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View Full Version : Laws regarding selling Muzzle brakes


livetooextreme
02-07-2012, 9:49 AM
I am thinking about selling muzzle brakes. Two questions regarding CA laws:
1. Can I have muzzle brakes shipped to me from out of state for my store's inventory?
2. Can I sell muzzle brakes from CA. Some sales may be internet sales to other states.

I do not have an FFL.

Grumpyoldretiredcop
02-07-2012, 10:07 AM
Muzzle brakes are not firearms. If you have to ask this question, you're probably not ready to sell muzzle brakes or anything else firearms related in CA... you may want to study up before you wade in.

Fate
02-07-2012, 11:06 AM
Muzzle brakes or flash hiders aren't restricted in CA. It's when you place them on your rifles that makes certain configurations illegal as flash suppressors are designated as "features" which count towards AW status. With fixed magazines (a la Bullet ButtonŽ) it's a moot issue.

So to answer your questions:
1) yes
2) yes

bwiese
02-07-2012, 11:08 AM
Puzzling question - I can't see the retail muzzle brake business, esp for a gun shop, being that worthy of pursuit.

As it stands, muzzle brakes and even flash hiders can be sold just fine, without any special drama.

DO NOT SELL TO FOREIGN ADDRESSES (export/ITAR crap comes into play).

Do NOT sell Yugo M59 flash hiders as these devices are considered intrinsic grenade launchers as well - nobody shoud own one in CA, regardless if it is on a rifle or not.

Sgt Raven
02-07-2012, 11:28 AM
Puzzling question - I can't see the retail muzzle brake business, esp for a gun shop, being that worthy of pursuit.

As it stands, muzzle brakes and even flash hiders can be sold just fine, without any special drama.

DO NOT SELL TO FOREIGN ADDRESSES (export/ITAR crap comes into play).

Do NOT sell Yugo M59 flash hiders as these devices are considered intrinsic grenade launchers as well - nobody shoud own one in CA, regardless if it is on a rifle or not.

Not just the Yugo M59, IIRC some of the Beretta BM59 muzzle devises were listed as a grenade launcher too.

livetooextreme
02-07-2012, 11:28 AM
Muzzle brakes are not firearms. If you have to ask this question, you're probably not ready to sell muzzle brakes or anything else firearms related in CA... you may want to study up before you wade in.

I know that muzzle brakes are not firearms. I'm originally from Idaho, so I am not familiar with CA gun/gun parts laws. I was just wanting to make sure there wasn't some outrageous law regarding this. Rather than wading through law books and legalese, I knew the people here could provide much appreciated help and point me in the right direction.

Infiniti87
02-07-2012, 11:36 AM
I know that muzzle brakes are not firearms. I'm originally from Idaho, so I am not familiar with CA gun/gun parts laws. I was just wanting to make sure there wasn't some outrageous law regarding this. Rather than wading through law books and legalese, I knew the people here could provide much appreciated help and point me in the right direction.

Not to be a dick but, if you are from out of state and are now selling guns/gun parts in California wouldn't you want to take the time to "wade through law books and legalese" to learn our laws instead of relying on people you don't know to keep yourself from breaking the law? I'm sorry but if I was in your position I would make sure I knew all there was to know about legality issues of the items I'm selling from reading factual law documents. Don't get me wrong there are tons of people on here that know their stuff but I wouldn't want to rely on Joe Schmo to keep me out of legal trouble.

Sent from the rocket in my pocket, my all powerful DROID BIONIC.

garandguy10
02-07-2012, 5:44 PM
Do not sell, transfer or possess any FAL rifle combo devises, or any type of muzzle attachment that was ever designed to be used as a grenade launcher.

Sgt Raven
02-07-2012, 5:52 PM
Do not sell, transfer or possess any FAL rifle combo devises, or any type of muzzle attachment that was ever designed to be a part of, or used as a grenade launcher.

:TFH:What about a Springfield 1903A3 barrel or complete rifle? They were used to launch some WW2 rifle grenades. Some were issued along side M1 Garands till they developed a way for the Garand to use the rifle grenades. :TFH:

CHS
02-07-2012, 6:47 PM
Do not sell, transfer or possess any FAL rifle combo devises, or any type of muzzle attachment that was ever designed to be used as a grenade launcher.

Really? So you mean something like an A2 flash hider?

motorhead
02-07-2012, 11:31 PM
yes, but they must be gift wrapped. those shipped interstate must have a card.

FatalKitty
02-07-2012, 11:34 PM
Not to be a dick but, if you are from out of state and are now selling guns/gun parts in California wouldn't you want to take the time to "wade through law books and legalese" to learn our laws instead of relying on people you don't know to keep yourself from breaking the law? I'm sorry but if I was in your position I would make sure I knew all there was to know about legality issues of the items I'm selling from reading factual law documents. Don't get me wrong there are tons of people on here that know their stuff but I wouldn't want to rely on Joe Schmo to keep me out of legal trouble.

Sent from the rocket in my pocket, my all powerful DROID BIONIC.

we have GREAT legal expertise here.

he is doing research by asking. I can't believe the way some of you people respond to questions on our forum.
If you don't know the answer, FINE - stay out of it.
if you do, then just answer... stop with the drama

motorhead
02-08-2012, 12:00 AM
yeah, i'm guilty as well. just a little gun humor.
OP, you can also sell flash hiders. the distinction is an endless source of contention, since our politburo has yet to define. for the device, it's a moot point until you attach it to a semi-auto, centerfire rifle. as has been said previously, avoid anything with those evil rings that say grenade spigot. aint it cool that nato grenades don't need a spigot?

gunsandrockets
02-08-2012, 2:06 AM
Really? So you mean something like an A2 flash hider?

Exactly right. Those flash suppressors are just as illegal.

It seems California law enforcement has taken the poorly worded laws prohibiting 'bomb launchers' and bootstrapped them into banning the Yugo SKS.

Funny. I don't remember the DOJ kicking up a fuss over the French MAS 36/51 rifles, which also have an integral rifle-grenade spigot launcher. I suspect the real reason the Yugo SKS were cracked down on is because they are semi-auto rifles, and the grenade launcher was the easiest excuse to interfere with legal sales.

The thing is that the legal rationalization which outlaws that Yugo SKS, and also outlaws the detachable spigot launcher for the M-1 rifle, should by any reasonable interpretation also apply to standard AR flash suppressors. Since the standard AR flash suppressor is a dual purpose device intended to aid launch of spigot type rifle grenades. Hell, taken to logical extremes that law would even outlaw any .308 or 30-06 rifles without a muzzle device, since back around WWI the US Army used a rifle grenade with a skinny long-rod tail boom inserted into the bore of the rifle for propulsion.

So why doesn't the DOJ crack down? Either they are too ignorant to recognize the full implications of their own legal justifications, or they want to avoid the stink from arresting dozens of California law enforcement people who own AR type rifles with the offending suppressor/grenade-launcher.

tenpercentfirearms
02-08-2012, 5:56 AM
Not to be a dick but, if you are from out of state and are now selling guns/gun parts in California wouldn't you want to take the time to "wade through law books and legalese" to learn our laws instead of relying on people you don't know to keep yourself from breaking the law? I'm sorry but if I was in your position I would make sure I knew all there was to know about legality issues of the items I'm selling from reading factual law documents. Don't get me wrong there are tons of people on here that know their stuff but I wouldn't want to rely on Joe Schmo to keep me out of legal trouble.

Sent from the rocket in my pocket, my all powerful DROID BIONIC.

No you are being a dick. He is educating himself through Calguns. If he were to read the law looking for something to say these items are banned, he would never find it. Which in a 12 page book of laws isn't a big deal. How many pages are in the California Penal Code?

http://www.amazon.com/California-Penal-Code-Desktop-Codes/dp/0314997784/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328712934&sr=8-1

2890

Lay off.