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JLMXD
02-03-2012, 9:02 AM
Im looking at these to items but am unfamiliar with them. they could be the same but i dont know. listed to different names.
thanks
its probably and easy answer but i dont have a clue. Stutzen and Mannlicher

http://www.jgsales.com/steyr-95-stutzen-carbine-austrian,-8x56r-caliber,-no-bayonet,-excellent-condition-p-5795.html

http://classicarms.us/firearms.htm

you have to scroll to see the second link

C&Rtrader
02-03-2012, 10:36 AM
I think it has to do with the swivels:

carbine = sidewise
stutzen = downside
stutzen carbine = sidewise & downside

someone can correct me if wrong?

tujungatoes
02-03-2012, 11:52 AM
It's been a minute since I needed to know, but as I recall the carbine was built that way. Where as the stutzen was converted from a full length rifle and still has the rifle sights.

Surplusrifleforum.com shoulf have the details.

*edit* here's the info Linky (http://www.carbinesforcollectors.com/m95.htm)

GOEX FFF
02-03-2012, 12:25 PM
I think it has to do with the swivels:

carbine = sidewise
stutzen = downside
stutzen carbine = sidewise & downside

someone can correct me if wrong?

^^ Yes, this is basically correct, but there is more to consider.

The proper name is determined by the location and the type of the sling attachment points, as well as the provision for bayonet and presence of aa stacking rod. There are/were 5 different configurations.

A quick determination of a Stutzen vs. a Karabiner -

Stutzen will have a 5" distance between the front and rear bbl bands.
Karabiner (Carbine) will have 7" between bbl bands.

Stutzen w/ 5" between bbl bands -

The "RepetierStutzen" carries bottom mounted swivels only, and a stacking rod and lugged front band.

The "KarabinerStutzen" carries both bottom and side swivels. Stacking rod and lugged front band. The rear-band will be a side sling bar with a bottom swivel, a side swivel on the wrist and a bottom swivel on lower butt-stock.

Karabiner w/ 7" between bbl bands -

Original "RepetierKarabiner" (or carbine) carried side mounted swivels only on the rear band and wrist. Front bands were rodless and lugless. (Original carbine front bands had no bayonet lug or stacking rods, and they are VERY scarce).

The "RepetierKarabiner mit oberem Stutzenring". Around 1912-1914, MOST RepetierKarabiner received updated Stutzen stacking rod and lugged front bands. Most of the "carbines" you see today are RepetierKarabiner mit oberem Stutzenring. These will also carry side swivels only.

The "StutzenKarabiner" is a Karabiner that carries a Stutzen stacking rod and lugged front band, side and bottom swivels on the rear band, (as opposed to a side bar) a side wrist swivel and bottom swivels on the buttstock.

McNally M.
02-03-2012, 12:33 PM
I've always wanted one of these rifles. They are so interesting and have remained low in cost for a while now. But the ammo is obsolete isn't it? Isn't it tough to find? I don't even know if they make modern production in that caliber.

GOEX FFF
02-03-2012, 12:36 PM
It's been a minute since I needed to know, but as I recall the carbine was built that way. Where as the stutzen was converted from a full length rifle and still has the rifle sights.

Surplusrifleforum.com shoulf have the details.

*edit* here's the info*
Linky (http://www.carbinesforcollectors.com/m95.htm)


No, there are some errors in that article.
The RepetierStutzen was in of it's own. Just the cutting down of a LR doesn't make the Stutzen.

It makes it a cut-down Long rifle in Karabiner or Stutzen configuration.

GOEX FFF
02-03-2012, 12:48 PM
I've always wanted one of these rifles. They are so interesting and have remained low in cost for a while now. But the ammo is obsolete isn't it? Isn't it tough to find? I don't even know if they make modern production in that caliber.

These rifles were in two calibers.
The original WWI caliber is the O-Patrone M93 (8X50R)

Post war conversions were chambered in the S-Patrone M30 (8X56R)

Indeed, the 8X50R M93 cartridge is obsolete.
There is some 1930's Bulgarian and Czech surplus that surfaces once and while but it's much more collectible than shooting fodder. For the 8X50R, it's gonna come down to rolling your own. The good news is that there is New 8X56R brass now that can be used to hand-load 8X50R. Just size and trim.
8X50R cases can also be made from 7.62X54R.


8X56R M30 cartridge is a bit more plentiful, but Nazi marked suplus and commercial has gotten to be a $1.00-$1.50 a round now.
Though happily, with the flood of converted rifles now on the market, Privi and Hornady makes a new production 8X56R cartridge.

And of course hand-loading for the 8X56R is just as easy to do as well.

C&Rtrader
02-03-2012, 1:10 PM
PRVI makes brand new 8x56r ammo... its about $22 for a box of 20. Surplus can be foudn on gunbroker.. you will need the clip though so it is worth buying a box of surplus

GOEX FFF
02-03-2012, 1:38 PM
Im looking at these to items but am unfamiliar with them. they could be the same but i dont know. listed to different names.
thanks
its probably and easy answer but i dont have a clue. Stutzen and Mannlicher

http://www.jgsales.com/steyr-95-stutzen-carbine-austrian,-8x56r-caliber,-no-bayonet,-excellent-condition-p-5795.html

http://classicarms.us/firearms.htm

you have to scroll to see the second link


God love em, but the classic arms site is a bit off-target in their description.

The M95 and the M95/34 are virtually identical with the exception of the following. The 95/34 is considered the Hungarian variant and will typically have a longer rear leaf sight than the M95 and may have a sling loop on the forend of the stock rather than a sling swivel. These Rifles were produced in the 1930's and are in very nice condition for 80 some odd year old rifles.

First, the "M.95/34" is not a just a "Hungarian variant".
And they weren't exactly produced. Reworked in Bulgaria starting in 1934 yes, produced, no. But the second reworking of an M.95; M.95/30 respectively.
Coming upon a short rifle with a long ladder leaf sight simply means that the rifle has been cut-down from a long rifle sometime in it's past. In 1931, Austria also started to shorten M.95/30's from Long Rifles to carbine/stutzen length. So the presence of a Long rifle ladder sight on a Carbine or Stutzen doesn't necessarily mean it's strictly a Bulgarian M.95/34 rework. Even Bulgarian contract M95's were converted in Austria, by the Austrians. Poland also shortened and reworked some M.95 long rifles that retain their modified long ladder sights.

At the start of 1930, Austrian 8X56R conversions were designated the "M.95/30." It was also the year the 8X56R (M30) cartridge was introduced.
This Austrian conversion is noted by a large "S" on top of the bbl ring for the new, more powerful 8X56R Spitzer cartridge. Hungarian 8x56R cartridge conversions started in 1931. Their conversions are stamped with a large "H" on top of the bbl ring and are designated the "31.M."

MANY Austrian M.95/30's and Hungarian 31.M were sold/given to the Bulgarians (most of which are the ones that are being sold through the distributors) Who, beginning in 1934, rearsenald/reworked them along with their own contract rifles. This Bulgarian rework (often also adding electro-penciled or stamped serial numbers to bolts and bbl bands) redesignated the rifle the "M.95/34."

Remember, the M.95 Straight-Pull Mannlicher began production in 1895 and production ended in 1921. Any M.95/30, 31.M, M.95/34, M.95M or M.95/24 were reworked. They all come from the original 1895-1921 M.95 surplus.

tujungatoes
02-03-2012, 10:33 PM
^^Now here's a man that knows his sh*t.

Don't be afraid of these rifles guys. Reloading is a fun hobby and this cartridge is well worth it. These rifles are downright painful to shoot with surplus ammo(which can be fun too:D), but if you roll your own you can make some very nice shooting ammo that's easy on the shoulder and the wallet.

JLMXD
02-04-2012, 1:27 PM
wow loads of info! thanks guys. is one better than the other?

gun toting monkeyboy
02-04-2012, 2:34 PM
lol. All that info, and nobody answered the question. "Stutzen" refers to the particular model. Meaning it is a short model with a few small differences between it and the regular carbines. "Mannlicher" refers to the make of the rifle. Or in this case, the name of the person who designed it. Think along the lines of "Civic" being the model, and "Honda" being the make.

And while it is semi-obsolete, there have been a bunch of people making reloading supplies for these over the past 15 years or so. Even the odd-sized .329-.331" bullets are available without too much hunting. The various carbine models make great brush guns. They can more or less duplicatwe the ballistics of the old .30-40 krag from that short barrel. The rifles are on par with about a .308 Winchester in terms of power. I have taken both hunting, but never gotten a shot with them. :(

-Mb