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View Full Version : Parents buying handgun for son as a gift legality


safewaysecurity
02-01-2012, 3:13 PM
Okay so let's say my parents want to buy me a handgun as a gift for me. I've read another thread on this which indicates that parents buying a gift for their son or daughter that is above the age of 18 but under 21 is legal http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=91830. But let's say I want to go to the gun store and take the HSC test at the same time as my parent and help them choose out the gun on the spot but my parent is the one purchasing the firearm. I am not prohibited from owning firearms and have bought firearms from this establishment before. Would this be considered a straw purchase even though it's the parent spending their own money and gifting it to me and I am simply picking out the gun? I don't think the law requires that it be a SURPRISE gift. Is it legal is it illegal? I think it's legal but I can see how a dealer might say it's not. If it is legal what should we bring to the dealer to prove it is?

OCArmory
02-01-2012, 3:45 PM
The problem you face is that if your parents buy you a firearm to circumvent a law (i.e. age restriction) it would probably be viewed by the gunstore as a straw purchase. The problem you face as a gunstore is we have to be overly cautious in order to prevent being closed for an infraction. I know nothing saws that is has to be a surprise gift but why not just make it easier on the store and remove yourself from the purchase equation.
Mike

sofbak
02-01-2012, 3:50 PM
From reading the thread you linked, it looks like you have your answer in posts #9 and #13. Don't think it would be interpreted as a straw purchase, as intrafamilial transfer is legal-"pre-meditated" or not.

But if you're concerned about the reaction at the LGS, then don't go in there broadcasting "THIS IS A GIFT FROM MY PARENT!", and be sure said parent doesn't either.

Simply assist the buyer in the selection by examining the prospective choices, and when you find the right one, say "Here, this is the one you want." And let them get on with it. Then while they are doing the paper work, you go take the HSC test.

Then after the 10 day wait, get parent to take it home. Fill out the paper work, pay the prk more ransom and file the intrafamilial transfer paper.

ckprax
02-01-2012, 4:31 PM
Since Librarian posted in the linked thread you know it's good info (completely serious).

Connor P Price
02-01-2012, 4:41 PM
My understanding has always been that bona fide gifts are fine. If you were giving your parents money to buy you the handgun that would spell trouble but as long as it truly is a gift there is nothing to worry about.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

hoffmang
02-01-2012, 6:06 PM
ATF swore up and down that parents buying a handgun for an 18-20 year old is completely legal in this case: http://www.archive.org/download/gov.uscourts.txnd.199403/gov.uscourts.txnd.199403.docket.html

-Gene

safewaysecurity
02-01-2012, 6:46 PM
ATF swore up and down that parents buying a handgun for an 18-20 year old is completely legal in this case: http://www.archive.org/download/gov.uscourts.txnd.199403/gov.uscourts.txnd.199403.docket.html

-Gene

Yeah I brought that up way back when that brief was submitted. But I was wondering if being present and other factors would make it so the FFL would not sell to you. I know it's legal I just wanted something I could show the FFL if they said it wasn't legal but they said it's 100% fine.

Mssr. Eleganté
02-01-2012, 8:51 PM
What you are proposing is perfectly legal, but you will still run into problems with many FFLs. That's because from the perspective of many FFLs your scenario perfectly matches the scenario that ATF has been drilling into their heads as being an illegal straw purchase.

ATF's educational program to help FFLs recognize attempted straw purchases is geared toward somebody with the mental capacity of an 8 year old child. And if you've ever tried to train a large group of people you know that most of them only remember a fraction of the training anyway.

The main thing they tell FFLs to look out for is one person shopping for a gun and another person paying for the gun. That's the only message that sticks in the minds of many FFLs.

bigcalidave
02-01-2012, 11:17 PM
It is NOT a straw purchase when you buy something as a gift for someone who is allowed to have it!!!! Why is that repeated over and over and over and over...

OCArmory
02-02-2012, 8:22 AM
It is a straw purchase if you purchase it for someone who is not legally allowed to purchase it. The ATF info says nothing about the legality of owning it all they are concerned with on the FFL end is the "Purchase"

Lone_Gunman
02-02-2012, 9:35 AM
Why don't you just go to the gun store, check out the guns, have your parent say they need to think about it, and then have them come back later and buy it? Gun shops deal with looky loos all day long. They won't think a thing about someone with their kid checking out guns and coming back later.
Or even better find a shop that will let you handle the guns while you are by yourself, decide which one you want, tell them thanks for letting me have a look, and leave. Tell your parent exactly which one you would like as a gift, and that can go get it for you. I am often very specific in my gift requests, how else can you be sure you ae going to get what you want?

bigcalidave
02-02-2012, 10:10 AM
It is a straw purchase if you purchase it for someone who is not legally allowed to purchase it. The ATF info says nothing about the legality of owning it all they are concerned with on the FFL end is the "Purchase"

Let's ask the ATF then...

http://www.atf.gov/training/firearms/ffl-learning-theater/episode-4.html

"Felons, who are also prohibited from conducting a firearms transaction, will sometimes attempt to obtain guns this way, because they wouldn’t pass the NICS background check and could not truthfully fill out Form 4473. If, however, Bobby was with his father or other legal guardian, and his father was legally eligible to obtain the handgun as a gift for Bobby, his father would fill out Form 4473, undergo the NICS check, and assume legal responsibility for the transaction and the gun. Bobby’s father could truthfully complete the Form 4473 to indicate that he is the actual purchaser because he would take title to the weapon and then transfer the firearm to Bobby as a gift."