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View Full Version : Pettion to repeal penal code section 30515


fatsteve
01-29-2012, 6:54 PM
http://www.change.org/petitions/california-penal-code-30515-repeal-the-ban-on-firearms-labeled-assault-weapons

Hey guys, this is the e I metniond from the Lets fix our gun laws thread. The hard copy is soon to follow.

Thelaststand
01-29-2012, 7:08 PM
http://www.change.org/petitions/california-penal-code-30515-repeal-the-ban-on-firearms-labeled-assault-weapons

Hey guys, this is the e I metniond from the Lets fix our gun laws thread. The hard copy is soon to follow.

I wouldn't legitimize gun bans by worrying about how lethal a weapon is. Lethality, firepower, size, looks, function and caliber are not acceptable reasons to ban a firearm and by claiming that the characteristics of the guns that they ban do not change lethality is the same thing as giving in and saying lethality is a proper excuse to ban a firearm. I would stick to discussing this in terms of function (the lack of a difference in function) and never even acknowledge lethality as part of the issue.

fatsteve
01-29-2012, 7:18 PM
I would agree, but I wrpote this up with a couple friends, and they viewd it as an important issue to adress

radioman
01-29-2012, 7:58 PM
I signed it along with my wife and youngest son

tonelar
01-29-2012, 8:01 PM
Is this a signature drive to get a ballot initiative on the next election?

fatsteve
01-29-2012, 8:24 PM
The pettion is more to show that the people want the section of the penal code removed. How it comes to be removed is up to the discretion of our represetatives

tonelar
01-29-2012, 8:56 PM
The pettion is more to show that the people want the section of the penal code removed. How it comes to be removed is up to the discretion of our represetatives

Gotta hand it to you. I admire your optimism. I'ill sign this, even though I know it isn't going anywhere.

Norcal Industries
01-29-2012, 8:56 PM
done.

bwiese
01-29-2012, 9:07 PM
Nobody listens to this online petition crap.

I almost think this online petition system is intentionally implemented by opponents such that people actually think they've done some valid work and go to bed smug & satisfied even though they've done zilch.

Banging your head on the wall to get a big bruise, and then getting a news story why, might actually get better traction.

fatsteve
01-31-2012, 5:23 PM
Wow, the optomisim is overwheliming here.

It may not be the most effective route, but it beats sitting in a chair, wating for something. But hey, its 20 seconds to sign, and its a start. Im setting up a Serious pettion through the local court for a ballot initiative to repeal 30515, this is more to hype it, and Hey, 100 people sigining something that says I dissagree with a policy is still 100 concerned citiczens, dont sink the boat before it leaves port guys.

HowardW56
01-31-2012, 5:44 PM
If it makes you feel good, do it....

Don't hold your breath waiting for results...

keneva
01-31-2012, 5:51 PM
Signed.

fatsteve
01-31-2012, 9:38 PM
Every signature is atleast proof we dont aprove of the law, even if it fails to kill 30515, it'll drag it to the light

CHS
02-01-2012, 8:03 AM
The absolute best thing you can do is to donate money to the NRA, the CGF, and the SAF.

Your petition won't change a thing and you're only advertising it to people who are ALREADY concerned about the issue and who ALREADY donate money to the NRA, CGF, and SAF.

Fyathyrio
02-01-2012, 8:12 AM
I would agree, but I wrpote this up with a couple friends, and they viewd it as an important issue to adress

Would these friends happen to be experienced 2A civil rights lawyers with vast federal appeals and supreme court experience? If not, I'll stick with the winning team.

paul0660
02-01-2012, 8:19 AM
I just hope a spellcheck was in play.

JeffCinSac
02-01-2012, 8:27 AM
Tilting at windmills.

HowardW56
02-01-2012, 8:29 AM
Would these friends happen to be experienced 2A civil rights lawyers with vast federal appeals and supreme court experience? If not, I'll stick with the winning team.

:D:43::D

Bruce
02-01-2012, 8:35 AM
I just hope a spellcheck was in play.

Ditto ;)

Bruce
02-01-2012, 8:51 AM
You might want reconsider the wording, Steven(Stevenpunisher?). It would give you better credibility in the RKBA fight.
"My name is Steven, I'm a wee bit crazy, little Scottish, little German, lot of Polish, about 6 feet tall, around 240 pounds. I have been shooting shotguns since i was 8 and could shoot in the Olympics if i felt like it. I like to fight, tell stories, and bother people. So welcome to my page"
...Steven Brajcki's Facebook page

Decoligny
02-01-2012, 9:42 AM
Wow, the optomisim is overwheliming here.

It may not be the most effective route, but it beats sitting in a chair, wating for something. But hey, its 20 seconds to sign, and its a start. Im setting up a Serious pettion through the local court for a ballot initiative to repeal 30515, this is more to hype it, and Hey, 100 people sigining something that says I dissagree with a policy is still 100 concerned citiczens, dont sink the boat before it leaves port guys.

When the boat is designed with a screen door in the bottom, we don't have to sink it, because it won't leave port.

Do you have the funds raised to hire the signature gatherers?

I don't think there has ever been a ballot initiative that collected enough signature to even make it on the ballot without someone having to spend tens of thousands of dollars on signature gatherers.

Even if this did make it on the ballot, there are way too many anti-gun VOTERS in California for it to ever pass.

The only truly EFFECTIVE method of getting unconstitutional laws off the books is through the courts. Repealing a law just sets up the playing field for the legislature to pass a revised law that does almost exactly the same thing.

fatsteve
02-01-2012, 9:19 PM
You might want reconsider the wording, Steven(Stevenpunisher?). It would give you better credibility in the RKBA fight.
"My name is Steven, I'm a wee bit crazy, little Scottish, little German, lot of Polish, about 6 feet tall, around 240 pounds. I have been shooting shotguns since i was 8 and could shoot in the Olympics if i felt like it. I like to fight, tell stories, and bother people. So welcome to my page"
...Steven Brajcki's Facebook page

yea, I may change some of that. Oh well, thats what you see on peoples profile when they havent updated it since they were 16. But yea, i may revise that a bit, and I will be the first to admit, i am not a spelling b champion, but Im working on it.

fatsteve
02-01-2012, 9:22 PM
The absolute best thing you can do is to donate money to the NRA, the CGF, and the SAF.

Your petition won't change a thing and you're only advertising it to people who are ALREADY concerned about the issue and who ALREADY donate money to the NRA, CGF, and SAF.

For the web one that is true, But I plan to get the real, legal pettion in ranges and shops, and in front of as many malls as I can possibly do. If i had unlimited money, I would donate, but this is the best I can do with the means at my disopsal

wildhawker
02-01-2012, 9:30 PM
For the web one that is true, But I plan to get the real, legal pettion in ranges and shops, and in front of as many malls as I can possibly do. If i had unlimited money, I would donate, but this is the best I can do with the means at my disopsal

Would you consider doing actual productive work or is tilting at windmills a passion?

If you need ideas, see this stickied thread at the top of this forum (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=362574).

-Brandon

fatsteve
02-01-2012, 9:37 PM
[QUOTE=wildhawker;7961686]Would you consider doing actual productive work or is tilting at windmills a passion?


No, I plan to help the fight any way I can, if there is a place nearby I will join the good fight right there, but lets not look at this like it is dead in the water! It may work! I mean hell, does any harm come from pettioning your government for a redress of grievances? I plan to help anything thats pro second amendment, I'm just creating another path to get our rights back.

wildhawker
02-01-2012, 9:41 PM
Petitions are not the way to win back rights in California. Indeed, they do little except consume resources better directed to productivity, and can actually be harmful. "Doing something" is often worse than "doing nothing". Primum non nocere.

Let me ask you this: do you demand that your employees be "busy" or "productive"? How would you translate your answer into the realm of strategic civil rights efforts?

-Brandon

fatsteve
02-01-2012, 9:47 PM
I see your point, and I agree non action can be more stratigicly Sound than wasted effort. However you can not deny, that if a pettion were to get enough support that the local represetnatives were at risk of loosing votes over it, it would have a good chance of getting some of our rights back. Some of them it will be a while. I cant see the High capacity law being overturned for a while, but a law that says if the stock makes the gun look scarry its an assualt weapon i can see dying over night in the face of overwhelming oppostion from the public.

wildhawker
02-01-2012, 9:59 PM
There's a saying: "if my aunt had a dick, she'd be my uncle." California's politics are what they are, and these issues will not be affected by ballot prop.

Understanding how to operate a backhoe is only part of the way to actually building a bridge. You might consider crafting engineered plans, or, maybe, joining a crew of competent people who already have bridges in progress. We can always use more help, but bad efforts take away good time we could be spending on productive tasks and instead makes us have to mitigate damages.

-Brandon

fatsteve
02-01-2012, 10:06 PM
And I plan to help with the works in progress as well. The pettion though wont hurt anything. If it gains enough momentom, we may be able to change some minds, and that could be verry benafical for all of us.

CHS
02-01-2012, 10:08 PM
but a law that says if the stock makes the gun look scarry its an assualt weapon i can see dying over night in the face of overwhelming oppostion from the public.

Please listen to Brandon. He's trying to help you be effective, like you actually want to be.

wildhawker
02-01-2012, 10:09 PM
"The pettion though wont hurt anything."

That's an interesting affirmative statement, and I'd like to understand why you think so. I'd also like to understand how you plan to take 'changed minds' and employ them for actual outcome-changing efforts.

-Brandon

fatsteve
02-01-2012, 10:10 PM
Im taking what he says to heart, I do plan to help, And i would rather be slightly helpfull and not look like much than look improtant and jsut be spinning my wheels, I just thin you guys are over looking something that could really help us out here.

fatsteve
02-01-2012, 10:14 PM
I do not belive it could hurt our current situation, seing as the minimal effort of leaving a piece of paper in a gun shop, or having an electronic pettion that you can sign in seconds will take any serious dedicated people or rescourses from the cause. If I am not seing something here, please do tell me. And Like i have said, this is only the begining, ill get my hands in as much of this muck as I can to get our rights back

Falstaff
02-01-2012, 10:18 PM
Nobody listens to this online petition crap.

I almost think this online petition system is intentionally implemented by opponents such that people actually think they've done some valid work and go to bed smug & satisfied even though they've done zilch.

Banging your head on the wall to get a big bruise, and then getting a news story why, might actually get better traction.

The "Right People" have never seen an alternative (to them) 2nd amendment strategy they liked....it seems to me anyways, just sayin'...

wildhawker
02-01-2012, 10:38 PM
The "Right People" have never seen an alternative (to them) 2nd amendment strategy they liked....it seems to me anyways, just sayin'...

I love innovation. I also like results. However, I don't like working more to balance out problems caused by [whatever]. I also don't like to see resources going toward net-neutral to net-negative ends.

I'm asking the OP to take a thoughtful approach and truly flesh out the idea instead of running on anecdotes, limited information, and fairy dust.

We have no interest in working more or harder than necessary to achieve the desired end. (If you disagree, explain why.)

-Brandon

berto
02-01-2012, 10:54 PM
Can you collect 750,000-1,000,000 signatures?

When you realize you need to pay signature gatherers can you foot the bill (low seven figures)?

Can you fund a media campaign (mid eight figures)?

Are you prepared to deal with the consequences of handing the other side an easy victory allowing them to proclaim "the people have spoken"?

What makes you think you can get the votes from an electorate that just doesn't care about guns, gun rights, or fixing non sensical legislation?

What member of the assembly is going to be moved by your petition? There are 80 districts, how many are in play? How many can be swung by your petition?

mag360
02-01-2012, 11:12 PM
heres a petition idea, the california firearms nuisance act - this will make it perfectly legal for californias at their discretion, to shoot any firearm with a supressor aka silencer.

yayyy. Easy peasy.

CHS
02-02-2012, 7:12 AM
heres a petition idea, the california firearms nuisance act - this will make it perfectly legal for californias at their discretion, to shoot any firearm with a supressor aka silencer.

They would have to legalize suppressors first for that to be effective :)

taperxz
02-02-2012, 7:23 AM
OP is seemingly doing this from the heart and should not be persuaded from his endeavors.

To the OP, CGF staff (wildhawker, b weiss, hoffmang, and others) have been doing this "thing" you want to change for a while now.

What i'm saying is, their strategy is so far ahead of your idea, your asking to invent the wheel on this forum when the wheel has been spinning in motion for quite some time now. No slight to you at all! There are ways to help and volunteer here if you would like though. Just sayin...

Decoligny
02-02-2012, 7:36 AM
I do not belive it could hurt our current situation, seing as the minimal effort of leaving a piece of paper in a gun shop, or having an electronic pettion that you can sign in seconds will take any serious dedicated people or rescourses from the cause. If I am not seing something here, please do tell me. And Like i have said, this is only the begining, ill get my hands in as much of this muck as I can to get our rights back

You really don't understand the actual process of getting the signatures required to put a proposition on the ballot, do you?

It is not simply a matter of gathering up enough signatures of a long period of time.

You first need to write the proposed legislation. Once you pay the $200.00 fee, and submit the proposition, you will then have to draft the official petition. It must be printed using the correct font, on the correct size paper, and the signatures have to be real live pen and ink signatures on real paper. That means you have to come up with the money to print out the petitions. Let's start low and estimate $0.01 per copy. That means you need to come up with about $15,000 just to print the official petitions.

Once you have the petitions approved, you have a limited amount of time (150 days) to come up with approximately 860,000 VALID signatures on the petition. In order to get 860,000 VALID signatures, you will need to exceed the 860,000 number by approximately 50% in order to account for people who use fake names, and people who haven't registered to vote, and the antis who will sign as "Mickey Mouse".

That means you need approximately 1.29 MILLION signatures gathered in a 5 month period. That boils down to having to gather about 8,600 signatures every single day for 150 days.

To my knowledge this has NEVER been accomplished without the use of PAID signature gatherers.

Just where is this money going to come from?

The funds that would be required to gather these signatures could be better used to fight the battles that are currently going on in the courts systems?

OleCuss
02-02-2012, 7:40 AM
I like the idea, but I agree that it probably won't help a lot.

Volunteering to help CGF's projects would be more productive.

Seeking out pro-RKBA candidates and volunteering in their campaigns would also be helpful.

taperxz
02-02-2012, 7:43 AM
No reason to crush the OP IMHO. Advice to help CGF was given. OP has to start somewhere, I doubt Gene, Bill and Brandon were born with CGF on their minds.

Sometimes with younger people you gotta let em fail to see the light.

IVC
02-02-2012, 8:25 AM
Sometimes with younger people you gotta let em fail to see the light.

Unless is it a "riding motorcycle in heavy traffic" type of endeavor. Particularly if it is your motorcycle and you have a vested interest in it.

Fyathyrio
02-02-2012, 9:44 AM
You want a proposition, and seem to think it won't hurt to try. Please take a few minutes to read through thisw thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=520799) where a prop purported to give concealed carry in CA would have done great damage to the rights of CA gun owners. It's pretty long, but well worth the read on how the prop process can truly hurt us.

fatsteve
02-02-2012, 8:09 PM
[QUOTE=Decoligny;7963176]You really don't understand the actual process of getting the signatures required to put a proposition on the ballot, do you?

I did not understand it was as involved a proscess as it was. However i still feel a ballot initative would be a great idea. However, I am now going to put more effort into volunteering here for the works that have made more progress as you have all suggested. But I am still going to keep the Web pettion up, if only becausee it will bug the anit-gunners.

CHS
02-02-2012, 8:35 PM
I did not understand it was as involved a proscess as it was. However i still feel a ballot initative would be a great idea. However, I am now going to put more effort into volunteering here for the works that have made more progress as you have all suggested. But I am still going to keep the Web pettion up, if only becausee it will bug the anit-gunners.

This is the "liberal" state that keeps voting for a high speed rail that never happens, votes against gay rights, and you expect them to vote FOR a pro-gun measure?

I know pot is legal and all, but you're still supposed to have a valid medical reason...

motorhead
02-02-2012, 9:44 PM
i signed it but i also agree it's probably pointless. our politburo thinks they know what is best for us, WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT!

fatsteve
02-07-2012, 3:06 PM
Probably is, but hey, can't give up hope right? And CHS, thats pretty much been what has gained my California my rage for my whole life. it claims to be a liberal and progressive state that is all about liberty and change, while it cant seem to take away the rights of its people fast enough.

HowardW56
02-07-2012, 6:55 PM
http://www.change.org/petitions/california-penal-code-30515-repeal-the-ban-on-firearms-labeled-assault-weapons

Hey guys, this is the e I metniond from the Lets fix our gun laws thread. The hard copy is soon to follow.

A waste of time!

:no::no:

HowardW56
02-07-2012, 7:00 PM
http://www.change.org/petitions/california-penal-code-30515-repeal-the-ban-on-firearms-labeled-assault-weapons

Hey guys, this is the e I metniond from the Lets fix our gun laws thread. The hard copy is soon to follow.

A waste of time!

:no::no::no:

motorhead
02-07-2012, 11:27 PM
http://www.change.org/petitions/california-penal-code-30515-repeal-the-ban-on-firearms-labeled-assault-weapons

Hey guys, this is the e I metniond from the Lets fix our gun laws thread. The hard copy is soon to follow.
update! i signed this POS, now i'm getting e-mails from change, the last regarding an illegal in need of a transplant. don't think they'll like my reply. your info IS NOT confidential.:(

fatsteve
02-08-2012, 11:18 PM
yea Ill be the first to admit I did this spur of the moment, and used the first sight that seemed professional. I think you will all be more pleased when you see the paper one at your range. But hey, if you can handle spam, sign it. It if nothing else shows people are not pleased with the law. Thanks for signign the damn thing even if it dosent work.