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View Full Version : Does CCW=LOC?


SGTKane
02-10-2012, 9:28 AM
Forgive my weak google-fu skills as I'm sure this has already been discussed, but I've got a bit of a question.

Since the change in law outlawed Open Carry, if you have a CCW can you still open carry or must your firearm be concealed?

I do a lot of rucking/hiking in remote areas and as long as I could open carry, I did so. I've started the application process for my CCW (El Dorado county) and I'm wondering if I need to look at reconfiguring how I carry things to meet with legal requirements once I have it.

sfpcservice
02-10-2012, 9:40 AM
A couple of years back the law was written in a manner that would make you correct.... If you had a valid CCW, you could legally carry open and loaded in public. They have since "fixed the glitch" after someone did it in LA and the law now stipulates you must carry in the manner prescribed on your permit.

Librarian
02-10-2012, 9:50 AM
'Open Carry' is its own kind of permit, and almost never issued. Very restrictive in that it is good ONLY in the county issued.

therealnickb
02-10-2012, 9:52 AM
Forgive my weak google-fu skills as I'm sure this has already been discussed, but I've got a bit of a question.

Since the change in law outlawed Open Carry, if you have a CCW can you still open carry or must your firearm be concealed?

I do a lot of rucking/hiking in remote areas and as long as I could open carry, I did so. I've started the application process for my CCW (El Dorado county) and I'm wondering if I need to look at reconfiguring how I carry things to meet with legal requirements once I have it.

The Utah permit rules say exposing your weapon for any reason (accidental or otherwise) than self defense is cause to lose your permit.

I have not yet been graced with a CA permit.

curtisfong
02-10-2012, 10:05 AM
The wonderful thing about the law:

If you are legally carrying concealed, they'll try to bust you if you partially expose it accidentally.

If you are legally open carrying, they'll try to bust you if you partially conceal it accidentally.

SJgunguy24
02-10-2012, 10:10 AM
Concealed means concealed. If your hiking in remote areas I wouldn't really see any issue with loaded open carry especially if you could legally shoot in that area. If your really worried, get a fishing license and a small pole.

CHS
02-10-2012, 10:28 AM
I do a lot of rucking/hiking in remote areas and as long as I could open carry, I did so. I've started the application process for my CCW (El Dorado county) and I'm wondering if I need to look at reconfiguring how I carry things to meet with legal requirements once I have it.

If you could legally LOC there before the law went into effect, then you can legally LOC there now.

The open carry ban didn't ban any already-legal LOC activities. It only banned UOC activities in certain (most) areas.

MudCamper
02-10-2012, 2:40 PM
While you are required to carry "in the manner prescribed" which means, concealed, the LTC codes do not go on to define what concealed means. Neither does 12025/25400, which is the code that makes concealing without a license illegal.

In People v Hale, the court defined that even partial concealment is concealment (in that case, only the magazine was concealed). They ruled this asinine way in order to uphold a bogus 12025 charge. The flip side is that now they defined concealment to mean only partially covered.

California is not like Texas, where there are penalties for not fully concealing. The "concealed means concealed" nonsense does not apply here.

So where do you draw the line? Nobody really knows. Many Sheriff's do have policies about it though. This will change if we ever win a carry case.

CitaDeL
02-10-2012, 4:19 PM
While you are required to carry "in the manner prescribed" which means, concealed, the LTC codes do not go on to define what concealed means. Neither does 12025/25400, which is the code that makes concealing without a license illegal.

In People v Hale, the court defined that even partial concealment is concealment (in that case, only the magazine was concealed). They ruled this asinine way in order to uphold a bogus 12025 charge. The flip side is that now they defined concealment to mean only partially covered.

California is not like Texas, where there are penalties for not fully concealing. The "concealed means concealed" nonsense does not apply here.

So where do you draw the line? Nobody really knows. Many Sheriff's do have policies about it though. This will change if we ever win a carry case.

Well put. And it is my earnest hope this is true.