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wayneinFL
01-31-2012, 7:00 PM
Hello. I hope this isn't the umpteenth thread on the issue, but it probably is. It looks like I'm traveling to the Los Angeles area for a few months for work. I travel all over the South. I'm trying to get a feel of what the situation is like over there. I've never been to CA, but from over here it looks a little left-wingy.

I've over a few threads and over the statutes, and it looks like it would be okay to keep an unloaded pistol in a locked box in a vehicle with a loaded magazine in the same box. It's not how I usually travel, but better than nothing.

Would a cop in that area give me a hard time even though it's legal? Also, is there anything else I'm not thinking of that might bite me in the butt? Restrictions on the type of ammunition or type of firearm, or magazine capacity? For example, would a Glock 22 with 15 round magazines loaded with hollowpoints be okay?

HowardW56
01-31-2012, 7:07 PM
Hello. I hope this isn't the umpteenth thread on the issue, but it probably is. It looks like I'm traveling to the Los Angeles area for a few months for work. I travel all over the South. I'm trying to get a feel of what the situation is like over there. I've never been to CA, but from over here it looks a little left-wingy.

I've over a few threads and over the statutes, and it looks like it would be okay to keep an unloaded pistol in a locked box in a vehicle with a loaded magazine in the same box. It's not how I usually travel, but better than nothing.

Would a cop in that area give me a hard time even though it's legal? Also, is there anything else I'm not thinking of that might bite me in the butt? Restrictions on the type of ammunition or type of firearm, or magazine capacity? For example, would a Glock 22 with 15 round magazines loaded with hollowpoints be okay?

Yes it is OK to keep an unloaded pistol in a locked box with a loaded magazine...

Yes, there are cops who will give you a bad time for it, if they are aware of it...

The Glock 22 is OK, but a 15 round mag is not.... 10 round mag max [subject to exceptions if the mag was possessed in Cal prior to the restriction, wouldn't apply to you].

Hollow Points are OK...

paul0660
01-31-2012, 7:13 PM
:troll:

KarLorian
01-31-2012, 7:27 PM
I've over a few threads and over the statutes, and it looks like it would be okay to keep an unloaded pistol in a locked box in a vehicle with a loaded magazine in the same box. It's not how I usually travel, but better than nothing.

You're good with that method just about anywhere with one major exception being any US Post Office property.

Would a cop in that area give me a hard time even though it's legal?

Anything is possible, some cops won't have an issue and others could freak out and call in SWAT.

The biggest thing to remember when dealing with state, county, or city police is that you are not required to be honest with them. The Feds are another matter and you are required to tell them the truth.

But if you are stopped by LAPD for instance and they ask a fishing question like: "Are there any weapons in the vehicle?" You can just say no.

If you do admit to having a firearm, they have the authority to verify that it is unloaded(know as an "E" check due to the section of the law with this statute).

Also, is there anything else I'm not thinking of that might bite me in the butt? Restrictions on the type of ammunition or type of firearm, or magazine capacity? For example, would a Glock 22 with 15 round magazines loaded with hollowpoints be okay?

Bringing a magazine of 10+ rounds into the state is a violation of CA law under almost all circumstances. You would likely be arrested and likely charged with importation of a LCM if they were to discover a "Large Capacity Magazine" since you are a visitor of the state and couldn't prove that you acquired it in CA before 2000.


Basically, you would be fine to store your gun an a locked box with loaded magazines that are not in the mag-well of the gun. You cannot bring any magazines that have a capacity of more than ten rounds.





A note to the others on this board. If anything I have posted is incorrect, please correct me and I will fix my post.

firemark - Thanks for the correction, I thought the quotes implied the incorrectness of the wording, but I will fix for clarity.

Firemark
01-31-2012, 7:40 PM
You're good with that method just about anywhere with one major exception being any US Post Office property.



Anything is possible, some cops won't have an issue and others could freak out and call in SWAT.

The biggest thing to remember when dealing with state, county, or city police is that you are not required to be honest with them. The Feds are another matter and you are required to tell them the truth.

But if you are stopped by LAPD for instance and they ask a fishing question like: "Are there any weapons in the vehicle?" You can just say no.

If you do admit to having a firearm, they have the "right" authority to verify that it is unloaded(know as an "E" check due to the section of the law with this statute).



Bringing a magazine of 10+ rounds into the state is a violation of CA law under almost all circumstances. You would likely be arrested and likely charged with importation of a LCM if they were to discover a "Large Capacity Magazine" since you are a visitor of the state and couldn't prove that you acquired it in CA before 2000.


Basically, you would be fine to store your gun an a locked box with loaded magazines that are not in the mag-well of the gun. You cannot bring any magazines that have a capacity of more than ten rounds.





A note to the others on this board. If anything I have posted is incorrect, please correct me and I will fix my post.

Fixed it for you. LE do not have 'rights' they only have authority. Rights are reserved for the people.

Kavey
02-01-2012, 1:26 AM
When I first put together an OLL AR with a bullet button a few years ago, I was a little concerned about the possibility of having a magazine labeled as a "ten round magazine" that could actually hold eleven rounds.

My fear was that some LEO would discover the magazine's extra capacity before I was even aware of it because he just might have a much stronger thumb than me.

Solution: The Nine Round magazine!

I have a bunch made by Colt that I purchased from Brownell's. I can assure you that any LEO who tries to push eleven rounds into one of these Colt nine rounder's is only going to wreck his thumb.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=4399/Product/MAGAZINE-9-ROUND-MATTE-BLUE

____________________________

I'm not a lawyer, but I have seen every episode of Judge Judy.

A-J
02-01-2012, 7:09 AM
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Transporting

Lugiahua
02-01-2012, 9:47 AM
You're good with that method just about anywhere with one major exception being any US Post Office property.


And on college campus, I believe that you can't enter a college campus ground with a handgun in CA (even locked, I know it's ridiculous) without a LTC or permit from the school authority.

SilverTauron
02-01-2012, 11:38 AM
Hello. I hope this isn't the umpteenth thread on the issue, but it probably is. It looks like I'm traveling to the Los Angeles area for a few months for work. I travel all over the South. I'm trying to get a feel of what the situation is like over there. I've never been to CA, but from over here it looks a little left-wingy.

I've over a few threads and over the statutes, and it looks like it would be okay to keep an unloaded pistol in a locked box in a vehicle with a loaded magazine in the same box. It's not how I usually travel, but better than nothing.

Would a cop in that area give me a hard time even though it's legal? Also, is there anything else I'm not thinking of that might bite me in the butt? Restrictions on the type of ammunition or type of firearm, or magazine capacity? For example, would a Glock 22 with 15 round magazines loaded with hollowpoints be okay?

Doing some casual googling reveals that while it is legal for you to accomplish what you propose , with the exception of the 15 round magazine, you are still at risk of being arrested should the police suspect you have a gun in your possession. Its unloaded, which means the punitive aspects won't apply , but the officer responding can still arrest you if they believe the gun is loaded. To wit, the relevant text of California Penal Code Section 12031:

(5) (A) Notwithstanding paragraphs (2) and (3) of subdivision (a)
of Section 836, a peace officer may make an arrest without a warrant:
(i) When the person arrested has violated this section, although
not in the officer's presence.
(ii) Whenever the officer has reasonable cause to believe that the
person to be arrested has violated this section, whether or not this
section has, in fact, been violated.
(B) A peace officer may arrest a person for a violation of
subparagraph (F) of paragraph (2), if the peace officer has probable
cause to believe that the person is carrying a loaded handgun in
violation of this section and that person is not listed with the
Department of Justice pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) of
Section 11106 as the registered owner of that handgun.


This looks like a situation where you may beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride. As someone who lived in a "Gun Free" metropolis similar to Los Angeles in many respects, count on being tossed in the squad car the moment an officer finds out you have a gun in the vehicle. Before you can open your mouth to say "its unloaded- " you will be in cuffs and rolling downtown.

If you're lucky and the officer is having a good day he or she may run your profile and decide to let you on your way sans Glock, which will remain in their hands until you jump through their DOJ's hoops to have your weapon released to you.


Not saying you shouldn't take steps to defend yourself, but here's the risks laid out. Hopefully someone else can chime in here with firsthand knowledge of how Los Angeles' finest will handle encountering a citizen legally possessing an unloaded gun in their vehicle.

Decoligny
02-01-2012, 11:46 AM
As someone who lived in a "Gun Free" metropolis similar to Los Angeles in many respects, count on being tossed in the squad car the moment an officer finds out you have a gun in the vehicle. Before you can open your mouth to say "its unloaded- " you will be in cuffs and rolling downtown.


This is where you learn to keep your mouth shut.

If the officer asks, "Do you have any weapons in the car?", do what Nancy Reagan recommended "Just Say NO!"

It is not illegal to lie to a police officer.

The "Reasonable Suspiscion" referred to in the PC is commonly referred to as Reaonable Articulable Suspiscion", and the cop has to have something to base his suspiscion on. If you have a locking briefcase on the seat next to you, and he asks to look inside, simply say, "It contains confidential material which you have no reason to look at, please come back when you have a warrant."

I actually suggest getting a highly visible locking case with GLOCK and BARETTA stickers all over it, and lock your lunch inside of it. Keep your gun locked in something that doesn't look like a gun case. If the officer insists upon looking in the gun case, hand it to him and give him the key. Tell him to try his best not to bruise the lettuce on your sandwich.

curtisfong
02-01-2012, 12:17 PM
I am not in the habit of lying to cops. It generally isn't a good idea, and if you are a bad liar like me, a good cop will sense it, putting him automatically on the "something is up" alert status.

Bottom line: you can't transport a gun without potentially having your rights violated. Period. The 4th amendment is non-functional for CA gun owners for all intents and purposes.

wayneinFL
02-01-2012, 7:05 PM
I appreciate the responses. I've found a lot of help on regional forums when traveling, and the best thing about this type of feedback is that it gives you a feel for what's actually happening in that area. I can research statutes all day long, case law is harder to find. But input on the way the laws are actually being enforced is invaluable.

California must be getting pretty bad if people are afraid to tell cops that they have an UNLOADED gun LOCKED in a case. With a few exceptions, cops are usually pretty nonchalant about the citizenry being armed in our region. Sounds like they're pretty skittish over there. I'd better be discreet about it.

Thanks, guys.

wayneinFL
02-22-2012, 8:34 PM
Well, it seems this job is going to take longer than I thought. About ready to toss a wrench into a power bay just to get out of here.

Just to verify information I've seen on this forum and in other sources:

No way for a non-resident to carry with an out of state permit.
No way for an out of state resident to get a California permit.
No way for an out of state resident to register a firearm.
Correct?

How long would someone have to live in CA before he would be considered a resident for the purposes of a LTC? Or is that up to the law enforcement agency accepting the application?

What would be the best LE agency to apply to in the Los Angeles area?

:troll:

Why would someone think that?

Librarian
02-22-2012, 8:58 PM
Well, it seems this job is going to take longer than I thought. About ready to toss a wrench into a power bay just to get out of here.

Just to verify information I've seen on this forum and in other sources:

No way for a non-resident to carry with an out of state permit.
No way for an out of state resident to get a California permit.
No way for an out of state resident to register a firearm.
Correct?

How long would someone have to live in CA before he would be considered a resident for the purposes of a LTC? Or is that up to the law enforcement agency accepting the application?

What would be the best LE agency to apply to in the Los Angeles area?

In Los Angeles?

For 7,416,397 adult residents, all of Los Angeles County and all the cities in it, there are 220 civilian LTC issued as of last September.

At the moment, applying in Los Angeles will not be successful.

wayneinFL
02-23-2012, 10:51 AM
Let me rephrase that.

What municipality NEAR Los Angeles is the best about issuing permits?

mej16489
02-23-2012, 11:59 AM
Let me rephrase that.

What municipality NEAR Los Angeles is the best about issuing permits?

Kern, Riverside & San Bernadino Counties.

I think SB illegally requires 1 year residence before they will accept an application. No idea on the others.

Glock22Fan
02-23-2012, 12:19 PM
Let me rephrase that.

What municipality NEAR Los Angeles is the best about issuing permits?

Kern County, just to the north. Pretty much shall issue, BUT, as with all CCW's in California, you actually do have to live in the county (or city, if applying to the city Police) to get one. Usually six months is the accepted period.

Don'cha just love these residency limits? "Ah, I see you have lived here a year, and you are still alive. I guess you don't really need a CCW that badly after all!"

wildhawker
02-23-2012, 12:27 PM
Kern County, just to the north. Pretty much shall issue, BUT, as with all CCW's in California, you actually do have to live in the county (or city, if applying to the city Police) to get one. Usually six months is the accepted period.

Don'cha just love these residency limits? "Ah, I see you have lived here a year, and you are still alive. I guess you don't really need a CCW that badly after all!"

Residency requirements (beyond that going to actual domicile) are unlawful and will be a focus of litigation very soon.

-Brandon

Glock22Fan
02-23-2012, 12:38 PM
Residency requirements (beyond that going to actual domicile) are unlawful and will be a focus of litigation very soon.

-Brandon

That's indeed true. But, in the meantime, the OP is stuck with them.