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View Full Version : Is the gun control battle heating up in our favor or is it the same battle?


camron882
01-31-2012, 2:54 PM
so i read all the time on here how bills are being proposed and i know the CGF is fighting the good fight (the right way). it seems like we are making headway in a sense of getting together the ammo we need to fire back about carry laws and the rosters ect. maybe some of you can shed light for me if this is just me or if it is really happening. do you think californians are finally fed up with the people in our state Gov't to do something? Thnaks for the light shed. its hard to keep up with current gun news.

curtisfong
01-31-2012, 3:16 PM
California as a whole is not fed up.

There is a minority of people who care about their rights who are pushing for change.

The civil rights movement has NEVER been about a majority being fed up over anything.

Bhobbs
01-31-2012, 3:27 PM
IMO, in CA we are still in a losing battle. It may turn around but I don't think anytime soon.

vincewarde
01-31-2012, 3:53 PM
Here is a basic sketch of the gun control situation in the US:

1) Federally gun control is dead. Stuff gets introduced in Congress but gets nowhere because of bipartisan opposition. Even after the Gifford's shooting anti-gun rights advocates could not advance even comparatively modest bills. In contrast, 30 years ago this might have resulted in major gun control laws being passed.

2) In most states, gun control is even deader. 41 of 50 states are shall issue or no permit required for concealed carry. 49 states now have some form of legal concealed carry. In 80% + of states, gun control is flat out impossible to pass.

3) In the courts, we are winning where it counts. Typically, we loose at the lower court level, but we win at the applet court level or in the Supreme Court. Two huge wins in the high court still need to be fleshed out as to the extent of the right the 2nd Amendment protects - but it looks very good at this point.

4) In California, we have also won some critical victories in the courts and we may win more in the near future. Perhaps most notable was the invalidation of AB932, which would have made buying ammo much harder. The replacement bill was then vetoed by Gov. Brown.

5) Most California lawmakers are in denial - they still think that the can place major restrictions on firearms rights. So, the laws keep on getting passed and signed - some after they have been ruled to be unconstitutional by courts in other jurisdictions. It's a very safe bet that most of these laws will be invalidated by future Supreme Court rulings.

Gun control can be compared to institutional racism. Those opposed to gun rights are trying very hard to keep the status quo or even advance their cause - but they will lose in the end. If you compare the gun rights movement to the civil rights movement, we are somewhere in the late 1950's to the early 1960's. We have won all the critical legal battles, but they need to be enforced.

IMHO we have never been in a better place in my lifetime - and I am almost 60!

CAL.BAR
01-31-2012, 3:57 PM
IMO, in CA we are still in a losing battle. It may turn around but I don't think anytime soon.

Yep - that's the fact. CA has NEVER gone backward on the inexorable march towards disarmament. NO State gun laws have been rolled back willingly by the Legislature. The best we have ever done is to pick off the occasionally poorly written law (like the ammo ban). Hell we STILL can't even order ammo in LA and other counties.

Look at the last 25 years in CA we have LOST named AW's (all the best ones)
AW's by features, many pistols not on "the list" and open carry. the record speaks for itself. We are only a few "nut job shootouts" from even more bans.

And this is not just CA. In real "red type" states like WI, MI and others, anti gun bills were passed (or even narrowly defeated). While "we" have made some progress in some states, there are few rollbacks or permanent victories. As out population grows and open space vanishes, so will unfettered gun use and ownership. (perhaps a generation or two).

bulgron
01-31-2012, 4:29 PM
And this is not just CA. In real "red type" states like WI, MI and others, anti gun bills were passed (or even narrowly defeated). While "we" have made some progress in some states, there are few rollbacks or permanent victories. As out population grows and open space vanishes, so will unfettered gun use and ownership. (perhaps a generation or two).

I think you're being too pessimistic. For example, what anti-gun bill was passed, or almost passed, in WI? They just signed shall-issue CCW into law, after all. That's a major win for our side.

As for the loss of the wide open spaces, this is why CCW is so critical to our gun rights. It used to be that hunting was what drove people to care about guns, but as hunting fall out of favor with the wider population, we need some other gun-related activity that keeps the gun culture alive in the US. CCW is something that people can do even in crowded urban areas, and it leads to training, which leads to the shooting sports, all of which helps to normalize gun ownership.

So insofar as CCW is embraced in 41 of 50 states, I think we're doing great, and I think the future looks bright. However, here in CA, I think the future looks difficult and depressing. (And I'm not just saying that in regards to gun ownership either.) Even so, I do think that eventually we will win our gun rights back in this state. However, my 'eventually' is measured in decades whereas some around here talk as if it's going to happen next year.

camron882
01-31-2012, 6:04 PM
i feel like we are headed in the right direction and individual counties are doing the right things minus LA, SF, SD. i like asking on here how we are doing just cause i only see so much and you all are very informed....i appriciate all you all do for our rights, although being Military i hate that i cant have a CCW....until i move back to fres-YES anyways