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yugzster
02-04-2012, 9:20 PM
I had many workers in my home several days retrofitting windows/AC/Heat etc. I had a LC9 stashed under books on a shelf under my nightstand...WELL Concealed. Needless to say...It disappeared. I know I have to report it stolen. This just happened. I'm concerned about my CCW and how much trouble I might get in. Anyone have any input????

wildhawker
02-04-2012, 9:23 PM
What are you specifically worried about here?

Please cite something so we can speak intelligently. Otherwise, you're asking for more speculation in response to speculation - never a good or productive idea for these sorts of issues.

-Brandon

stitchnicklas
02-04-2012, 9:31 PM
report it along with all information about workers and their companies,you will most likely get it back since one of those douches probably still has it..:rolleyes:

johnthomas
02-04-2012, 9:44 PM
If you don't have a safe, you might think about one of those in wall safes in your closet behind the clothes. You say it was well concealed, tongue in cheek I imagine, it did get stolen. You are required to report it. If you have young kids in the house, the officer taking the report might question why it wasn't locked up.

Fern
02-04-2012, 10:34 PM
Contact the Contractor's and let them know what happened and that you have contacted the Police. Put the ball in their court that they may be liable for any outcome from the stolen firearm.

L84CABO
02-04-2012, 11:36 PM
Um...why wasn't the gun locked up while you had workers in the house?

Window_Seat
02-05-2012, 12:13 AM
report it along with all information about workers and their companies,you will most likely get it back since one of those douches probably still has it..:rolleyes:

At least before someone uses that firearm for a purpose that isn't as nice as that nice friendly kitty cat that God is about to place into that high speed wood chipper if you don't report it. Meow. :eek:

Erik.

D4ZORT
02-05-2012, 12:18 AM
:ban: Was it a troll? He hasn't come back.

RRichie09
02-05-2012, 1:04 AM
maybe the brady campaign started the thread and will add it to their propaganda of how legal guns are stolen by criminals so even legal guns are bad.

ldsnet
02-05-2012, 2:01 AM
The last time I had contractors in the house, the only gun not in a safe was the one on my HIP.

Ford8N
02-05-2012, 6:28 AM
This is why I never allow anyone inside the security zone. I'll do my own work. You would be suprised how many contractors and their workers talk to their buddies what they saw in the customers house and TELL THE ADDRESS WHERE IT'S LOCATED.

rudigan
02-05-2012, 6:37 AM
Um...why wasn't the gun locked up while you had workers in the house?

^^^^^^This. And possible troll.

VictorFranko
02-05-2012, 6:43 AM
Um...why wasn't the gun locked up while you had workers in the house?

Agreed. I have really tired of people whining about their guns being stolen from under their beds or from their closets.
Responsible gun owners have real safes.

vincewarde
02-05-2012, 2:47 PM
It's always a personal judgement call as to how to store a defensive firearm. Personally, I keep all my "ready guns" in electronic safes. The backup keys are in a combo safe.

I can be into any of the safes very quickly, I don't have to worry about the grandchildren and it lessons the chances of an intruder using my own gun against me.

Not to mention that the safes make my guns much harder to steal.

rodeoflyer
02-05-2012, 3:31 PM
I find it hard to believe that someone smart enough to get a ccw was dumb enough to leave a gun out where someone could get it.

Steve1968LS2
02-05-2012, 3:38 PM
I find it hard to believe this was someone's first post and that they haven't posted since..

Munk
02-05-2012, 8:09 PM
I find it hard to believe this was someone's first post and that they haven't posted since..

could it be that he contacted a lawyer and actually followed the usual default advice of "Shut up, stop talking about it, don't say anything, speaking is bad, no more words out of your mouth"?

yugzster
02-06-2012, 1:39 AM
Yes, all are correct. I have a substantial hidden safe (rifles, handguns & valuables). This was an egregious error on my part. I live alone. The shelf the LC9 was on is about 4 inches under the top. The gun was covered by books, was against the wall and could not be seen. When the workers showed up early, I was awoken abruptly and walked right to the door. 6 to 8 workers were walking around and covering up stuff in plastic 5 minutes later. All the furniture including the night table was covered.

By the time I was really awake, the furniture in the room was covered, as were all the rooms in the house, and remained covered (and taped to the walls) the rest of the day. When they cleared out that day I checked...and yeah....it was gone. It's a big company (with some subs working) and I immediately demanded to speak to the owner as I didn't want to mention it to any lower level supervisors. I wanted the heat to come from their boss. I gave him until Monday C.O.B. to resolve it, and I will go to the police.

I have a CCW. I'm concerned the police may react the same way some of you folks did (correctly), and say "your an idiot and we're taking away your CCW". Also I'm wondering if I might be charged with a misdemeanor.

Lastly, and this is not an excuse; I recently had major back surgery and take medication to sleep. I was in a fog for the first 15 or 20 minutes. Believe me, no casual observer could see the weapon. The table would have had to be moved, to be able to see behind the books. And that is what I believe happened when the room was tarped.

I've been a reader of the forums for some time, and have learned a great deal from you experienced folks. This is just my first post. Thanks again. And yeah, I'm stressed more than you folks can imagine.

k1dude
02-06-2012, 2:00 AM
Back in the 90's I was having my house remodeled. Came home and found a bunch of my stuff gone including 2 guns. My contractor couldn't believe it and vouched for all his guys. Cops came over and within 15 minutes arrested 2 of the workers (one was the younger brother of the general contractor). Sure enough, they got the right guys.

From my life's experiences, I NEVER hire maids and very begrudgingly allow workers in my home. I've been ripped off too many times.

Good luck. I hope they catch the bastards. Effing thieves.

wikioutdoor
02-06-2012, 6:53 AM
Look op it's a simple as this you messed up. It happens. Don't make excuses. But now there is a gun out on the streets being passed around and you have a responsibility to the rest of us to do the right thing and report it.

If it ends up being used in a crime there going to take your CCW away any way if you don't report it. And then obviously your mistake was used against someone else.

It's that simple, you only have 1 right course of action.

12voltguy
02-06-2012, 8:51 AM
Yes, all are correct. I have a substantial hidden safe (rifles, handguns & valuables). This was an egregious error on my part. I live alone. The shelf the LC9 was on is about 4 inches under the top. The gun was covered by books, was against the wall and could not be seen. When the workers showed up early, I was awoken abruptly and walked right to the door. 6 to 8 workers were walking around and covering up stuff in plastic 5 minutes later. All the furniture including the night table was covered.

By the time I was really awake, the furniture in the room was covered, as were all the rooms in the house, and remained covered (and taped to the walls) the rest of the day. When they cleared out that day I checked...and yeah....it was gone. It's a big company (with some subs working) and I immediately demanded to speak to the owner as I didn't want to mention it to any lower level supervisors. I wanted the heat to come from their boss. I gave him until Monday C.O.B. to resolve it, and I will go to the police.I have a CCW. I'm concerned the police may react the same way some of you folks did (correctly), and say "your an idiot and we're taking away your CCW". Also I'm wondering if I might be charged with a misdemeanor.

Lastly, and this is not an excuse; I recently had major back surgery and take medication to sleep. I was in a fog for the first 15 or 20 minutes. Believe me, no casual observer could see the weapon. The table would have had to be moved, to be able to see behind the books. And that is what I believe happened when the room was tarped.

I've been a reader of the forums for some time, and have learned a great deal from you experienced folks. This is just my first post. Thanks again. And yeah, I'm stressed more than you folks can imagine.

you needed to report stolen right away
pretty sure you just made a ton of trouble for yourself now.
1st question you will be asked is "when was it stolen"...........

mossy
02-06-2012, 9:14 AM
I gave him until Monday C.O.B. to resolve it, and I will go to the police.



well if you delayed reporting the gun stolen you just made a ton of trouble for yourself, they WILL ask when it was stolen and want to know why you delayed reporting it stolen.

zhyla
02-06-2012, 9:18 AM
Why make such a big deal about it? It's just stolen property. Make a stink with the company, report it stolen to the police, and hope for the best.

Backcountry
02-06-2012, 9:27 AM
Bye-bye CCW... you should have reported it stolen imediatly. If the gun is used in a crime you could be civily liable. Not smart.

yugzster
02-06-2012, 10:06 AM
Gee, maybe I have the opportunity to teach you fine folks something. (Or maybe I'm wrong again.)

I IMMEDIATELY called someone I know at the the Golden State Second Amendment Council, for advice. I was told I have 5 days from when I know about it, to report it. I discovered it missing Thursday night. I called the GSSAC...Thursday night. I called the company THURSDAY NIGHT, and they were closed. I called them Friday and worked my way to the owner of the company by Friday afternoon. I told him he had until Monday (essentially 1 business day, to resolve it, AND it WILL be reported Monday), and he should expect the police to rain down on his folks. Technically I was told I have until Tuesday to report it.

Keep asking questions. Don't judge yet. I got council. I just was wondering what I could expect might happen to me after I call the police.

Thanks.

Backcountry
02-06-2012, 10:14 AM
Your council was wrong... at a minimum, you will be CIVILY liable if that gun is used to kill someone while you are not reporting to the Police that your handgun has been stolen, especially if the Police would have had a reasonable chance to recover the handgun over the 5 days you are callously disregarding public safety.

Don't shoot the messenger... I'm pitching it to you exactly as a prosecutor or plantiff's lawyer would to a jury of your peers... now is the time to be worried. Hoep you get your gun back and nothing bad comes of this, but the lesson to be learned is to IMMEDIATLY report the theft to the Police.

tlboss57
02-06-2012, 10:28 AM
Report it, Having a gun in your house is not a crime,
The police are there to help.
If the dirt bag use's the gun or sales it, It could get bad for you .
Call

Flopper
02-06-2012, 4:37 PM
Gee, maybe I have the opportunity to teach you fine folks something. (Or maybe I'm wrong again.)

I IMMEDIATELY called someone I know at the the Golden State Second Amendment Council, for advice. I was told I have 5 days from when I know about it, to report it. I discovered it missing Thursday night. I called the GSSAC...Thursday night. I called the company THURSDAY NIGHT, and they were closed. I called them Friday and worked my way to the owner of the company by Friday afternoon. I told him he had until Monday (essentially 1 business day, to resolve it, AND it WILL be reported Monday), and he should expect the police to rain down on his folks. Technically I was told I have until Tuesday to report it.

Keep asking questions. Don't judge yet. I got council. I just was wondering what I could expect might happen to me after I call the police.

Thanks.

I have never seen any penalty in the CA Penal Code for not reporting a stolen firearm, much less a "Five day report it or else!" section.

Even the best our buddies at LCAV could come up with is this (surprisingly helpful) bit of info:

In California. . . persons who report the theft or loss of a handgun may claim an exception to the state's prohibition on the purchase of more than one handgun in any 30-day period. http://www.lcav.org/content/reporting_lost_stolen.pdf

yugzster
02-07-2012, 12:59 AM
Thanks for all the help. Made the report. (I did spend the weekend ripping my house and safe apart to be sure it hadn't been moved or misplaced). All is well with the police. They have the names and numbers for everyone that was in my home (from the owner of the company that did the work).

Interesting comments on the "five days". The two lawyers and three experts (store owners and CCW trainers) all said "5 days from when you knew it was gone". I appreciate your advice in all this. While it doesn't seem to make sense that the law allows 5 days, the Second Amendment Council, and folks I consider to be very involved legally in second amendment rights, all immediately said "5 days". Several said the statute was nebulous enough such that you could not be prosecuted if you went over the five days. And, I am the victim of a crime, not the other way around.

At the end of the day I'm sick to my stomach thinking where my LC9 might be and the damage it might cause. Let my mistake be a lesson.

smith629
02-07-2012, 1:17 AM
Most replies so far in this thread make no sense.

If a criminal steals your gun, you become aware that you have been robbed, and later the same criminal commits a crime with your gun, how are you liable? You were not a party to the crime, have no knowledge of the act that is to be committed, and the criminal is using stolen property without your permission. The criminal could have just as well committed a crime with a stolen knife or heck, a stolen canoe paddle if said criminal has been watching enough television. What does the stolen property have to do with anything? How does stolen property imply a criminal act with said stolen property?

So far the logic in this thread and or current law which I am unaware of either implies or leads to the fact that I can be thrown in jail if I notice some of my kayak equipment is missing from the garage and don't report it to the police. LOL.

philobeddoe
02-07-2012, 1:30 AM
good luck, I'll bet it goes your way

RRichie09
02-07-2012, 1:33 AM
Thanks for all the help. Made the report. (I did spend the weekend ripping my house and safe apart to be sure it hadn't been moved or misplaced). All is well with the police. They have the names and numbers for everyone that was in my home (from the owner of the company that did the work).

Interesting comments on the "five days". The two lawyers and three experts (store owners and CCW trainers) all said "5 days from when you knew it was gone". I appreciate your advice in all this. While it doesn't seem to make sense that the law allows 5 days, the Second Amendment Council, and folks I consider to be very involved legally in second amendment rights, all immediately said "5 days". Several said the statute was nebulous enough such that you could not be prosecuted if you went over the five days. And, I am the victim of a crime, not the other way around.

At the end of the day I'm sick to my stomach thinking where my LC9 might be and the damage it might cause. Let my mistake be a lesson.

Well since you are real. I truly hope this ends well and you get your LC9 back. Let us know what happens.

Flopper
02-07-2012, 9:39 AM
Interesting comments on the "five days". The two lawyers and three experts (store owners and CCW trainers) all said "5 days from when you knew it was gone". I appreciate your advice in all this. While it doesn't seem to make sense that the law allows 5 days, the Second Amendment Council, and folks I consider to be very involved legally in second amendment rights, all immediately said "5 days".

Most lawyers know very little about gun law. Law is a specialized profession as is, but gun law--especially modern gun law--is such a niche that your average attorney knows effectually very little of it.

Gun store owners and CCW trainers are hit or miss with firearms law knowledge--there's a reason gun store owners retain firearms attorneys.

Several said the statute was nebulous enough such that you could not be prosecuted if you went over the five days.

So nebulous that no one can cite the Penal Code section for it.

That being said: good luck with your situation, and stick around Calguns--you made it to the right place.

yugzster
02-07-2012, 7:12 PM
I appreciate the comments. I would have reacted the same had I seen the post from someone else, and probably said "you're an idiot and probably in a boatload of trouble...report it now". I hope I didn't give the wrong impression in my first post. I was NEVER considering not reporting it to the police. The many workers (from 4 different companies) had been gone for half a day.

Putting my error aside, let's not forget the laws are out there to protect us too. My council specializes in this type of law. I called them 30 seconds after I noticed it missing. No excuses here, EVERYONE had the same legal advice...EVERYONE. I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV. But since this happened, my research has confirmed their advice. I'm wondering why there are differing opinions about it?

We need to be responsible with our firearms. How paranoid do we need to be? I don't have a hand safe, because I don't feel comfortable with it. Because I think someone could break into my house and walk with it (or pry it off any wall it's bolted to). What if I did have a hand safe and that was stolen with the firearm inside? Would folks still be saying you can kiss your CCW goodbye? I know no one can walk with my 5 foot safe. But that's my choice. And it's hard to hide. I couldn't hide the safe well enough so that some workers replacing some ductwork wouldn't see it.

I've seen folks do some pretty creative stuff, including turning their VCR into a gun safe, so they could keep their handgun inside and within reach. They believe it's concealed...(until someone steals their VCR). I really believed unless you knocked all the books off that shelf in my home (why would you?) you wouldn't know a gun was there or accidenally stumble across it. If a handsafe was hidden there, would it have been gone....maybe? Maybe not???

I had a friend who kept 357's all over his house under magazine stacks. I thought he was nuts. I found out 15 years later he was in the witness relocation program.

I'm not trying to stir things up, I'm just trying to think things through.

I'll let you know how this all works out.

Sorry for the long post. I'm a newbie

hammerhead_77
02-07-2012, 8:37 PM
You also have to remember that many (most?) of the people who participate on this forum have been in PRK long enough that they have Battered Gun Owner's Syndrome.

The laws here are so bad we just assume we're always screwed...and are often right.

GettoPhilosopher
02-07-2012, 9:04 PM
You also have to remember that many (most?) of the people who participate on this forum have been in PRK long enough that they have Battered Gun Owner's Syndrome.

The laws here are so bad we just assume we're always screwed...and are often right.

Right.

Gun Owner #1: "Is X illegal?"
Gun Owner #2: "Probably"

;)


I was SHOCKED when I found out CA CCW allows carry on college campuses. I'd never looked into it, I just assumed that there was no way in hades that CA's CCW laws could in any way be "better" than AZ/TX/NV/etc. I was pleasantly shocked to find out (in this instance) I was wrong.

IntoForever
02-07-2012, 9:04 PM
Questioning the workers doesn't always go as planned. I've seen idiots who were caught doing something deny it outright. Stupidity is amazing. Good luck on getting that back.

ubet
02-07-2012, 9:35 PM
OP, Glad you reported it, should have done it in the beginning imo, but at least you did it and hope you get it back. Gun owners are a lot like the GOP, they will throw their own under the bus in a blink of an eye in order to try to appeal to the opposite side.