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BajaJames83
02-02-2012, 2:27 PM
I have a 1911 frame that I want to sell and transfer. Is it legal to sell and transfer it in California?

paul0660
02-02-2012, 2:32 PM
I have a 1911 frame that I want to sell and transfer. Is it legal to sell and transfer it in California?

It is a gun, so needs to be transferred via a FFL.

Unless it is on the roster, the only way it can be transferred is via PPT, at a FFL.

Ubermcoupe
02-02-2012, 2:36 PM
I have a 1911 frame that I want to sell and transfer. Is it legal to sell and transfer it in California?

Yes but only through PPT @ an FFL

or

it can be shipped to an FFL for a roster exempt person (like a LEO)

What kind of frame is it? :D

Munk
02-02-2012, 2:52 PM
3 possibilities for selling or transferring it within california. (and a bonus 4th that's probably not common or desired).

1. Face-to-Face PPT (redundant, I know, but it sometimes needs saying). This ignores the roster.

2. Sell it to a person who is exempt from roster requirements (most commonly Law Enforcement), in this situation it can be face to face or shipped.

3. Configure it into a roster-exempt configuration, then sell face to face or shipped. This will force you to turn it into a fully functional pistol with a long barrel.

Bonus 4th. Sell it as a long-gun, it can never become a pistol again. Some people who are looking to make a carbine off of a pistol frame may like this option.

BajaJames83
02-02-2012, 7:16 PM
I know it needs to be transfered through a ffl and needs to be PPT because its off roster, but the question is will any FFL's do a transfer on just a 1911 frame?

NotEnufGarage
02-02-2012, 7:20 PM
I know it needs to be transfered through a ffl and needs to be PPT because its off roster, but the question is will any FFL's do a transfer on just a 1911 frame?

I've bought 1911 frames through a PPT at an FFL recently.

The person you sell it to will either need to be a LEO or have a CCW in order to be exempt from the "Safe Handling Demonstration". No way to perform the demonstration without the slide, barrel, fcg, etc...

If the FFL is smart, he'll know this and not process the transfer unless the buyer is exempt. An audit of his books might reveal the lack of exemption and get him/her in big trouble.

Post in the FFL forum for an FFL in your area that is familiar with the process.

BajaJames83
02-02-2012, 7:57 PM
thats what is was looking for thanks.
so i need to put it together then.

Munk
02-02-2012, 9:00 PM
I've bought 1911 frames through a PPT at an FFL recently.

The person you sell it to will either need to be a LEO or have a CCW in order to be exempt from the "Safe Handling Demonstration". No way to perform the demonstration without the slide, barrel, fcg, etc...

If the FFL is smart, he'll know this and not process the transfer unless the buyer is exempt. An audit of his books might reveal the lack of exemption and get him/her in big trouble.

Post in the FFL forum for an FFL in your area that is familiar with the process.

could they not use a substitute 1911 for the safe handling demo?

NotEnufGarage
02-02-2012, 9:27 PM
could they not use a substitute 1911 for the safe handling demo?

I suppose an unethical FFL might try, but you never know which customer is a DOJ BOF auditor, do you?

Oh, and if you start doing cr*p like that, you dilute the term "Law Abiding Firearm Owner".. Right?

sekatoa
02-03-2012, 12:57 PM
The FFL can have you sign a waiver for the safe handling demonstration. Basically if you already own, or have owned, a 1911, you can sign the waiver.

ke6guj
02-03-2012, 1:16 PM
The FFL can have you sign a waiver for the safe handling demonstration. Basically if you already own, or have owned, a 1911, you can sign the waiver.what waiver is that?


The only form regarding the HSD is this one, http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/forms/hscaff.pdf? and it requires you to declare under perjury that you did the HSD with "the handgun (or one of the same make and model) referenced on Dealer Record of Sale (DROS)", not for a firearm that might be similar in nature.

BajaJames83
02-03-2012, 4:29 PM
so far it seems unless i put it together i am out of luck

sekatoa
02-04-2012, 8:40 AM
[QUOTE=ke6guj;7970532]what waiver is that?

I'm not an 01 FFL, so I don't have the form or a copy.I don't know the form #, but when I have time, I'll see if I can find it. I don't recall the exact wording, but it basically says something to the extent that you are already familiar with that specific firearm. I've used it with at least two different FFLs, whom knew I already had a firearm like the one as I was buying (having bought it from them), and they presented me the form.

sekatoa
02-04-2012, 8:43 AM
My this should have been asked in the FFL forum, or moved their?

sekatoa
02-04-2012, 11:57 AM
what waiver is that?


The only form regarding the HSD is this one, http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/forms/hscaff.pdf? and it requires you to declare under perjury that you did the HSD with "the handgun (or one of the same make and model) referenced on Dealer Record of Sale (DROS)", not for a firearm that might be similar in nature.

Could find anything about the form or waiver either, so I might be mistaken.
It's possible on those transactions it was an exception to HSD, for C&R handguns, as I am an 03 FFL and have a COE. I don't recall the specie times it was used.

Next transaction I do, if the waiver or form is presented, I'm get the number from it and request a copy.

Is it possible that PPT's are also an exception?

NotEnufGarage
02-04-2012, 1:34 PM
Could find anything about the form or waiver either, so I might be mistaken.
It's possible on those transactions it was an exception to HSD, for C&R handguns, as I am an 03 FFL and have a COE. I don't recall the specie times it was used.

Next transaction I do, if the waiver or form is presented, I'm get the number from it and request a copy.

Is it possible that PPT's are also an exception?

No exception for PPT that I know of. Only LEO, FFL and LTC.

BajaJames83
02-04-2012, 1:56 PM
if i put a slide and barrel on it would that suffice for transfer, or would it have to be a complete working firearm?

NotEnufGarage
02-04-2012, 3:01 PM
if i put a slide and barrel on it would that suffice for transfer, or would it have to be a complete working firearm?

Functioning firearm.

You can legally sell it to either a LEO or someone with a LTC. Any FFL can perform the PPT transfer.

crackerman
02-05-2012, 12:37 AM
Baja,

NotEnufGarage is not exactly correct. There are more than just the LTC or LEO exemptions to the Safe Handling demonstration.

20: What are the exemptions to the safe handling demonstration requirement?
The exemptions to the safe handling demonstration include all the exemptions from the Handgun Safety Certificate requirement.
Source (http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/hscfaqs#a21)

Current exemptions are:
X01 = Special Weapons Permit Holder
X02 = Operation of Law Representative
X03 = Handgun being returned to the owner
X13 = FFL collector with COE (curio and relic handguns only)
X21 = Military - Active Duty
X22 = Military - Reserve
X25 = Military - Honorably Retired
X31 = Peace Officer - California - Active
X32 = Peace Officer - Federal - Active
X33 = Peace Officer - California - Honorably Retired
X34 = Peace Officer - California - Reserve
X35 = Peace Officer - Federal - Honorably Retired
X41 = Carry Concealed Weapon (CCW) Permit Holder
X81 = P.O.S.T. 832 PC (Firearms) Training
X91 = Particular and Limited Authority Peace Officers
X95 = Law Enforcement Service Gun to Family Member
SOURCE (http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/hscfaqs#c6)
Even I have an exemption, you selling an 80% or factory ;)

BajaJames83
02-06-2012, 11:09 AM
i have a few factory frames

liketoshoot
02-06-2012, 11:35 AM
put it together, then after the demo, take it apart and leave with the parts he's not buying.

BajaJames83
02-08-2012, 9:11 AM
put it together, then after the demo, take it apart and leave with the parts he's not buying.

I figured this much, this is what I wanted to avoid, I was going to sell my other one on here too, but Its just not going to be worth the hassle.

NotEnufGarage
02-08-2012, 9:16 AM
put it together, then after the demo, take it apart and leave with the parts he's not buying.

First, that's a lot of work. The parts have to be fitted to the frame. 1911's aren't Glocks where every frame is identical.

Second, it defeats the purpose of buying a frame only. The act of fitting the slide will alter the frame rails and the buyers slide might not fit afterwards, without some "re-fitting".