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View Full Version : Is an FFL exempt from the roster mandate?


Lives_In_Fresno
02-02-2012, 3:17 PM
In CA, we may not (generally, with a few exceptions) buy a handgun unless its on the the roster of "safe" guns.

Of course, if we are receiving such a handgun from a child of ours, or giving it to our (over 21) offspring, etc., that is fine as well.

If you are a CA FFL, can you legally import such a handgun from out of state and take personal possession.ownership of it?

I can't find the rule on this in the code...

If we need an example handgun to use, lets use the Ruger SR1911.

Thanks in advance!

halifax
02-02-2012, 3:29 PM
A CA FFL is not exempt from the roster for personal transfers but we can import them and sure the heck can use anything in our inventory to our heart's content.

kemasa
02-02-2012, 3:40 PM
What he said.

You would have to find an exemption from the roster for FFLs in order to be able to transfer it to yourself and you won't find any such exemption because it does not exist. You can import them, sell them to exempt people, sell them to people out of state and/or use it as a demo firearm.

Paperchasin
02-02-2012, 3:48 PM
What he said.

You would have to find an exemption from the roster for FFLs in order to be able to transfer it to yourself and you won't find any such exemption because it does not exist. You can import them, sell them to exempt people, sell them to people out of state and/or use it as a demo firearm.

You can also convert it to an SSE if possible, and sell them as SSE.

Lives_In_Fresno
02-02-2012, 5:54 PM
Thanks for the quick answers!

Interesting that my son can buy one out of state and give it to me as a gift, but if I were an FFL, I couldn't get it myself, from the same place he can get it.

kemasa
02-02-2012, 6:01 PM
You can get it because of your son, intrafamilial transfer. The laws don't have to make sense or be reasonable and it seems that they ensure that is actually the case.

You could move out of state and buy one, then move back in. Someone from out of state could buy one, move here and sell it to you as a PPT. A LEO could buy one and then sell it as a PPT (although there could be some issues with that).

tenpercentfirearms
02-02-2012, 6:59 PM
If your son is out of state, you might as well be exempt. I am jealous.

curvejunkie
02-03-2012, 5:59 AM
If your son is out of state, you might as well be exempt. I am jealous.


My parents just moved to Nevada...:D I am happy.

CSACANNONEER
02-03-2012, 6:23 AM
In CA, we may not (generally, with a few exceptions) buy a handgun unless its on the the roster of "safe" guns.

Of course, if we are receiving such a handgun from a child of ours, or giving it to our (over 21) offspring, etc., that is fine as well.

If you are a CA FFL, can you legally import such a handgun from out of state and take personal possession.ownership of it?

I can't find the rule on this in the code...

If we need an example handgun to use, lets use the Ruger SR1911.

Thanks in advance!

I believe that even a FFL can legally give their child a personally owned (not one in their books) a handgun or other non-rifle/shotgun once they hit the age of 18. If not, it sucks that FFLs have to follow a different set of law than the rest of us when dealing with personally owned firearms.

tenpercentfirearms
02-03-2012, 7:57 AM
I believe that even a FFL can legally give their child a personally owned (not one in their books) a handgun or other non-rifle/shotgun once they hit the age of 18. If not, it sucks that FFLs have to follow a different set of law than the rest of us when dealing with personally owned firearms.

No we can. The only thing we have to do differently is if we take a firearm for our personal collection without completing a 4473, we must keep it for a year before we can just give it to someone without completing another 4473.

Since I am now a corporation, I have to 4473 everything, but I don't have to DROS long guns. I DROS and 4473 handguns. Since I 4473 everything, I can turn around and give long guns through intrafamilial without restriction.

kemasa
02-03-2012, 9:04 AM
No we can. The only thing we have to do differently is if we take a firearm for our personal collection without completing a 4473, we must keep it for a year before we can just give it to someone without completing another 4473.


The requirement is to run it through your bound book if you sell it within a year of transferring to your personal collection without filling out a 4473. There is no requirement to fill out a 4473.

An example is if you transferred a firearm to your own personal collection without filling out a 4473, then you sell it and ship it to someone out of state within the year. You would never fill out a 4473 in that case, but you have to run it through your bound book.

tenpercentfirearms
02-03-2012, 1:03 PM
The requirement is to run it through your bound book if you sell it within a year of transferring to your personal collection without filling out a 4473. There is no requirement to fill out a 4473.

An example is if you transferred a firearm to your own personal collection without filling out a 4473, then you sell it and ship it to someone out of state within the year. You would never fill out a 4473 in that case, but you have to run it through your bound book.

Yup that is it. The 4473 keeps it from having to go back through your bound book.

weaponsandgear
02-03-2012, 7:26 PM
You can also convert it to an SSE if possible, and sell them as SSE.

This is where I am having trouble. I have not moved to the SSE on non roster pistols as I cannot figure out the argument on bringing in non-exempt handguns. How does one argue that if we are not exempt as FFL's on the non-exempt roster issue, then how are we to bring in a non-roster handgun to convert to SSE? I have a valid argument when I bring in a non-roster for a LEO, but how so for a SSE?

I don't argue the legality of the SSE and the conversion, my concern is getting from step A to B, before the conversion....

Any clarification would be appreciated (i.e. legal reference?)

halifax
02-03-2012, 7:34 PM
This is where I am having trouble. I have not moved to the SSE on non roster pistols as I cannot figure out the argument on bringing in non-exempt handguns. How does one argue that if we are not exempt as FFL's on the non-exempt roster issue, then how are we to bring in a non-roster handgun to convert to SSE? I have a valid argument when I bring in a non-roster for a LEO, but how so for a SSE?

I don't argue the legality of the SSE and the conversion, my concern is getting from step A to B, before the conversion....

Any clarification would be appreciated (i.e. legal reference?)


Have you ever imported large capacity magazines and converted them to 10 rounds for sale to the general public?

Santa Cruz Armory
02-03-2012, 7:51 PM
There are some perks to being an FFL.... :D

ugimports
02-04-2012, 8:42 AM
Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
The requirement is to run it through your bound book if you sell it within a year of transferring to your personal collection without filling out a 4473. There is no requirement to fill out a 4473.

An example is if you transferred a firearm to your own personal collection without filling out a 4473, then you sell it and ship it to someone out of state within the year. You would never fill out a 4473 in that case, but you have to run it through your bound book.
Yup that is it. The 4473 keeps it from having to go back through your bound book.


So to clarify, if my FFL is an LLC (not my name), I don't have to DROS non handguns to myself? And any long gun in the LLC's inventory I can just sign out to myself with no 4473 and no DROS (or 10 day wait)? I don't intend to sell any of it.

Just want to clarify as I thought this only applied to FFLs who used their name for their FFL vs. an LLC or Corp.

tenpercentfirearms
02-04-2012, 11:02 AM
This is where I am having trouble. I have not moved to the SSE on non roster pistols as I cannot figure out the argument on bringing in non-exempt handguns. How does one argue that if we are not exempt as FFL's on the non-exempt roster issue, then how are we to bring in a non-roster handgun to convert to SSE? I have a valid argument when I bring in a non-roster for a LEO, but how so for a SSE?

I don't argue the legality of the SSE and the conversion, my concern is getting from step A to B, before the conversion....

Any clarification would be appreciated (i.e. legal reference?)

Your gun shop is roster exempt. Meaning the gun shop can import and possess non-roster pistols to its heart's desire. However, you cannot DROS non-rostered pistols except to exempt people (FFLs holders are not exempt from DROSing non-rostered pistols) or if the pistol is roster exempt.

So you can order non-rostered handguns to sell to cops, to sell back out of state, or to convert to SSE and sell in state. Just be sure any SSE you are doing does not require anything more than drop in parts or you are manufacturing.

So to clarify, if my FFL is an LLC (not my name), I don't have to DROS non handguns to myself? And any long gun in the LLC's inventory I can just sign out to myself with no 4473 and no DROS (or 10 day wait)? I don't intend to sell any of it.

Just want to clarify as I thought this only applied to FFLs who used their name for their FFL vs. an LLC or Corp.

Let's save a thread jack and go read this thread and ask any further questions there.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=447318

kemasa
02-04-2012, 2:16 PM
This is where I am having trouble. I have not moved to the SSE on non roster pistols as I cannot figure out the argument on bringing in non-exempt handguns. How does one argue that if we are not exempt as FFL's on the non-exempt roster issue, then how are we to bring in a non-roster handgun to convert to SSE? I have a valid argument when I bring in a non-roster for a LEO, but how so for a SSE?


You are confusing the transfer of a firearm to your business vs. transfer of a firearm to an individual (ie. you). If you have an inventory, then you can have firearms which are just sold to someone who are exempt. You don't have to special order them for a specific person.

All the CA PC numbers have changed with respect to firearms, but the sale of a firearm to a FFL business is exempt from the certified list. This is how you can sell such a firearm to a person who is exempt. You, as a person, are not exempt from the certified list just because you are a FFL, so you can not submit the DROS in your name for a firearm that is not on the certified list unless the firearm is exempt (PPT, SSE).

weaponsandgear
02-05-2012, 12:43 PM
Thanks all,

I guess I was looking at it as more of me the individual and not from the standpoint of the FFL.