PDA

View Full Version : For Rojo


Latigo
02-10-2012, 4:34 AM
Beech Stocks.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/Pete014.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/Pete047.jpg

The original is Shellaq. Use alcohol to remove the old Shellaq
Do not immerse the stock or get the interior wood overly wet.
Rub Scrub stock hard and quickly with warm soapy water and a scrub brush.
Rub dry immediately with a Terry towel and let stand overnight.
Use the directional steamer to raise the dents..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/Steamer.jpg

Apply new coats of clear Shellaq. Some Shellaqs have a yellow or red tinge. That's ok.

Walnut Stocks

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/Pete039.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/Pete035.jpg

Do not immerse the stock or get the interior wood overly wet.
Rub Scrub stock hard and quickly with warm soapy and a scrub brush.
Rub dry with a Terry towel and let stand overnight.
Use the directional steamer to raise the dents.

A) Use 000 Copper Wool to smooth the surfaces.
Hand rub with raw linseed oil until you have a warm smooth finish.
This may take a number of coats.

B) Sanding is less preferable unless you're going for a new rifle appearance.
Sand smooth but use a wood block taking care not to round any of the
edges or the fingergrooves. Do not overly sand the Cartouche.
Rub vigorously with a rough Terry towel.
Apply a coat of Tung Oil with a soft cloth and let dry. Lightly rub down
with 000 Copper Wool. Repeat this process 6 to 10 times until you have
a deep, warm glow to the wood. If you want a glossier finish, don't Copper
Wool the last coat. I prefer the satin look, so I do use it on the final coat.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

See what smokin' them furriner cigars does to you? You didn't look in the main thread first! :D

rojocorsa
02-10-2012, 6:39 AM
Latigo: I have seen that before, on the Swiss Rifles board and here. But I wanted to ask about alternatives instead of just shellac for my beech stock.

In my experience, that stuff has been flaky and not that sturdy:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg375/scaled.php?server=375&filename=003whc.jpg&res=medium

See right under the finger grooves and in front of the mag?


Unless that is because in Soviet Russia, shellac flakes you.

bruceflinch
02-10-2012, 7:29 AM
Beech Stocks.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/Pete014.jpg



Son of a Beech! That is pretty!

Latigo
02-10-2012, 8:04 AM
Trim those fingernails, gurly-man!!! :D
A second choice is Tung Oil. It brings out the grain and can look really fine, and I have one with satin Lacquer that looks great.

BTW.. Someone said you always take photos with those "regular fit" jeans, but they're from 10 years ago? :D

rojocorsa
02-10-2012, 8:13 AM
Nah, that's my favorite pair. Waist 34 because I am a little chunky. Lol.

So is there any practical difference between tung and blo, or do they do the same thing?

Cessnapilot89
02-10-2012, 8:20 AM
Tung tends to make things a tad darker if I recall. Rojo if you want to redo you stock, I have some real shellac in the garage you can use.

Latigo
02-10-2012, 8:27 AM
Tung Oil is quite different from BLO. Among other things, it dries completely and BLO doesn't (sub-surface) for a very long time.

rojocorsa
02-10-2012, 10:19 AM
OK, before I ask anything else--Latigo, why did the Swiss switch from BLO to shellac on their stocks?

Latigo
02-10-2012, 10:57 AM
When the war dried up supplies of walnut and they switched to a Beech wood, and they recognized that BLO was the least desireable for that wood type. Secondarily, Shellaq was very fast to apply.

SKSer45
02-10-2012, 11:09 AM
so when do I get my own thread? I like beech stocks and Swiss stuff too :(

Blitzburgh
02-10-2012, 11:16 AM
Well you've hijacked every other thread in this forum... isn't that enough?

Latigo
02-10-2012, 11:52 AM
Go ahead. Say something really Swiss-like, drop some pearls of wisdom and we'll all answer you,... one way or another. :D

rojocorsa
02-10-2012, 1:23 PM
Someone's jealous. LOL

OK, I will rule out BLO. I guess that means no BLO for my Enfield either (seeing that it's 80% beech? The upper handguard is walnut.

And they chose shellac out of pure convenience? I'm just under the impression that it doesnt hold up that well. That's all, really.

Latigo
02-10-2012, 1:29 PM
Cconsider the age of those rifles with Shellaq, and how many of them still look ok even after long stints in the field.

SKSer45
02-10-2012, 1:31 PM
sweet! I want some photos of the Swiss k31 during WW2!! ooooo that would be nice!!!

Pay no attention to these other heathens Latigo...

rojocorsa
02-10-2012, 4:37 PM
Cconsider the age of those rifles with Shellaq, and how many of them still look ok even after long stints in the field.

Good point...

1-M-42
02-10-2012, 5:35 PM
When the war dried up supplies of walnut and they switched to a Beech wood, and they recognized that BLO was the least desireable for that wood type. Secondarily, Shellaq was very fast to apply.


OK, now what happened to me makes a little sense. The first K31 I picked up had some stock issues and a finish/color that was unlike any other K31 I'd seen. I stripped it, very light sanding and applied real tung oil, cut 1-1 with citrus solvent, like the instructions said. I was doing a Savage SMLE at the same time, it turned out fantastic, seven coats of tung, nice color. The K31, although much better, still didn't turn out like all the other pics I'd seen.

So, question I have Latigo, is the Beech grain tighter or is there another reason the tung oil didn't soak in or color the wood? I'm a little perplexed and not sure what direction to go now.

1-M-42
02-10-2012, 5:39 PM
sweet! I want some photos of the Swiss k31 during WW2!! ooooo that would be nice!!!

Pay no attention to these other heathens Latigo...

Picked up two really good books off of Amazon last week, "Target Switzerland" and "The Swiss and The Nazis", both by Stephen P. Halbrook. Some photos, but mostly both are really good reads about what the Swiss went through in WWII. Equipment, tactics and the leadership of Swiss General Henri Guisan are included. Great books.

rojocorsa
02-10-2012, 6:16 PM
OK, now what happened to me makes a little sense. The first K31 I picked up had some stock issues and a finish/color that was unlike any other K31 I'd seen. I stripped it, very light sanding and applied real tung oil, cut 1-1 with citrus solvent, like the instructions said. I was doing a Savage SMLE at the same time, it turned out fantastic, seven coats of tung, nice color. The K31, although much better, still didn't turn out like all the other pics I'd seen.

So, question I have Latigo, is the Beech grain tighter or is there another reason the tung oil didn't soak in or color the wood? I'm a little perplexed and not sure what direction to go now.


Hmmm


What kind of wood does your Savage feature, BTW?

1-M-42
02-10-2012, 6:20 PM
Actually, not sure on the Enfield....it took 5 coats of stripper to get the hardened cosmo off. I think it is walnut, cleaned up really well. I'll try to post some pics of both when I get home.

rojocorsa
02-10-2012, 6:28 PM
Ah, OK.

I ask because 80% of mine is beech, and you're saying that the tung oil doesn't work...

Blitzburgh
02-10-2012, 7:05 PM
Picked up two really good books off of Amazon last week, "Target Switzerland" and "The Swiss and The Nazis", both by Stephen P. Halbrook. Some photos, but mostly both are really good reads about what the Swiss went through in WWII. Equipment, tactics and the leadership of Swiss General Henri Guisan are included. Great books.

Are you copying me? I just bought those books also! Along with the book about Guisan! Did you hack my acccount or something? Give it up man and we'll go easy on ya! ;)

Of course, being that I had planned on going to some BLM land this weekend and shooting the K31 at 300m with the A10 Target and my new Diopter, those books were delivered to my office today - and I was not there.

I went into the office yesterday and nothing had arrived. NOTHING! Not even my incense that I ordered two weeks ago! (of course that has nothing to do with this weekends shooting plans). So I get an email from the office today that the Diopter arrived... then the ammo... then the books... and on and on and on. I'd drop by the office - but it's an hour drive from where I'm at today. Grrrrrrr...

So I went to Kinko's to get the A10 targets printed... waited in line.. fiddled around... finally! Get it all set up... the guy hits the print button (his name was "Hawk"... odd... ) Nothing. Oh! That printer broke this morning! Do you want some reduced targets? Grrrrr.....

The Swiss gawds are against me... but I will overcome...

In the mean time... :banghead:

Blitzburgh
02-10-2012, 7:07 PM
You know... there is an article on the Box of Truth website about refinishing K31's... Let me go find it....

Found it! http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu26.htm

Here is the page with tons of info on all sorts of stuff: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/educational.htm

It's a great site... check it out...

rojocorsa
02-10-2012, 8:25 PM
Yeah, I go on his site from time to time. It's very neat!

Is it just me, or did all Swiss rifle hell break loose on this sub-forum right around the time I brought home a K-31? Which was actually two weeks ago today...


I mean, it seems like every other thread for the past two weeks has been about Swiss rifles and Latigo compiled a sticky thread for them here! What other C&R rifle here gets its own sticky? Not even Mosins have one here, lol---and everyone, well, except SKSer45 has a Mosin!

Latigo
02-11-2012, 2:54 AM
Goode morning Rojo! Despite his "50 years of experience", he's dead wrong. The original finish on Beech stocks was simple shellaq. Bern never ever added stain to shellaq, and as for his opinion on protection and logevity of that original finish, an awful lot of Swiss soldiers would disagree. The difference in the hue on a particular rifle always depended on the grain and natural hue of that particular piece of wood.

I-M-42, that Beech is a tighter grain, and the differences in finished color on a wide spread of refinished rifles is because the refinisher added stain. The old shellaq flakes were what they were and most turned out with a yellowish (sometimes slightly orangeish) finish. Walnut absorbs far more easily than Beech.

There are lots of stock refinishing Q&A on this one.

http://theswissriflesdotcommessageboard.yuku.com/search/text/forum/5?q=original+beech+finish

There is simply nobody in Europe more qualified to answer Swiss arms questions than Guisan. Its his life's work.

http://theswissriflesdotcommessageboard.yuku.com/topic/9718/K31-Beech-Stock-Refinishing-Discussion

As for bluing....

http://theswissriflesdotcommessageboard.yuku.com/reply/50561/How-to-reblue-the-receiver-only#reply-50561

Box-O-Truth is a great site for sure, but its a mixture of facts an opinions. He too is human and none of us humans always get it dead right.... Except my Father. When asked if he's ever made a mistake he always says, "Well, I do remember once in 1952 when.............." :D

Latigo
02-11-2012, 3:06 AM
I've never tried it, but some of the guys on my home forum have.

http://www.bluewonder.us/BlueWonderGunBlue.html#Video

rojocorsa
02-11-2012, 9:22 AM
Blue wonder has worked OK, IMO, after seeing my buddy use it to touch up his 98k.

I will read this stuff when I get back. Thank you for helping us out.


Latigo, is your father Swiss or part Swiss?

Latigo
02-11-2012, 9:42 AM
No, he lived in Germany back in the 60s and 70s working in a large design studio and traveled back and forth between Germany and Switzerland quite often. Long ago he was fluent, and he's still very good with reading and still does ok with writing but never often got the chance to converse with it once he settled in Lost Prairie.

Now he does use it to translate for me and strangely enough, he sings German childrens songs to my daughter. He has the Wilhelm Busch collection that he keeps as bedside reading.

1-M-42
02-11-2012, 3:49 PM
Latigo, here's some pics of the K31 I've been working on. The color in the photo is pretty accurate, I'm assuming the shellac imparts the yellow or red tint and that's why the tung oil is leaving it close to the natural state. I used a very lightly tinted oil, not the dark as well. Also, notice the vintage Weaver K3 with the vintage Weaver rings. Took your advise, I think it turned out pretty nice.

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/waughr/IMG_0141.jpg
http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/waughr/IMG_0140.jpg
http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/waughr/IMG_0137.jpg
http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/waughr/IMG_0136.jpg
http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/waughr/IMG_0143.jpg
http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/waughr/IMG_0144.jpg

Latigo
02-11-2012, 6:41 PM
That is absolutely the best kind of a scope combination. Compact and as low to the axis of the bore as possible with a good cheek weld.
I'm wondering if you can install even lower mounts, but then they wouldn't be the originals. I did notice is that the front ring isn't up against the recoil stud. That prevents any traveling of the scope under recoil.
Very nice! :D

1-M-42
02-11-2012, 6:43 PM
I just slapped it on for the pics, rings showed up today and I wanted to see how it looked.

rojocorsa
02-11-2012, 6:47 PM
1-M-42,


So your rifle is beech stocked, right?




Say guys, what kind of finish do these Enfields have?

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc417/IEShooter/British%20Enfield/20120211_0871.jpg

Yes, I know this is recently posted, but they have that same K-31 wood look to them.

Latigo
02-11-2012, 7:05 PM
I ccould be very wrong, but it sure looks like a satin poly finish.

1-M-42
02-11-2012, 7:12 PM
nope, pure tung oil, cut 1-1 with citrus solvent. Both from "Real Milk Paint" Company back east. This was my first Swiss rifle, I pretty much followed what I've done with my U.S. and Brit rifles. This was five coats, it took a very long time to soak into the wood, I like the looks of it but it's not true to how the Swiss did it. I should have researched a bit more before starting the project. The stock was pretty beat up so I winged it.

Latigo
02-11-2012, 7:25 PM
Sorry, I-M-42. Actually I was talking about the Enfield.

1-M-42
02-11-2012, 7:27 PM
Oh, my bad, I didn't see his post. :sleeping:

rojocorsa
02-11-2012, 7:28 PM
I've been freaking out about wood finishes all day, believe it or not!

I'm thinking I'm just going to take off the shellac of the K-31 and my Mosin (and stain this one), and then just poly-satin them and keep it simple...

I just want my Swiss rifle to look "yellow" and my Russian rifle to look "red." (I'm thinking of a coat or two of cherry stain for that one--or until it's red enough).

Latigo
02-11-2012, 7:31 PM
I've seen Beech k31s refinished in Tru-Oil, and they look incredible.

rojocorsa
02-11-2012, 8:23 PM
http://theswissriflesdotcommessageboard.yuku.com/topic/1140/K31-Beech-Refinish-More-to-Come?page=1#.TzdM1uTm5Ac

Latigo, is this the rifle you were thinking of in the tru oil?

Latigo
02-12-2012, 5:42 AM
That's one of them. He did a great job on that Beech stock. The cleaning process played a big part in that result.

SkyStorm82
02-12-2012, 7:06 AM
If you strip that beech stock and then finish it with tru-oil, will it come out with that "yellow" color that rojo was talking about? Or, do you need to use some type of stain too?

Latigo
02-12-2012, 7:11 AM
A new Beech stock or a correctly cleaned and wood steamed stock coated with un-tinted/stained shellaq (or similar clear medium) will have that original yellowish hue.

*BTW...... You may have to use bleach if the wood is stained or dirt ingrained*

rojocorsa
02-12-2012, 8:29 AM
How do you use bleach for that application?

Latigo
02-12-2012, 9:07 AM
Gloves (heavy rubber), eye protection, old clothes and a scrub brush with a water source very nearby. Strip the stock of it's original finish, use a shallow pan for the bleach/water mix, scrub in sections, briskly and hard, rinse immediately, repeat if necessary and do the next section. Do not immerse in water. :D

rojocorsa
02-12-2012, 11:41 AM
This won't kill the Swiss mark on the stock, right?

Latigo
02-12-2012, 11:49 AM
As long as you don't sand it.

rojocorsa
02-25-2012, 4:07 PM
Started today.

About to bleach the stock.


Here's hoping that it all comes out OK.

rojocorsa
02-28-2012, 2:47 PM
How many coats of Tru-Oil do I need to do?

I'm letting my third one dry right now...

Latigo
02-28-2012, 3:21 PM
Have you been doing 0000Copper Wool in between coats? Its done when you're satisfied with the depth of the glow. The more you add, the deeper it appears to be.
Only you can.......................... ......................... prevent forest fires. :D

rojocorsa
02-28-2012, 5:23 PM
I want to keep it on the more matte side. I am just wondering how much material needs to be on the wood to protect it from the elements.

Latigo
02-28-2012, 5:39 PM
Rojo, only the last coat needs to be gently rubbed down with the 0000 Copper Wool. That will matt the finish. Personally I like 5 coats of TruOil on the few I've done that way.

rojocorsa
02-28-2012, 7:53 PM
I have done 4 coats so far, it's curing. I will see how I like it tomorrow...

rojocorsa
02-28-2012, 7:58 PM
I could not get all the damn stains out, so the stock will have some character. But the wood is smooth and protected now--and that's what matters.