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~DEVO~
03-26-2007, 10:39 AM
My brother-in-law has a felony on his record. He joins me every year when I go hunting. He does not carry any firearms on him due to his record. The other day he expressed to me that he would like to actually hunt, by carrying a rifle.

I searched the forum but nothing I found really directly answered my question. I understand that it's illegal for a felon to buy a weapon (complete rifle) and for a gun shop to sell him a rifle. I was wondering if it's legal for him to make his own rifle out of parts and use it for hunting.

One of my MUCH older hunting buddies informed me that he had a felony, and he had to build his on rifle in order to comply with both State and Federal Law.

Can anyone shed some light on this issue.

Thank you in advance.

mike100
03-26-2007, 10:43 AM
I'm going to guess he's gonna have to roll like Bo and Luke Duke with archery equipment. or take his chances.

SunshineGlocker
03-26-2007, 10:45 AM
Your brother in law cannot possess (hold, carry, etc) a rifle or a single round of ammo. Your much older hunting buddy who built his own rifle to comply with the law was not complying with the law; he was committing felonies.

I think felons have options of blackpowder guns but I'm not 100% sure all the restrictions on that. They can also use bows without any worries.

Finally, there are processes for getting rights restored, if they have lead clean lives for a long enough time. They could ask a lawyer about how to proceed.

scootergmc
03-26-2007, 10:54 AM
Bo and Luke Duke is right. Or Coy and Vance, but they were dumb. He can't possess a firearm period, let alone ammo. Doesn't matter if it's made out of wood and dirt. Take up archery.

kilword
03-26-2007, 10:56 AM
I believe you can have black powder if you are a felon. or bow and arrow not 100% on it but I have heard the same.

billym
03-26-2007, 10:56 AM
I am not totally sure but he may be able to go with black powder.
If not definitely bow & arrow.

Must have just posted as Kilword did.

battlehatch
03-26-2007, 11:20 AM
Makes me wonder... I just took the Hunter's Safety Course and had to sign an affidavit stating that I was not a felon. I'm sure you could use archery equip, but I wonder if they'd even let you take the class here...

bwiese
03-26-2007, 11:27 AM
As a felon he cannot own/handle/use any firearms, ammo - and, in CA (IIRC) even (hicap?) magazines.

There may be a federal blackpowder exemption, but not sure if it applies to CA.

If his felony is reducible to a misdemeanor he can try to file for a 17(b) reduction.

Perhaps someone has Machtinger's "How to Own a Gun in CA and Not Go To Jail" handy....

~DEVO~
03-26-2007, 12:07 PM
Thanks for all the input. Judging by what has been said, I better tell my brother-in-law to quit his job, he works in the ammo box making industry and he handles ammo (for fitting purposes) everyday. 17(b) reduction... hmm, going to look into that. Actually, I reviewed his case and I noticed that the ages of the (so called) victim and him where switched in addition to other numerous errors. He does not want to FIGHT it due to him being scared of additional charges.

bwiese
03-26-2007, 12:09 PM
Thanks for all the input. Judging by what has been said, I better tell my brother-in-law to quit his job, he works in the ammo box making industry and he handles ammo (for fitting purposes) everyday. 17(b) reduction... hmm, going to look into that. Actually, I reviewed his case and I noticed that the ages of the (so called) victim and him where switched in addition to other numerous errors. He does not want to FIGHT it due to him being scared of additional charges.

The case is over; I don't see additional charges being able to be added.

He should talk to an attorney.

I'm guessing he didn't have one and plead out beforehand?

~DEVO~
03-26-2007, 12:22 PM
At the time he was 16...17 years old and just pleded guilty because the public defender told him to do so. The plantiff was his 21... 23? year old girlfriend. Some lawyers do not want to deal with his case because it's a hassleand it happened 15 years ago. In addition, he immigrated here legally, and now his papers are in limbo. Sounds like he screwed unless he finds a lawyer willing to take his case.

E Pluribus Unum
03-26-2007, 12:35 PM
In My Humble Opinion:

He cannot hunt with black powder. According to federal rules black powder is not a firearm so he can hunt in other states.

According to California law a black powder gun is not a firearm until the slug, powder, and cap are present. As soon as this happens it is a firearm under California law.

If my interpretation is correct he could purchase a black powder firearm and store it unloaded at his residence. He could then go hunting outside the state and when done bring it back to California in its unloaded state.

SunshineGlocker
03-26-2007, 12:35 PM
Sounds like your friend got screwed by not having a lawyer, and he plead to something he should have fought. It's not too late to fix it but it will cost some bucks. Not huge bucks, but some bucks. He can fix this! Public defenders. Some of them do a good job but sometimes you get what you pay for.

Your friend should immediately cease working with ammo. He's not allowed to possess (pick up, handle, touch, have control over) a single round of fixed ammo. Maybe the company has other roles he could work in, but he can't touch ammo. To be on the safe side he should not be in the presence of ammo, ie, he shouldn't be in a room where ammo is on a table or a shelf.

EPU, interesting. I didn't know the details on that.

DarthSean
03-26-2007, 1:29 PM
At the time he was 16...17 years old and just pleded guilty because the public defender told him to do so. The plantiff was his 21... 23? year old girlfriend. Some lawyers do not want to deal with his case because it's a hassleand it happened 15 years ago. In addition, he immigrated here legally, and now his papers are in limbo. Sounds like he screwed unless he finds a lawyer willing to take his case.
I believe most (if not all) juveniles convicted of felonies when tried as a minor get their gun rights back at the age of 30. He could ask a lawyer about that too.

SnWnMe
03-26-2007, 1:40 PM
Hunting with a Felony

Don't hunt with jailbait.

scootergmc
03-26-2007, 2:24 PM
At the time he was 16...17 years old and just pleded guilty because the public defender told him to do so. The plantiff was his 21... 23? year old girlfriend. Some lawyers do not want to deal with his case because it's a hassleand it happened 15 years ago. In addition, he immigrated here legally, and now his papers are in limbo. Sounds like he screwed unless he finds a lawyer willing to take his case.

Juvenile? That changes things immensely. Juvenile adjudications are not convictions. He's eligible if you ask me. Taken from the DOJ firearms summary guide:

Persons Subject to Juvenile Court Law
Any person subject to juvenile court law and adjudged a ward of the juvenile court within
the meaning of Section 602 of the Welfare and Institutions Code for any of the following
offenses, shall not own, possess, or have under his or her custody or control any firearm
until reaching 30 years of age (Penal Code 12021(e)):
• Murder.
• Arson that causes great bodily injury or arson of an inhabited structure or property.
(Penal Code 451(a) and (b).)
• Robbery while armed with a dangerous or deadly weapon.
• Rape with force or violence or threat of great bodily harm.
• Sodomy by force, violence, duress, menace, or threat of great bodily harm.
• Lewd or lascivious act on a child under the age of 14. (Penal Code 288(b).)
• Oral copulation by force, violence, duress, menace, or threat of great bodily harm.
• Sexual assault with a foreign object. (Penal Code 289.)
• Kidnapping for ransom.
• Kidnapping for purpose of robbery, rape, spousal rape, etc. (Penal Code
209(b)(1).)
• Kidnapping with bodily harm.
• Assault with intent to murder or attempted murder.
• Assault with a firearm or destructive device.
• Assault by any means of force likely to produce great bodily injury.
• Discharge of a firearm into an inhabited or occupied building.
• Specified crimes against persons 60 years of age or older, blind persons, paraplegics,
or quadriplegics as described in Penal Code section 1203.09.
• Use of a firearm in the commission or attempted commission of a felony; discharge
of a firearm at an occupied motor vehicle causing great bodily injury or death; use of
a firearm to commit the controlled substances violations described in Penal Code
sections 12022.5 or 12022.53.
• Any felony offense in which the minor personally used a weapon described in Penal
Code section 12020(a).
• Felony intimidation of a witness and victim as described in Penal Code section 136.1
or influencing the testimony or information given to a law enforcement official as
described in Penal Code section 137.
California Firearms Laws 2006 27
• Manufacturing, compounding, or selling one-half ounce or more of any salt or
solution of a controlled substance specified in Health and Safety Code section
11055(e).
• Possessing for sale, or selling a substance containing 28.5 grams or more of cocaine
as specified in Penal Code section 1203.073.
• Any of the specified violent felonies listed in Penal Code section 667.5(c) committed
for the benefit, direction, or association with any criminal street gang as described in
Penal Code section 186.22(b).
• Intentionally inflicting great bodily injury on an employee of a juvenile facility
during an escape by the use of force or violence in violation of Welfare and
Institutions Code section 871(b).
• Torture as described in Penal Code sections 206 and 206.1.
• Aggravated mayhem as described in Penal Code section 205.
• Carjacking as described in Penal Code section 215 while armed with a dangerous or
deadly weapon.
• Kidnapping as punishable in Penal Code section 209.5.
• Willfully and maliciously discharging a firearm from a motor vehicle at another
person other than an occupant of a motor vehicle.
• Exploding, igniting, or attempting to explode or ignite any destructive device or
explosive with intent to commit murder.
• Any of the offenses listed in Penal Code section 12021(c)(1).
• Carrying a concealed handgun. (Penal Code 12025).
• Carrying a loaded handgun. (Penal Code 12031).
• Allowing another to transport a loaded handgun in a vehicle. (Penal Code 12034).

edit: After rereading, who was 23 and who was 16? Was he adjudicated as a juvenile or convicted as an adult? If he was 16 and she was 23, he rules. Does he have any of his paperwork?

~DEVO~
03-26-2007, 3:08 PM
... stop at the Bunny Ranch in Nevada.

Sounds like a plan, but I don't want to be on an episode of an HBO documentry, "G string Divas":) .

I think he needs to stop being scared of what MIGHT happen and try to reopen the case and MAYBE get it over turned.

xenophobe
03-26-2007, 3:18 PM
As noted above, if he was underage, it depends on what he was convicted of. Just a "felony" doesn't mean the same thing. Generally non-violent, non-weapon felony convicted minors may own guns after 21, even if their records have not been sealed.

Have him submit a Firearms Eligibility Check Form:
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/pfecapp.pdf?PHPSESSID=1b4715d9d5e68e023aa1b10eaa14 2b30

More info about Firearms Eligibility Checks here:
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pfecfaqs.php

If he is not eligible, he may not be with you hunting if he has access to the weapon, like grabbing the rifle when you're not looking.

VeryCoolCat
03-26-2007, 3:19 PM
Don't hunt with jailbait.

His buddy was under 18... his gf was over 21.

kilword
03-26-2007, 5:09 PM
His buddy was under 18... his gf was over 21.

Niceeeeeeeee...:cool:

~DEVO~
03-26-2007, 5:31 PM
His buddy was under 18... his gf was over 21.
Correct, but it seems that in the report, they have him as over 21 and her under 18. So you can image what his felony is (court error). And since he was sent to jail he missed his last naturization meeting before being sworn in as a citizen. I wouldn't even know where to begin to find out the status of his application.

DarthSean
03-26-2007, 8:30 PM
He can probably shoot black powder. Better check with a lawyer though.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/fflc/ffl/faqs_genques.htm

Solidmch
03-26-2007, 8:54 PM
He needs to have his juvinile record sealed. This is not a felony in the true sence. Yet until he petitions the court he needs to stay away from guns/rifles. You can also be charged with giving a known felon a firearm. Get him to a criminal lawyer fast. It should cost him about $1500. Its alot but to have your liberty restored is worth every penny.

~DEVO~
03-26-2007, 9:49 PM
CRAP!!! just found out that my brother-in-law was tried as an adult. He's screwed unless he fights it.

SunshineGlocker
03-26-2007, 10:49 PM
DON'T TAKE THE WORD OF INTERNET LEGAL COMMANDOS, including me. You need to talk to a lawyer who specializes in this area. You should probably talk to two, in fact because lawyers have differing ideas and some are much better than others.

Restoring rights is not a simple thing that someone here on the web is going to explain to you. It depends on so many nuances: the offense, the trial, the plea, the court, and tons of other factors that are far beyond my understanding. It may be quite simple to get it restored, and I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND at least getting some solid answers on it.

randy
03-27-2007, 2:03 AM
Here is your answer. Get a shovel and a pickup truck back up to your lawyer and start shoveling cash he'll be fine.

montan
03-28-2007, 1:28 AM
Try to have the conviction expunged. Do not go hunting with him until expungement is final. You might be charged with aiding and abetting.

~DEVO~
03-28-2007, 4:06 PM
Thanks for all the input.

one417
03-28-2007, 5:11 PM
DON'T TAKE THE WORD OF INTERNET LEGAL COMMANDOS


Sunshine,

That is by far the best advise seen on any internet board in a looooooong time :D Good call.