PDA

View Full Version : 91/30 Mosin Nagant, no "r" after date. Rare? Pics added


C&Rtrader
01-29-2012, 8:51 AM
Been doing some reading (7.62x54r.net, google) but haven't found a decent answer yet.

I picked up a 91/30 that doesn't have the typical "r" (year abbreviation) after the date (1942, round, izhevsk).. anything unique or rare to that?

Thanks in advance...

pic added

Noonanda
01-29-2012, 9:01 AM
may have been ground off or forgotten, doubt it is rare. Boris just had a little too much vodka while working on the assembly like that day LOL.

I dont think it is like Coins that are "rare due to extra or forgotten markings" but I might be wrong

John Browning
01-29-2012, 10:08 AM
I've gotten a few with some weird markings (sideways serial numbers is the weirdest) and everyone tells me that is par for the course. I think the WWII Soviet idea of quality control was that if you weren't drunk enough to fall over, you could control your own quality.

Noonanda
01-29-2012, 10:24 AM
I've gotten a few with some weird markings (sideways serial numbers is the weirdest) and everyone tells me that is par for the course. I think the WWII Soviet idea of quality control was that if you weren't drunk enough to fall over, you could control your own quality.

Especially since that rifle may have been rushed to get out the door, June 21st 1941 was when Germany invaded, after that quality took a back seat to numbers

G-Man WC
01-29-2012, 10:35 AM
Post a picture of the top of the receiver with the date / markings. one of us may be able to help. -g

C&Rtrader
01-29-2012, 1:16 PM
may have been ground off or forgotten, doubt it is rare. Boris just had a little too much vodka while working on the assembly like that day LOL.

I dont think it is like Coins that are "rare due to extra or forgotten markings" but I might be wrong

That was my guy reaction, but I figured I may as well post the question.

paul0660
01-29-2012, 1:29 PM
That is a good question. I think the "r" wasn't included at some point. I have a 20's 91/30, with r, a 43 M38, no r.

G-Man WC
01-29-2012, 2:13 PM
in the Russin alphabet:
To the left of your serial is:
r (lower case) = g
W it a little tale on bottem right - ShCh
It's a low serial number. Do you have a small (SA)stamp on either side of the barrel at the receiver end? -g

C&Rtrader
01-29-2012, 2:42 PM
in the Russin alphabet:
To the left of your serial is:
r (lower case) = g
W it a little tale on bottem right - ShCh
It's a low serial number. Do you have a small (SA)stamp on either side of the barrel at the receiver end? -g

No its not a fin capture. I would be very excited if so. What resource did you use to date the serial number?

af240z
01-29-2012, 2:58 PM
r=g, g=god (not deity), god = year.

C&Rtrader
01-29-2012, 5:12 PM
After some more google reading it seems that the 1941r, 1942r, 1943r etc (yes i know its a cyrillic "g") seems to be slightly more common than not having the "r". But I can find no explanation or other verification of that.

I found the same question posted on gunboards with no conclusive answer. Surely calguns has better collective knowledge!

Anyone else have any info on this? I put an email into a buddy of mine. Still waiting for a response.

6mmintl
01-29-2012, 6:02 PM
About as rare as 0ne in 48 million $150 rifles, or the typical u.S. $100 bill

C&Rtrader
01-29-2012, 6:10 PM
About as rare as 0ne in 48 million $150 rifles, or the typical u.S. $100 bill

Not doubting you or trying to argue, but I am curious. Is that an opinion is it a fact. If it's a fact is there a reference I could read? I am curious to learn more.

Thanks!

rojocorsa
01-29-2012, 6:15 PM
Mine doesn't even have the 3 from "1943" stamped on the shank. They did it very quickly is my guess.

hypnoman
01-29-2012, 6:23 PM
Been doing some reading (7.62x54r.net, google) but haven't found a decent answer yet.

I picked up a 91/30 that doesn't have the typical "r" (year abbreviation) after the date (1942, round, izhevsk).. anything unique or rare to that?

Thanks in advance...

pic added

I am holding a 91/30, a 1942 but shows a part of the "r" the "|" part. I think it was just sloppy stamping missed the last part on the far right.

Flyin Brian
01-29-2012, 6:31 PM
Not doubting you or trying to argue, but I am curious. Is that an opinion is it a fact. If it's a fact is there a reference I could read? I am curious to learn more.

Thanks!

Last time it was only one of 33 Million, so who knows...

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=6574577&postcount=23

CDFingers
01-30-2012, 4:43 AM
1942 was a tough year for Soviet arsenals, as the Nazis threatened them all at one time or another. The 42's many times will be "rough," as workers did not take the time to make areas smooth that were just cosmetic. The "r" might be one of those things left off on that particular run.

CDFingers

G-Man WC
01-30-2012, 6:28 AM
http://7.62x54r.net/

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinCyrillic.htm

C&Rtrader
01-30-2012, 8:58 AM
http://7.62x54r.net/

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinCyrillic.htm

We know what the character means. We are trying to determine if its absence is anything of significance or not.

6mmintl
01-30-2012, 2:13 PM
Not trying to argue with you, just trying to suggest that the word " Rare" is being overused/misused on this designation or high production rate battle rifle.

Put it in the proper perspective is all im saying, the average price for Moison's are around $150 now and you are as lucky to find an unusual marked one, or an ex sniper, etc relatively easy.

Emotional value= what you think its worth but you will rarely get what you think its worth.

Collector value= what some other collector thinks it's worth but wont pay you what it's worth .

Market value= what most of the people will pay for your rifle which is usually less then what you paid.

So, just call it "unusual markings" and shoot it.

I prefer to clean off all the hysterical collectable cosmoline/dirt/grime/from my Unusual military rifles and shoot them at distance as they were meant to be.

mosinnagantm9130
01-30-2012, 11:55 PM
From 1942-44, Tula and Izhevsk (especially Izhevsk) were cranking out M/Ns as fast as they could. Some of the stampings on the barrel shank for these years are very light, and years of hard use wore down the markings even more.

Judging by your picture, I'd be surprised if that rifle ever had the "r". The year and serial number look fairly strong, and I don't see any indication of grinding in that area. I'd guess it may be a time saving measure, but YMMV.

As to rarity, I don't think it's anything rare. Unusual, yes, but not rare.

C&Rtrader
01-31-2012, 9:52 AM
From 1942-44, Tula and Izhevsk (especially Izhevsk) were cranking out M/Ns as fast as they could. Some of the stampings on the barrel shank for these years are very light, and years of hard use wore down the markings even more.

Judging by your picture, I'd be surprised if that rifle ever had the "r". The year and serial number look fairly strong, and I don't see any indication of grinding in that area. I'd guess it may be a time saving measure, but YMMV.

As to rarity, I don't think it's anything rare. Unusual, yes, but not rare.

Thanks for chiming it, I figured it was only a matter of time!

Been doing some more reading on other forums and can't seem to find a conclusive answer. Oh well. Its still a cool gun... now to see how well it shoots!