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View Full Version : Why you need to be Cleaner Than Caesar's Wife: Sacto LEOs Lie/Manipulate...


bwiese
02-09-2012, 11:07 AM
Many folks here unfortunately think they can have some kinda thingy on their gun since on it's face it's purely legal exactly as configured.

They forget that aggressive cops raiding/searching a house for some issue - peripheral or totally unrelated - do not necessarily "leave evidentiary items in the state they were originally found", and that the easily-changed states of these items may make it into evidence and eventual charges.

The worry about such charges is that it turns into a "He-said, gunny-said..." situation at trial, instead of an argument about the pure legality of the device/configuration "as it stood".

In particular, the ongoing Sacramento-area investigation of certain LEOs allegedly acquiring & then PPT-selling non-Rostered handguns has led to situations where other guns possessed by perfectly innocent PPT buyers are also examined for other prospective violations, and violations become assumed due to the examination process. [I will not say more than that, please read between the lines.]

Lines are blurred between dishonesty & "manufactured" evidence vs. aggressive handling/examination that mangles the status of a device.
I feel that misrepresentations are being made, esp as some of the parties ensnared Are Very Bright And Risk-Averse And Know The Law - and additionally if they were violators, they'd have ALL their guns in an illegal state as opposed to 'just one' (if you're gonna risk your gunrights for a felony, 1 illegal gun or 10 illegal guns really doesn't matter much, does it?)

This situation boils down to a perfectly fine example of:



NEVER LET A FRIGGIN' LEO INTO YOUR HOUSE WITHOUT A WARRANT. PERIOD.

If they say, "We can get a warrant" - fine, they can do it if they can, and they
likely would have already if they indeed could!

NOTE THAT THE ABOVE SITUATION(S) HAPPENED AFTER "COOPERATION", AND
EXTENDS WELL BEYOND THE ENTIRE PURPOSE OF THE INVESTIGATION.


REMEMBER OUR PAST WARNINGS ABOUT ITEMS LIKE older Prince50 maglocks and
other easily-loosened/easy-to-"convert-to-normal" devices.
.

LEO malfeasance-via-aggressiveness likely doesn't extend to gross parts removals
/substitutions/removals.

Instead, it's the "little tweaky things" that can get outta whack or change status thru
heavy-handed investigation of status - i.e., the evidence gets "Heisenberged".

Some may remember the late 2006 San Jose PD investigation of an OLL: these wild
boys used a sledgehammer to detach the magazine. (In that instance, it was helpful
as it demonstrated that a 'tool' was required to remove the magazine per 11 CCR 5469.)



When agencies get desparate - including the struggling US Attorney involved - corners get cut, things get rushed, and the pressure turns up (esp as applied to poor Joe PPTBuyer).

Since CGF not really involved in this case other than observing what we can, we can only hear what occasionally leaks out or comes to us indirectly and thus infer the above.

I will also add that well-behaved younger folks, especially Asians) who've been brought up in a family background to 'comply with authority' - need to turn that mindset off and remember their 4th Amendment rights.

JeffCinSac
02-09-2012, 11:11 AM
Amen. "Come back with a warrant.". It's that simple, people.

SkyMag68
02-09-2012, 11:31 AM
I guess I'm one of those well-behave younger Asian folk, but am not from Sac and I remember my 4th.thanx Bill for the head up.

bwiese
02-09-2012, 11:39 AM
I guess I'm one of those well-behave younger Asian folk, but am not from Sac and I remember my 4th.thanx Bill for the head up.


Yes, I hope folks don't take this wrong, but when you're accustomed to being polite and a 'gentleman',
it's out of your normal course of behavior to refuse a bunch of armed uniformed people at your door.

Nevertheless, that's what it takes.

"Self-incrimination" includes being perfectly innocent but allowing situations to occur, as I've mentioned
above, to where you can "get compromised".

Librarian
02-09-2012, 12:22 PM
A cautionary tale that really needs no followup - stickied, for a while.