly without the extractor, don't know if the fluted chamber had to do something with it.

wu_dot_com
02-10-2012, 1:33 PM
Gas blowback would be the way to go if you can resolve the fouling and the flexibility of loads.

I seen an old video where a P7 functioned perfectly without the extractor, don't know if the fluted chamber had to do something with it.

fouling would be okay as long as jacked bullets were used. unless i vent out the gas, i dont see a way for a self cleaning solution. however, like an AR, you dont really want to shoot Lead bullets through it for the same reason.

the fluted chambers helps with the extraction so the shell dont stick to the chamber due to expansion. the extractor is there to dictate the ejection angle and it double as a loaded chamber indicator.

Kodemonkey
02-10-2012, 1:53 PM
To me, handguns are for close in and the accuracy you get from delayed blowback is less important than reliability. Having the tilt helps in feeding, especially in larger caliber hollowpoints.

jchen76@gmail.com
02-10-2012, 1:59 PM
I own a HK P7 PSP, also glock and sig, all in 9mm. All 3 pistols have been 100% reliable with various loads. The HK P7 design, you like it or hate it. I find that I do double taps faster than the glock or sig. I attribute this to ergonomics, low bore axis, good grip angle and light trigger. When I take out newbies to shoot, they P7 gives the best groupings first time out versus the other 2 pistols I've mentioned for a centerfire round.

I haven't seen any internet video of HK P7 torture test, e.g. being dropped in mud and firing without a hitch like a glock, XD, etc. If this any indication, I'd use my G26 in my bug out bag. Namely it's lighter, higher capacity and tougher finish. The plus side of the HK P7 is not too many are familiar in its use, if let's say a BG grabs my P7 and uses it, about 98% of time they won't know to squeeze the grip to actuate firing. I've read there has been no reports of BG using an officer's P7 on them.

wu_dot_com
02-10-2012, 3:16 PM
To me, handguns are for close in and the accuracy you get from delayed blowback is less important than reliability. Having the tilt helps in feeding, especially in larger caliber hollowpoints.

in my design, i was able to get magazine to directly aligne into the chamber w/o a feed ramp.

in a title lock design, a title is needed because the barrel need rooms to move, but in a fix barrel design, the feed mechanism is almost straight in and out.

wu_dot_com
02-10-2012, 3:25 PM
I own a HK P7 PSP, also glock and sig, all in 9mm. All 3 pistols have been 100% reliable with various loads. The HK P7 design, you like it or hate it. I find that I do double taps faster than the glock or sig. I attribute this to ergonomics, low bore axis, good grip angle and light trigger. When I take out newbies to shoot, they P7 gives the best groupings first time out versus the other 2 pistols I've mentioned for a centerfire round.

I haven't seen any internet video of HK P7 torture test, e.g. being dropped in mud and firing without a hitch like a glock, XD, etc. If this any indication, I'd use my G26 in my bug out bag. Namely it's lighter, higher capacity and tougher finish. The plus side of the HK P7 is not too many are familiar in its use, if let's say a BG grabs my P7 and uses it, about 98% of time they won't know to squeeze the grip to actuate firing. I've read there has been no reports of BG using an officer's P7 on them.

this is good news,

my design intention will probabbly have the lowest bore of all existing design. i am planning to have the bore axis directly overlaying the web of the hand. thus the recoil will be straight back . the grip angle will be more aggressive yet more ergo. i plan to take the design cue for the grips from those .22 olympic pistol.

so both of those features should help offset the harsh recoil.