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SKSer45
02-04-2012, 11:46 AM
Me and blitz are going to be doing a swiss match so I got a few ?'s for you.

First is zeroing our k31s. Its @ 100 yards or meters?

2ndly do k31 have certain Zero Targets like M-16/SKS/ak Do?

IF they do be much obliged if you can point us to that directions.

Thanks baby :)

Latigo
02-04-2012, 12:37 PM
All sanctioned Swiss matches are 300 meters, or 328 yards. Are you shooting open sights or Diopter?

SKSer45
02-04-2012, 12:41 PM
Real men use Open sights!! har har!! plus I don't have 3 bills to buy a DIOPTER lol. The old man Blitz does however...grrr

Blitzburgh
02-04-2012, 12:53 PM
Real men use Open sights!!

Real men go home with medals. :)

SKSer45
02-04-2012, 1:09 PM
Lol no you didn't! Mark my word I will bring a Swiss medal back home too! Latigo its possible to do it with just open sights right?

Blitzburgh
02-04-2012, 1:16 PM
Lol no you didn't! Mark my word I will bring a Swiss medal back home too! Latigo its possible to do it with just open sights right?

Quoted! Now you can't go back and change it later.. you know... after you stop crying on the way home?

Blitzburgh
02-04-2012, 1:20 PM
I have a question about scoring for anybody that knows or has shot a Swiss match, how is it done?

I've been searching around, and am on the Carmel Gun Club's website but it really doesn't say how the matches are scored.

Can anybody help or point me in the right direction? Thanks!

Latigo
02-04-2012, 2:03 PM
Open sight are fine.
Standby, Blitzer.

Latigo
02-04-2012, 2:19 PM
Info and contact.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Swiss Shooters, Schedule for April 16th
Fees: Required $20 range fee, $30 GP 11
Optional: Meal $7,*Feldstich $15
*** Send RSVP schuetzenmeister@feldschiessen.us no later than*April 14th ***

The April match is just around the corner.* This month will bring an additional medal opportunity known as the Feldstich so you do not want to miss this one.* We are going to have some more great prizes from Swiss Products LLC and Czechmauseritus Leather Specialties up for grabs.* The prizes will be given out for participation not performance!* Please RSVP so we can get a jump on squading shooters into teams for the Rütlischiessen.
Einzelwettschiessen Program D: 15 shots, prone, ordnance rifle, A10 target
The course of fire for the EWS D is 10 shots slow fire prone on the A10 Target with targets scored after every shot. This is followed by a 5 round string fired in succession blind. Shots will be scored after all shooters have completed their string. Sighters are allowed prior to the record shots. Ordnance rifle includes Karabiner, Stgw 57 / 90.

Rütlischiessen: 15 shots, kneeling, ordnance rifle only, no sighters
This will be CGC’s first unofficial rendition of the famous Rütlischiessen. For those of you that do not know: Rütli is known as the birthplace of the Swiss Confederation since it is the location of the legendary Rütlischwur, the oath sworn in 1291 between the original 3 cantons; Schwyz, Uri and Unterwalden. The Rütlischiessen as a shooting event is almost as historic having a lineage going back to the 1860s.

This event’s course of fire, kneeling and rapid fire, adds up to a very challenging match. No sighters and record shots fired in 3 strings. The first string is 3 shots in 1 minute, 6 shots in 2 minutes followed by an additional 6 shots in 2 minutes. This will be done on the A5 target and scores will be shown between strings not on individual shots. In addition to score shot the shooter will receive an additional point for every hit. The maximum score is 90 (75 points + 15 hits). This is kneeling only, a kneeling roll or similar may be used and you may use your sling.

For information on the original Rütlischiessen go to: http://www.ruetlischiessen.ch/ch/
Feldstich: 18 shots, prone supported, ordnance rifle, B4 target, sighters permitted
The continuation of the long lived Feldschlösschen-stich. This match allows shooters to hone their skills for the Eidg. Feldschiessen and offers the shooters an additional opportunity to earn an attractive medal. The Feldschiessen course of fire is used with the exception of sighting shots; 1 x 6 rounds slow fire in 6 minutes scored individually, 2 x 3 rounds rapid fire in 60 seconds scored after each string, 1 x 6 rounds rapid fire in 60 seconds scored at the end of the string.

For more information go to: http://www.fst-ssv.ch/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-142/145_read-5122/*
The meal will not be served until late in the day; so make sure you bring some snacks and beverages to tide you over. Arrive at 8:00 to assist in set-up and registration so we can start promptly at 9:00. More information on the matches and their format can be found at http://feldschiessen.us
Guät Schuss!!
Gerald Pippin
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll have more shortly.

Latigo
02-04-2012, 2:23 PM
Ok, I have asked a Swiss Match organizer from the Canadian Swiss Shooting Club to come in here and field questions. His handle is Diaopter (Carlos) and what he doesn't know about it isn't worth knowing.

Standby.

paul0660
02-04-2012, 2:26 PM
Latigo, do you know the 45er is 18, or maybe 19 years old?

Please do not expend extra effort, it just make the smoke travel up your butt faster.

Latigo
02-04-2012, 2:29 PM
No, I didn't. I'm not sure that would make a difference if he's factually interested in Swiss shooting, but I was beginning to wonder if you were light in the loafers, SKSer! :D

paul0660
02-04-2012, 2:33 PM
Latigo, have enjoyed dozens of your posts elsewhere as I have bought and sold a dozen K31's, and ended up with the best one. Best thing about the 45er, if he lives long enough, he will grow up.

1-M-42
02-04-2012, 2:34 PM
Latigo,

Unless I'm just missing it, I don't see a location for the math you listed. Where's it at? Also, the link, http://www.ruetlischiessen.ch/ch/, is in Swiss. Is there a way to get it in English, I'd love to read up on it.

Latigo
02-04-2012, 2:35 PM
Actually the reason I asked Kestryll about a stickie here is because my Sister has a history with him, and she thought it would be good to give CalGuns its own Swiss rifle source for info. Now that I see the interest, I sure do agree with her. :D

Latigo
02-04-2012, 2:37 PM
1-M-42, this is all about the Carmel Gun Club shoot this year. I'm sure when Diaopter gets here he can clarify all of it for you.
In the meantime I'll see about translations.

paul0660
02-04-2012, 2:51 PM
better pray we never meet in any empty garage or parking lot.

Thank you, for proving my point and opinion, kid.

I am 5'7 190lbs with 13% body fat...so do the math. Plus 12 years of hockey 8 years in Kenpo, 4 years in the USMC and 3 years of Muay Thai I think I can hang with the older lads.

Below the neck, most certainly, if any of the above is true.

1-M-42
02-04-2012, 3:05 PM
1-M-42, this is all about the Carmel Gun Club shoot this year. I'm sure when Diaopter gets here he can clarify all of it for you.
In the meantime I'll see about translations.

OK, thanks. I'm on their site all the time, just didn't realize it was their match you were speaking about. Thanks for the clarification. They are not too far from me and I plan on sneaking over for a couple of their matches.

paul0660
02-04-2012, 3:07 PM
you make me sick Paul. Thanks for hijacking the thread too. At no point did I mention or hint your name all I wanted was some info on the k31 match and magically you come on here and just had to say something irrelevant. Good work .

I noted you were distracted from dissing Yugo produced SKS designed rifles and got you back on track. I am sure your mom would have done the same.

Still trying to fit 4 years in the Marines with your being 18-19.

Funny stuff.

Latigo
02-04-2012, 3:50 PM
Uhh... guys? Do you really want to do this here?
SKSer, absolutely keep a log book on every shot you guys make. If you're using GP11 you won't need a chrono, but when you get into reloading I can certainly help you. That's sort my thing. :D
Make sure your sight in begins at 75 yards, move to 100, then 200 and then right out to 300 for solid practice. It's not going to be as difficult as you might imagine. It just takes practice.
Carlos Diaopter will recommend your stance on holding the rifle for competition.
Now......... Both of you can do me a huge favor and delete those posts up above, ok?
Thanks :D

Latigo
02-04-2012, 3:52 PM
Something else that might interest you guys.........

http://theswissriflesdotcommessageboard.yuku.com/topic/8779/Standing-offer-to-all-Sanctioned-Swiss-Shooting-Clubs

SKSer45
02-04-2012, 3:59 PM
Uhh... guys? Do you really want to do this here?
SKSer, absolutely keep a log book on every shot you guys make. If you're using GP11 you won't need a chrono, but when you get into reloading I can certainly help you. That's sort my thing. :D
Make sure your sight in begins at 75 yards, move to 100, then 200 and then right out to 300 for solid practice. It's not going to be as difficult as you might imagine. It just takes practice.
Carlos Diaopter will recommend your stance on holding the rifle for competition.
Now......... Both of you can do me a huge favor and delete those posts up above, ok?
Thanks :D

Ahh excellent! so 75, 100, 200 and 300m. Will do! ME and blitz want to do it right. I have feeling with some practice we can get it spot on.

thanks! Yes I will be a good boy and delete my post.

OO hey about those medals is that what they give to civilians or army or both?

Latigo
02-04-2012, 4:01 PM
Civilians.
I'll photograph a few for you. Dad has a number of them.

Blitzburgh
02-04-2012, 4:07 PM
O.k. guys, lets settle it down a bit o.k.?

Paul - please... stop taking pot shots at SKSer45. Just because you don't like him or feel that he's to young or inexperienced at life really doesn't give anybody the right to hijack this thread.

SKSer45 and I are planning on shooting the March 17th match at the Carmel Gun club. We are making all necessary preparations, trying to get as much practice time in as possible before the match, and have asked for advice from Latigo being that neither of us have shot a Swiss match before nor are that experienced with K31's, and Latigo's advice is top notch. I for one am more than thankful to him for not only giving us the advice we've asked for so far, but also for the time it has taken him to post info in this thread, and the sticky in this forum, and I'm sure it's more than just a few minutes of time. I am, again, very grateful for his help.

Now if we do well in this match or fall flat on our faces is still to be seen. If neither of us even come close to doing half decent then so be it. There are more matches down the road and I'm sure we'll have a heck of a good time not only shooting the match, but preparing for it as well. We all have to start somewhere right?

So I'm going to ask again Paul, nicely, gentleman to gentleman, please let's not ruin a good thread and what so far has been some awesome information because you guys can't seem to get along.

And SKSer... settle down. Please. I've been having a lot of fun winding you up here from time to time and in emails, but we both know it's all in fun. I for one have enjoyed your company both here and at the range. We've both had a good time, learned a few things from each other, and have made a couple of good deals so we both have new things to shoot with. I would advise putting Paul on ignore so that you don't have to see what he's saying to and about you.

Please?

C'mon guys, lets play nice.

Blitzburgh
02-04-2012, 4:10 PM
Thanks again Latigo for the information! We both want to really do this up right and you've been more than helpful!

I for one am having a blast getting ready for this match - finally something to focus my attention on other than work!

Thanks again Latigo - and I apologize for this thread veering off track. I hope it ends, and now.

:)

SKSer45
02-04-2012, 4:17 PM
Thanks again Latigo for the information! We both want to really do this up right and you've been more than helpful!

I for one am having a blast getting ready for this match - finally something to focus my attention on other than work!

Thanks again Latigo - and I apologize for this thread veering off track. I hope it ends, and now.

:)

Already be done :) Your the only one that can own me babe :) heheh (7-0 to be in fact)

But yes I have been taking good notes! So we need to zero at 75m, 100m, 200m, 300m. However when your DIOPTER comes might have to tweak it around a bit as well.

And I think its time for you to get that vest/recoil pad too dear. I have a feeling we got a lot of shots coming up.

Don't forget to bring your good glasses too! The ones with the tape on it!

Blitzburgh
02-04-2012, 4:36 PM
Ah that's right! I want to get another set of glasses!

I'll add it to my "Things to do before the Swiss Match" list.... Man that list is getting long! :)

SKSer45
02-04-2012, 5:00 PM
Ah that's right! I want to get another set of glasses!

I'll add it to my "Things to do before the Swiss Match" list.... Man that list is getting long! :)

hehe yes it is! But just think how sweet our medals will look? Maybe latigo can give us some free swiss stuff! har har! (latigo I would love to have some swiss chocolate) hehhe

I think we have everything don't you think though Blitz?

Latigo
02-04-2012, 5:22 PM
What you will get from all this is an excellent introduction into a very cool shooting club. Its all about the sheer fun of shooting these incredibly accurate rifles. Once you compete with other like minded guys you'll be hooked. It truly is a Brotherhood of Swiss Rifles.
Beginning to reload can be done with a very basic setup that will give you loads every bit as accurate as the guys with the big dollar setups, and of course you have an inside track. :D

diopter
02-04-2012, 6:55 PM
Ok, so what is/are the question(s)?

rojocorsa
02-04-2012, 7:00 PM
I need to go shoot with y'all sometime.

Pthfndr
02-04-2012, 7:03 PM
Ok, so what is/are the question(s)?

I think the big question Blitzburg had is how is the score kept for the official Swiss target.

SKSer45
02-04-2012, 7:04 PM
and are there any specific targets we need to zero in the rifle? With and With out the DIOPTEr.

Pthfndr
02-04-2012, 7:18 PM
and are there any specific targets we need to zero in the rifle? With and With out the DIOPTEr.

For zeroing purposes any black, bulls eye type target will work best. The Swiss SR target dimensions are different, but it's still a round black circle.

If you check your zero at 100 yards, the regulation NRA 100 yard bulls eye target most ranges have will work just fine to zero for windage. But to really confirm your elevation settings you need to check them at ranges in meters.

Here's a pic of the target I shot for a Swiss postal match some years back with diopter sights at 100 yards (the targets were reduced for 100 yards) The X ring is TINY!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/Pthfndr/Targets/ProneDiopter.jpg

And here's a pic comparing the Swiss target with a 100 yard NRA target.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/Pthfndr/Targets/SwissSRTarget.jpg

SKSer45
02-04-2012, 8:05 PM
wow good shooting! yeah that looks close enough :) Thanks Pathfinder!

waffenfabrik_
02-04-2012, 9:27 PM
To get sighted in for 300m, when shooting at 100yds.

1) set rear sight to 300

2) use the 300m sight picture (6 o'clock hold)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/guisan/album%202/album3/aiming.jpg


3) use the reduced A5 target
http://www.hwsportsman.net/SwissA5-100-11x17.pdf OR
http://www.photo-swiss.com/guns/swisstargets/terry-swissa10-100y-11x17.pdf
The target above is in 11"x17" portrait orientation format. Make sure that your printer properties are set to print on 11"x17" paper, and that you are in portrait mode before you hit the print button. To get accurately sized printouts with these .pdf format targets, make sure that the "Fit to page" check-box is NOT checked in the Adobe Acrobat print dialog box. The largest ring on the target should print out at exactly 12 inches in diameter.

4) remember that you shots should (will) be centered only left/right, and elevation will be off 10.8 inches?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/guisan/album%204/album%209/k31sightsetting.jpg

Check my math:
POA vs POI 300m vs 100m = dif of 30cm
30cm = 11.811 in
yard vs meters = 91.44%

11.811 x .9144 = 10.799?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/carlosdiaopter/A10targetconversion.jpg

Therefore if one is shooting well one should have a nice tight group centered left/right about 3.6 inches above the black.


Keep Score
http://www.photo-swiss.com/guns/swisstargets/terry-scorecard.pdf

Latigo
02-05-2012, 3:56 AM
Perfect. Thanks.
I think I still have that target in the print system in the studio. We've always printed the targets for Swiss postal shoots. I'll check it on monday. I can send full sized samples if any of you shooters want them. Let me check first and I'll explain how we can do it.

diopter
02-05-2012, 4:06 AM
Good answers pthfndr and waffenfabrik.

I'll add that you can glass/verify your shots during slowfire, but timed or rapid strings only after last shot is fired.


Front support only is allowed by some shoots.
Original Swiss military shoots only allow seniors, juniors or women to use front support and others could only use the issue sling for any meager support. It is not a target sling! Using a target sling would put your in the match rifle category with the big boys with $5000,00 plus match rifles.

Issue sights are OK with A5 and B4 military scoring systems, but you need diopters to have a chance to compete with the A10 and B10 scoring ring systems

Latigo
02-05-2012, 7:27 AM
Ok, so it is in the system and Dad found a bunch of them in the armoury that were the 300meter to 100 yard reduction targets. If you want like maybe 6 at one time, email me at the SP address and one of us will respond how to do it. Essentially we'll need a SASE 11.5" x 11.5" or larger manila envelope sent to us. No cost for the targets, but you'll need to cover postage or..........
If one of you guys knows a sign shop with a printer like one of these.........
This one is 48" wide. OUr newest unit is 60" wide.
These are just bulls eye pasters we put on 4'x8' sheets of paper on our range. The range in size for 50 yard to 1,000 yard bulls eyes.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/Bullseyes.jpg

You can get a load of both the reduced size and the full 300 meter size for pennies apiece printed on paper.

One final option. If you guys can select one member there in California, I can print a whole load of full and reduced size official 300 meter targets to send you in a large roll tube. You will have to cover the shipping, but it'll be cheap. I could fit maybe 300 targets in one roll. You'll have to cut them apart and send them to the other guys.

Latigo
02-05-2012, 8:40 AM
And these are some of the shooting medals sent to my Father from Europe.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/IMG_2527.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/IMG_2533.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/IMG_2531.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/IMG_2528-1.jpg

Blitzburgh
02-05-2012, 2:30 PM
Wow! So much good info here! I obviously have a TON of reading to do!

And Latigo - Thanks SO much for the pictures of those medals! How VERY cool!

And guess what turned up in my morning archealogical dig? All that way in the back... in the very last ammo can I opened...

Yep... there it was.. smiling at me... like my little found babies! So this Swiss Flu must have quite a long gestation time... because as you can see, I've had the bug in my system for quite some time, it just took CGN, Latigo and SKSer45 to bring it to the full fledge disease that it is today...

And anybody who knows me, and the way I pack in (horde?) ammo and the like knows that the very back of my storage must be sometime in the paleozoic era? I didn't run across any dinosaur fossils... but I'm sure they are close at this point ;)

Blitzburgh
02-05-2012, 4:33 PM
One final option. If you guys can select one member there in California, I can print a whole load of full and reduced size official 300 meter targets to send you in a large roll tube. You will have to cover the shipping, but it'll be cheap. I could fit maybe 300 targets in one roll. You'll have to cut them apart and send them to the other guys.

I'm completely willing to be the "designated" target guy, that's not a problem, but here is a question/option... Do you have the A10, etc. targets in a file format that any of us could take to say a local Kinko's and have them printed out to our hearts content?

I really appreciate your doing this for us, but I don't want to lean to hard on your generosity, I'd rather not wear out my welcome just yet ;)

bruceflinch
02-05-2012, 5:02 PM
I have a question about scoring for anybody that knows or has shot a Swiss match, how is it done?

I've been searching around, and am on the Carmel Gun Club's website but it really doesn't say how the matches are scored.

Can anybody help or point me in the right direction? Thanks!

Is the Match at the Carmel Gun Club?
Where is the Carmel Gun Club?

Pthfndr
02-05-2012, 5:18 PM
Is the Match at the Carmel Gun Club?
Where is the Carmel Gun Club?

Yup

Near Carmel of course :)

http://carmelgunclub.com/SWISS%20Matches.html

Blitzburgh
02-05-2012, 5:19 PM
Is the Match at the Carmel Gun Club?
Where is the Carmel Gun Club?

Yep... at the Carmel Gun Club.

Carmel is usually between the peanuts and the nougat.... oh wait.. that's Caramel! Sorry!

They shoot at Monterey County Swiss Rifle Club 3421 Gloria Road Gonzales, CA 93926

Latigo
02-05-2012, 5:27 PM
I think I have that file in a format other than our proprietary one. I'll check in the am

Blitzburgh
02-05-2012, 5:30 PM
I think I have that file in a format other than our proprietary one. I'll check in the am

Thanks man! I appreciate your help!

1-M-42
02-05-2012, 7:11 PM
Yup

Near Carmel of course :)

http://carmelgunclub.com/SWISS%20Matches.html


Rob, If you ever plan on going let me know, I'll split gas with you and buy lunch...

bruceflinch
02-05-2012, 7:33 PM
Yup

Near Carmel of course :)

http://carmelgunclub.com/SWISS%20Matches.html

Not really! Gonzales is 39 mi. from Carmel. :p

Still a couple hours south of the SF Bay Area.

Pthfndr
02-05-2012, 8:28 PM
Not really! Gonzales is 39 mi. from Carmel. :p

Still a couple hours south of the SF Bay Area.

It's all relative to where one is coming from.

Pollock Pines to Gonzales - 4 hours

Carmel to Gonzales - 45 minutes

It's "near" Carmel :)

Latigo
02-06-2012, 5:44 AM
Looks like I'll have to re-program. Its in an Omega proprietary print file.
I'll reprogram it as eps, ai and pdf files.
Back when I can.

Latigo
02-06-2012, 6:35 AM
Blitzer, send an email to swissproducts@centurytel.net and I'll send the files back when they're ready. It may take a few hours... we're working on an architectural deadline project this morning.

CSACANNONEER
02-06-2012, 6:57 AM
Latigo, do you know the 45er is 18, or maybe 19 years old?

Please do not expend extra effort, it just make the smoke travel up your butt faster.

Are you just scared that an 18 or 19 year old might outshoot you? Or, are you actually trying to promote keeping the shooting sports from the next generation? I'm just not sure why his age is of any relevance here. He is enthusiastic and asking for proper guidance from an expert. What's wrong with that?

Actually the reason I asked Kestryll about a stickie here is because my Sister has a history with him, and she thought it would be good to give CalGuns its own Swiss rifle source for info. Now that I see the interest, I sure do agree with her. :D

If it keeps you here, I'm all for it. Your presence on CGN is a big asset that no one would waant to loose.

Latigo
02-06-2012, 7:30 AM
Thanks CSA. I'm not going anywhere as long as you guys want me to help.
This year my own son gets the old original Chipmunk .22 that was first my sister's, then mine, and now his.
We all took good care of it and it looks virtually like the day Dad gave it to 1911sr. Beautiful little walnut stock and as accurate as any of the .22s here in Lost Prairie. That little rifle always amazed me.
And its great to see guys like SKSer taking things and learning seriously. I had (still have) a great teacher and I'm still learning too and will for the rest of my life.

Blitzer, our deadline was met and I'm reprogramming the target right now. You can email me any time.

Latigo
02-06-2012, 7:48 AM
This is what the target 100 yard reduction looks like. Its a 11.25" x 11.25"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/SwissTarget.jpg

Blitzburgh
02-06-2012, 4:25 PM
Blitzer, send an email to swissproducts@centurytel.net and I'll send the files back when they're ready. It may take a few hours... we're working on an architectural deadline project this morning.

Email sent - please don't rush on my behalf... I can wait in line :)

THANKS!!!!!!!