PDA

View Full Version : Gun Store questions


CaliJatt
02-06-2012, 9:45 PM
Hello to all, I am working on creating a firearms store and had some questions that hopefully can be answered.

1. How much would the electricity bill be for a firearms establishment, that plans to run a barrel lathe, and drill presses?

2. How many firearms are sold at the shop each year for the first five years of opening up?

3. What are the percentages of pistols rifles and shotguns sold?

4. How many boxes of ammo do you sell in a year, and what is the break down per a firearm sold?

5. How many other accessories are sold each year? (refering to mags, optics, shooting supplies, and etc)

Any and all help will be welcomed.

alfred1222
02-07-2012, 12:23 AM
Try posting this in the FFL forum. they are the kind of people who can give you more directed help. also, try PMing some individual vendors, they are listed under the WTB forum

22AlterEgo50
02-07-2012, 5:51 PM
Well on the basis of figuring out the numbers myself, and begging people to give me info, I think I will be able to help you. But first dont expect to become a millionaire.

Q1. The Utilities will probably be around 500 a month and that would
be an absolute max.

Q2. The projection That I had for opening up a firearms store were 150
to 175 firearms(If it is a focus in black rifles) the first year and
about 75 firearms sale increase each year for the first 4 years, after
that it will begin to flatten out.

Q3. You will probably sell around 35 to 40% pistols, 40 to 45% rifles,
and 20 to 25% shotguns.
Q4. I estimated around 4 to 5 boxes of ammo to be sold for each
firearm sold including people who will just purchase ammo.

Q5. The accessories sales will most likely be half of you firearms
sales since there are a lot of accessories out there and most people
buy that stuff online.

Where are you trying to open up a shop at?

CaliJatt
02-11-2012, 4:35 PM
Thank you for the info sir. I am currently thinking about opening up a shop in Manteca CA. If I have any more questions do you think you could help me with them?

22AlterEgo50
02-13-2012, 4:40 PM
Ok sure I can help you out a little bit. Ill dredge up my notes from my office.

CaliJatt
02-13-2012, 4:55 PM
Sweet!

How many transfers do you think one can expect from the first year and the growth of transfers from year to year?

How many firearms do you think you will put scopes on and how much would you charge for the service?

what other services do you think you would be a good idea to offer, and how many can you expect to sell of them?

Finally what would be the prices you would offer for each service (transfers, mounting, etc)?

22AlterEgo50
02-13-2012, 11:13 PM
Well these numbers are hard to determine but going to many shops over the past years I can recall a few numbers. Some of this is just data points in my personal notes.
Transfers are hard to determine because it depends on customers standings with their current "go to" dealer. I would think around 15 a year and it could go up but I doubt it. Most transfers are over $100, and a fair assumption would be $125. Scope mounting is something everyone does and is not really expensive because of competition. Usually around $60 is typical and expect 20 installations with an increase of a couple every year, but this does saturate out. (it wont go to infinity obviously or 100 either). This should only apply if the customer purchases the scope from you, which is what most other stores do. Something I found to pretty lucrative was firearm inspections. People with older firearms or firearms in bad condition need them checked out for safe operation. This along with a "complementary" cleaning will get customers to speak very highly of you. You could charge anything around $60. Since older used rifles and pistols are favored for their lower price you could expect at least 10 people walking through the door per year and not much of increase.

boamedt
02-14-2012, 7:48 AM
Try not ripping people off with transfersfor $125, just a.thought from a customer who would rather drive 2hrs to a store just because they they charge$25 for a transfer....i dont get where stores get the idea that charging that much.will make the customer come to his store and buy it. I will never ne gouged that much for you, guns are already retarded expensive...i bet u if u did this ine service for cheap, people would b in ur store all day

CaliJatt
02-14-2012, 4:29 PM
Is that $35.00 for a new firearm purchase from an online retailer thomashoward? Same question for you as well boamedt. Also what are the profit margins like for firearms?

boamedt
02-14-2012, 7:27 PM
Ya it seems every "deal" u can find online, let alone a deal u find and they will ship to cali, is ruined or ends up not being a deal bcuz u get charged $150 just for your ffl to accept. Charging that much, imho, is a polite way to tell u they dont want to be bothered with any of that stuff

wrightb
02-14-2012, 10:36 PM
Manteca might be a tough area, you have pretty well established gun stores with good reputations in any direction you go, plus Bass Pro right there in town. I would focus some serious attention on how you can make your store different than the rest.

CaliJatt
02-14-2012, 11:56 PM
Blak rifles baby! :)

Cylarz
02-15-2012, 12:53 AM
Where are these wonderful $35 transfer FFLs of which you speak? All of the ones here in Sacramento charge well over $100.

It sure seemed absurd to me to stick me for that much just for signing the UPS driver's pad and stashing the gun in the stock room for a week and a half...plus the ten minutes or so one of the store employees spends having me fill out a DROS form. It's a ripoff but I figured that was the going rate.

Dingoguns
02-15-2012, 2:59 AM
If you think that we actually only spend 15 minutes dealing with your firearm, then I can see where the irritation comes from. However, in general I spend around an hour of my time dealing with each transfer that comes in. Consequently, I charge $60 for my transfers, be they handguns or long guns.

If the transfer is coming from someone you're established with, then it's quite easy. However, since Gunbroker came out this is rarely the case. All you have to do is send them a check; we're the one's that have to liase with them, and this is often easier said than done.

If they miss the fax 3 days in a row? Guess what, I have to send my FFL to them 3 times. If they are on east coast time, and work odd hours? I'll be the one calling repeatedly at 0500, trying to find out why their fax won't work. I'm constantly amazed at how many people don't have a dedicated fax line.

If they don't know what a CFLC number is? Guess who gets to educate them, and explain how to do it? If I find out that the handgun you ordered isn't on the roster? Guess who gets to contact them and explain why the buyer can't complete the contract?

Then on the flip side: what if the gun isn't as described, or has an issue? Guess who's going to stand in line at the post office or set up a pickup with UPS/FedEx?

That's aside from getting all of the paperwork properly filled out, talking to the buyer ("what do you mean I can't use my Driver's License as proof of residency? I only moved twice". "No, the car and all of the utilities are in my girlfriend's name") and safe space (which can be at a premium if you have 18 people who are going to wait 26 days before picking up their rifles).

Please don't think I'm trying to be rude, it's just frustrating sometimes that people take it for granted that what they actually SEE is the only work that we DO. That is simply not the case.

On top of that, let's hypothetically say you ask me about a rifle I don't have in stock, and I give you a great price on it where I make $90 after shipping, and it's still well below MSRP. Well, you saw the same rifle on Bud's for $90 less. Despite giving you a good deal, I'm now in the position where I can match their price and get you the rifle for $0 profit, but since I have to pay $10 to get this rifle shipped in, I am now making $-10. Or I can charge you $60 for my time and leave the shipping, billing and other stuff up to you. Now at least I'm making $60, so at least I can still afford to pay the power bill every month.

When my transfer rate was $45, my inventory sat and I did transfers all day (and did at least twice as much work!). Since then my fee has gone up, and I've been able to sell some of my stock and make a little more money (heck, sometimes even a decent profit!). I also still do plenty of transfers, since the next-closest guy in town charges $90. :p

I'm not trying to threadjack; I saw not only the opportunity to give the OP a little more insight into the whole transfer issue, but also hopefully to share the less obvious work of FFL's that goes on behind the scenes. 15 minutes? I wish! Maybe for the guys at Big 5... :rolleyes:

kemasa
02-15-2012, 8:28 AM
In addition to what was said above, there is also the cost of overhead to consider. All of the fees, licenses, permits and insurance can add up to quite a bit of money, as well as the time to get all the permits and licenses, as well as inspections. There is also all the time spent on dealing with sales tax and income. The sales tax is annoying since the FFL has to collect it, fill out the sales tax return, but does not get anything for this as it is all part of the overhead. In addition, the BOE forces you to round the amounts to dollars and it always seems that they win by this method such that I end up paying more than I actually collected. This means there is a lot that the customer does not see and just because you don't see it does not mean it does not exist.

The stock response, which customers hate, is that if you really think that there is good money there to do the transfers for a really low amount, then go and get all the permits and licenses and do it. This is really the only way to show the person what they are missing.

CaliJatt
02-15-2012, 9:32 PM
I think having the transfer fee at 125 as indicated by 22alterego50 sounds reasonable for the area. And is backed up by what the FFL Dealers are saying. Thanks for point discussion guys. :)

Cylarz
02-15-2012, 11:42 PM
If you think that we actually only spend 15 minutes dealing with your firearm, then I can see where the irritation comes from. However, in general I spend around an hour of my time dealing with each transfer that comes in. Consequently, I charge $60 for my transfers, be they handguns or long guns.


If you say so. I would question how often the situations you describe, really become an issue.

Because I do everything I can to make things easy for the FFL - I come to the store with full contact information written down (once I even asked for, and received, permission to step behind the counter to retrieve the seller's address because the employee apparently didn't know how to use Google). I don't attempt to have non-CA-legal firearms shipped in, and I can fill out the DROS form in my sleep because I've done it so many times. Oh, and I bring my vehicle registration into the store along with my driver license if I need a 2nd form of gov't-issued ID. I do sympathize if your buyers do not have their ducks in a row.

Meanwhile I'm prohibited from doing business with a huge chunk of the sellers on Gunbroker, because all three FFL's in my area will flat-out-refuse to do business with any seller who isn't himself an FFL (WTF does THAT matter?). And then make me wait **20 minutes** when I come to pick up my gun, because they can't hire enough staff to wait on the customers in a timely manner....or like the other guy pointed out, because they're busy having a chat behind the counter.

I'm sorry you're having to go through so much trouble just to run your business. Tell you what - you've still got the competition beat by $50, so next time I'll make the short drive to Napa and do business with you instead. I was just over in Sonoma County last week anyway to do some hiking and will visit the area again in the future.

Dingoguns
02-16-2012, 2:43 AM
If you say so. I would question how often the situations you describe, really become an issue.

Because I do everything I can to make things easy for the FFL - I come to the store with full contact information written down (once I even asked for, and received, permission to step behind the counter to retrieve the seller's address because the employee apparently didn't know how to use Google). I don't attempt to have non-CA-legal firearms shipped in, and I can fill out the DROS form in my sleep because I've done it so many times. Oh, and I bring my vehicle registration into the store along with my driver license if I need a 2nd form of gov't-issued ID. I do sympathize if your buyers do not have their ducks in a row.

Meanwhile I'm prohibited from doing business with a huge chunk of the sellers on Gunbroker, because all three FFL's in my area will flat-out-refuse to do business with any seller who isn't himself an FFL (WTF does THAT matter?). And then make me wait **20 minutes** when I come to pick up my gun, because they can't hire enough staff to wait on the customers in a timely manner....or like the other guy pointed out, because they're busy having a chat behind the counter.

I'm sorry you're having to go through so much trouble just to run your business. Tell you what - you've still got the competition beat by $50, so next time I'll make the short drive to Napa and do business with you instead. I was just over in Sonoma County last week anyway to do some hiking and will visit the area again in the future.


With that being the case, sir, then I salute you. You truly cannot appreciate the immense relief I feel on the rare occasion that a customer actually does have every single one of his ducks in a row! Unfortunately, customers like you are truly the minority. I have to base my fees on the assumption that there WILL be some kind of issue like those mentioned, because otherwise I frankly wouldn't be in business for very long.

On the flip side of this, I feel your pain as well! The reason I started this business was because I was sick and tired of dealing with sellers of the type you describe; frankly, I knew I could do better.

I would absolutely love it if you stopped by! I can always use another customer, especially one who has his stuff together. Mind you, I don't mind helping folks figure things out with the laws and requirements as convoluted as they are, but having someone show up and have everything good to go is a veritable breath of fresh air.

I'm currently by appointment only, but my afternoon/evening availability is very open. I'm happy to accept shipments from private parties (provided they include a copy of their ID), and the only way you'll wait 20 minutes for me is if you show up 20 minutes early. Probably not even then.

Ripon83
02-16-2012, 9:32 AM
I think it'd be fun to own and run a gun shop, and I'm certain it'd cost me a fortune I don't have. Why anyone thinks they bank huge dollars and are ripoffs I don't know. Mind you I've had bad experiences ( even recently ) there are plenty of good one's.

Cylarz
02-16-2012, 8:17 PM
I'm currently by appointment only, but my afternoon/evening availability is very open. I'm happy to accept shipments from private parties (provided they include a copy of their ID), and the only way you'll wait 20 minutes for me is if you show up 20 minutes early. Probably not even then.

I've sent you a message through your store website. Please watch for it.